[TV] The Flash!

[RobertoCarlos]

So, do you think they'll ever address the fact the Reverse Flash running around now is the one who was supposed to become Harrison Wells? And yet the alternate timeline has Barry retaining memories of Eowells though he should never have truly existed?

Harrison wells in the new time line is a aids stricken gay cowboy from nazi occupied Germany with the super human ability of having heighten emotion just to mix it up and give the great actor Tom c a new challenge and hold his interest for another season

[Svifnymr]

So, do you think they'll ever address the fact the Reverse Flash running around now is the one who was supposed to become Harrison Wells? And yet the alternate timeline has Barry retaining memories of Eowells though he should never have truly existed?

Technically, though we saw him run off, we don't know Eobard retained his speed after that anymore than regular Eobard did. Though they routinely rewrite past scenes even without time travel, in the original he started tripping up down the street.

[frogger237]

I really hope we get off this time travel bullshit soon. Everything the badguys do is "ment to be" and anything the good guys do ends up fucking shit up. Or at least let Barry visit the real earth 1 where Eobard never fucked shit up and let him learn hes just an alternate earth created when Eobard went back in time which is why he can't change his past.

[Deleted]

Technically, though we saw him run off, we don't know Eobard retained his speed after that anymore than regular Eobard did. Though they routinely rewrite past scenes even without time travel, in the original he started tripping up down the street.

The issue there is, he brought Barry back to the time he left to create Flashpoint. So if he lost his speed, he would lose his speed in at a point after Eowells in the chronological timeline. He'd have to, for some reason, go back in time and lose his speed for the continuity to remain the same. Which appeared not to be the case. Honestly, the only way i can see this being resolved is by making Eobard a massive threat in the form that he's a paradox, meaning he can destroy Barry and people's lives while leaving himself unaffected.

[Svifnymr]

The issue there is, he brought Barry back to the time he left to create Flashpoint. So if he lost his speed, he would lose his speed in at a point after Eowells in the chronological timeline. He'd have to, for some reason, go back in time and lose his speed for the continuity to remain the same. Which appeared not to be the case. Honestly, the only way i can see this being resolved is by making Eobard a massive threat in the form that he's a paradox, meaning he can destroy Barry and people's lives while leaving himself unaffected.

The main thing is that we don't know what effects there were on Flashpoint Eobard except what we were shown. We presume that in Season1, Eobard lost his powers because he messed up the creation of the Flash. He regained his power by arranging for the creation of The Flash and increasing his speed. He didn't lose his speed right away, he ran down the street a bit and then couldn't make the jump to Time Travel.

So this time Flash goes back, stops RF by taking him forward in time. In this alternate timeline, there is still a Flash, so there is still a Speedforce, so he retains his speed. We don't know what memory flashes RF was having in the cage.

When he returns and kills Nora, he recreates the timeline where in there is no Flash until he creates him. He may have lost his super speed 50' later, off camera.

[Khime]

So much time travel speculation...

In season 1, Eddie shot himself to stop Thawne. Which means Thawne never existed, so never became the Reverse Flash, never fought the Flash, never went back in time to kill Barry, never killed Nora instead, never lost his speed, never became Harrison Wells, Season 1 as we know it never happened, Eddie never shot himself, Thawne was never erased from existence, so Season 1 did happen, so it didn't, so it did, etc. So obviously, changing time doesn't follow standard notions of cause-and-effect. Even if you make a change that undoes something, time remnants from prior timelines can continue to exist so that paradoxes don't happen.

And again, thanks to Flashpoint logic, changes you make in the past can not only have unintended consequences on the future, they can trigger totally unrelated changes that logically have nothing to do with the change you made. So the 'new' changes to the timeline (Joe and Iris not talking, Cisco in therapy, Caitlin maybe having Killer Frost powers, Julian Dorn being Barry's co-worker) might not have been directly caused by the changes to the events the night Nora was murdered, but might simply have occured due to the fact that a change happened in the past. Like in Legends of Tomorrow, when Kendra puts a note into the soldier's helmet, in the "present time" the helmet suddenly moves elsewhere in the room, even though adding the note shouldn't have caused Rip to decide at some point in the past to put it elsewhere.

Simply put, the fact that changes occurred in history can cause other changes to happen that, logically speaking, should not follow from that change. And it can even cause changes to occur before the change you made. For all we know, because of what Barry did, Joe's wife might've gotten custody of Iris a decade earlier, so Barry was raised by Joe as an only child.

[Feredir]

Looks like the changes have landed Barry in the Legends of Tomorrow, Conner Hawke timeline.

[Svifnymr]

Looks like the changes have landed Barry in the Legends of Tomorrow, Conner Hawke timeline.

Wouldn't it be funny if the changes to the current timeline weren't actually Barry's fault at all, but instead are because the Legends will have fucked up the past in their season? Don't think so, but it'd be funny.

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Preview for next episode! Jessie Quick, Speedster!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Stuff happens

and Hai Malfoy doppleganger

[Kalcheus]

Two things:

Does the city cgi look worse to anyone else when Barry is running through it during the daytime? The buildings look more obviously computer-generated/modified. That said, I got a bigger TV this summer so maybe I'm just noticing it now?

Mirror Master is working with Alchemy, right? That's how he wrote the message and how he gets into places?

[Khime]

Mirror Master is working with Alchemy, right? That's how he wrote the message and how he gets into places?

That's what I'm assuming to be the case. Doctor Alchemy isn't known for pulling off those mirror tricks on his own.

Also, I wonder if his "preparing" of this world (presumably for the event that causes the 4-part crossover, aka Invasion!) will lead him to restoring Kid Flash's powers.

Also, hello to Earth-1 Killer Frost!

[RobertoCarlos]

Ding ding ding, was correct about Iris snubbing Joe had something to do with the mother. Oh CW you old dog

[ati87]

You think that's bad, remember that Thawne's ancestor Eddie was killed back in Season 1, so he shouldn't even exist at all. (Cue the "Erasing Thawne from history somehow doesn't erase Thawne's impact on Barry's life 'cause otherwise he'd never have gotten erased, paradox, time remnant, bla bla bla.")

Why this time remnant of Thawne still has his powers after killing Nora Allen but before becoming Harrison Wells is either something that will be explained in a future episode, or else it's being handwaved away as "wibbly wobbly, speedy forcey, plot says so" reasons and we should just relax and enjoy the ride. Probably the latter, sad to say.

For the first thing:
Revere Flash exist because technically he didn't die yet, so the ''future'' version gets erased after he travels to the past, kills Wells and the events of S1 happens.

Why he still has his powers after killing Nora Allen, may be just a plot convenience but also that the ''version'' that lost his power was a different reverse flash from a different ''period'' and that the scene where we saw him losing his power in S1 was from a different ''period'' again.

Time travel plots sucks and writers in general need to stop adding time travel to their plots, its stupid and it messes up the story. Credit to blizzard in that they semi balanced time travel with a decent Legion story but that's a exception.

[Svifnymr]

Why he still has his powers after killing Nora Allen, may be just a plot convenience but also that the ''version'' that lost his power was a different reverse flash from a different ''period'' and that the scene where we saw him losing his power in S1 was from a different ''period'' again.

In original timeline, he killed Nora, ran off and then stumbled down the street because he was losing his powers. In new timeline we see him race off from the house. There's no reason to assume he kept his powers rather than stumbling further down the street, then seeking out Wells and moving things along as before. It's possible that he had his powers in that time-space only while Flash was present to give him a SpeedForce as well, and as soon as Flash returned to the present, RF lost his speed.


This episode established that the changes in the timeline had nothing to do with RF, and his "you'll see" was most likely just a reference to the errors catching up to him rather than a nefarious plan. RF seems to have a good grasp on time travel vs Zoom just trying to outrun consequences.

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Also, I wonder if his "preparing" of this world (presumably for the event that causes the 4-part crossover, aka Invasion!) will lead him to restoring Kid Flash's powers.

While they can write anything off as Flashpoint Changes, it seems odd to me that we didn't have any version of Alchemy around in other timelines to provide similar skills. I assume if he's not the crime scene guy sharing Barry's office, that some event provoked both of their presences. The timing of when the husks/ Alchemy's plan began is a bit nebulous too, did it just happen since Barry returned? They mentioned "weeks" at some point.

It also seems odd that Vibe couldn't vibe the changes to the timeline this time around, but no biggie.

Also, hello to Earth-1 Killer Frost!

Guess we'll see how that works out without Firestorm to help out.

[Jotaux]

Time travel plots sucks and writers in general need to stop adding time travel to their plots, its stupid and it messes up the story. Credit to blizzard in that they semi balanced time travel with a decent Legion story but that's a exception.

The best I've seen a show do time travel was the X-men the animated series. Which Bishop had an arm band that let him exist outside of time. He then changed the future and went back to his own time where he was chastised for not changing anything because in that timeline he was sent back to do something else.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The preparing might be for the invasion or Savitar

Good episode tho.

[IIamaKing]

will lead him to restoring Kid Flash's powers.

Im betting yes, I cant believe we only get 15 min of him in ep 1.

[Khime]

It also seems odd that Vibe couldn't vibe the changes to the timeline this time around, but no biggie.

Well, if you recall, in Season 1 he was vibe-ing an erased timeline in which he was killed. So he started having nightmares/visions of Dr. Wells killing him, which was questionable.

However, if he were to start getting glimpses of the Flashpoint or the pre-Flashpoint universes, he'd just either see himself with his brother, or himself as a billionaire, both of which he might dismiss as wishful thinking or fantasy rather than legit vibes.

Or maybe he will start getting visions of the changes Barry made, and he'll discover that Dante is dead explicitly because the Flash tried to change history. More CW drama to add to the pile!

[Feredir]

DIdnt they say you are protected from changes if you're time traveling, wouldn't he keep his powers if RF where in the wormhole in the moments it took Nora to die?

[Anastacy]

TV-Barry has better friends than he deserves.