Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[stomination]

You may be right, but I enjoyed Nostalrius more than WoD.

In MoP I mained a mistweaver and I enjoyed the expansion. But there are things you accept without really thinking about them. You get used to people randomly phasing out to grow vegetables on a farm that only they can see, to pandas and worgen being everywhere in an orcs vs humans game, to your favorite zones remaining destroyed forever because of Cata-release shock value, to horde or alliance having nothing to do with a player's identity, to nearly every race being able to pick a certain class, to paying for race changes every time your class abilities or racials change, quickly leveling alts to play FOTM, to many players having 5-10 max-leveled chars each, to battle pets, running a quick LFR for an arena trinket, to min-maxing everything possible, constantly changing talents on the spot, gear scores and elitism, achievements, people constantly armorying you, people flying around on all sorts of ridiculous mounts, instant queuing for everything and not knowing where the actual dungeon is nor caring about who you're grouped with, transmog with bright pretty colors, gold being easily obtainable or having little value, etc. Community-wise, we accept DDOSing, bots, wintrading, and fierce competition as normal. While I enjoyed some of the positive things, it's not the experience that I want anymore.

I don't care about playing a monk and treating it like an esport anymore, stressing over every gcd. I want a mystical rpg with a tight-knit community and a cohesive world that isn't littered with layers upon layers of conveniences and stylistic inconsistencies. I like walking through IF and seeing people with normal-looking armor, like a knight would wear, not 50000 glowing weapons and people idle on flying rainbow ponies and ancient Chinese dragons. Your main is your identity, your one alt is your alt. The vendors have a reason for selling white gear, because sometimes you actually buy it. Green gear means something, blue gear is amazing, epics are a miracle. Gold management is challenging and important. Hunters have a dead zone, run out of arrows, and need to feed their pets, which is realistic. Like slaise1 said, classes which use mana can easily run out of mana. Weapon skills, tiered spells, talent trees, attunements, reputation, race-based priest skills, faction-exclusive classes are interesting and fun.

It feels like an extension of the Warcraft RTS games. There is a castle surrounded by farms, lumber mills, blacksmiths, and it is orcs vs humans, aside from gnomes. You feel like you are one tiny member in a large army. Like the real world, there are empty, mystical areas like Azshara, Feathermoon, South Shore, and you enjoy being there. There is danger everywhere from the opposing faction. You are forced to be creative, social, and adjust according to a huge world.

On Nostalrius, WoW players did carry over theorycrafting, elitism, BiS-gear min maxing, and factory 15-min tribute runs which weren't around back in the day. But it is still way more fun than I had in WoD. Even if one disagrees, I feel that the distinguishing characteristics which I and others have listed do make the vanilla experience worth being made available again.

Since I have personally given Blizzard over $1500 over the years from WoW alone, I feel that I am part of the WoW community as much as, if not more than, anyone current subscribed who suggests that people like myself aim to break up the community and degenerate the player base. There are people who have quit WoW years ago who would be happy to come back for vanilla. We have all made Blizzard rich and we're all part of the community.

Well those days are gone. And all you have described is the feeling i get when i go back to play old games that I've already beaten....then after that week its gone for another 8 months or so.

And in the end fun is opinion based.

[Arenis]

I don't care about playing a monk and treating it like an esport anymore, stressing over every gcd. I want a mystical rpg with a tight-knit community and a cohesive world that isn't littered with layers upon layers of conveniences and stylistic inconsistencies. I like walking through IF and seeing people with normal-looking armor, like a knight would wear, not 50000 glowing weapons and people idle on flying rainbow ponies and ancient Chinese dragons. Your main is your identity, your one alt is your alt. The vendors have a reason for selling white gear, because sometimes you actually buy it. Green gear means something, blue gear is amazing, epics are a miracle. Gold management is challenging and important. Hunters have a dead zone, run out of arrows, and need to feed their pets, which is realistic. Like slaise1 said, classes which use mana can easily run out of mana. Weapon skills, tiered spells, talent trees, attunements, reputation, race-based priest skills, faction-exclusive classes are interesting and fun.

I agree with this particular part so incredibly much, especially the visual part.

[Kyanion]

This quote, although sarcastic and to the point, gets me to why Vanilla was a great game.

It was not the graphics, or the colorful gear, or the phasing, or the fact that it was new, or nostalgia, it was the experience.

People are forgetting what makes a game great. Sure modern wow has better physics, more convenience tools, and much better graphics. But when Vanilla was designed it was a journey. A journey that took time. The time sink helped make wow what wow was. You made friends along the way, you learned things. People who say that modern content is equal to or greater than vanilla are not being serious. Vanilla had 4x the zones of any expansion. It had tons and tons of hidden gems. Things that Legion and WoD made almost no attempt to do. Was Vanilla a serious time commitment? Sure. But it made the game great.

Content is also relative. Modern Legion players thing content is put there by developers and game designers. Back in Vanilla content was put there by the other players and the world. You could not avoid PvP and it made every zone and every class dynamic. You learned your class as well as learning how to win in pvp or avoid getting ganked. Massive world pvp events would just happen by people being in a zone and questing for mobs. So the content in Vanilla never actually stopped. It was not static. Content kept changing and kept changing because content was what the environment and other players made it to be. With the implementation of the convenience items that content was lost. Why? Because no one needed to be in the world anymore. It IS the reason that Vanilla is and always will be a better game.

O..kay? I think you totally missed my point but that is fine. What I am saying is that Nost is not the 'authentic Vanilla experience'. Vanilla in 2004 was. Not what Nost put out. Nost attempted to get as many things as they could right when they did that project but it wasn't the same. People had seen it before and done it before. The 'new' factor from 2004 wasn't there anymore. Putting out Vanilla on a later patch is a main reason why it wasn't the same experience. Guessed at information is another. Call it what you will but someone leveling on Nost on patch 1.12 or whatever they used wasn't the same Vanilla as people that played back in 2004-2005.

I also love the constant 'world pvp events' that get referenced. You DO realize that many players played on PvE realms back in Vanilla right? Nost was not even close to the norm with its balance of pvp players on its pvp realm to pve players on its pve realm.

And finally I would HOPE that a base game worked on for years had more content than an expansion. Of course it had more content to do than expansions...expansions you know expanded upon the base game.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't know you but you sound realy obnoxious mate. Also you keep using the word "buzzword" in every post you make, you sound like you learned this word today and you want to use it everytime lol not everyone is like you, not everyone plays to rush content, almost all the players are like Slaise1 that YES , they respect the world instead of rushing through everything. Also, comparing a game like WoW to Everquest :/

You don't know if all of the people that played back in 2004-2005 'respected' the game. Maybe they just you know, played the game and had fun with it. They didn't have to 'respect' it. And comparing WoW to EQ is a perfect thing to do as WoW took many things from EQ that were done right and used it in their game.

- - - Updated - - -

bc heroics were often not harder than normal 70 versions. Only if a boss has an extra ability is he harder. Otherwise they (and all the trash) are just more tedious. (some, of course, were VERY tedious)

lolwut? TBC heroics were very punishing to many groups and most people couldn't even handle them. Also look at just how FEW boss mechanics there were back then...so one extra ability or a change on how one worked was quite difficult for many groups to handle.

- - - Updated - - -

Since I have personally given Blizzard over $1500 over the years from WoW alone, I feel that I am part of the WoW community as much as, if not more than, anyone current subscribed who suggests that people like myself aim to break up the community and degenerate the player base. There are people who have quit WoW years ago who would be happy to come back for vanilla. We have all made Blizzard rich and we're all part of the community.

So because you spent $1500 your opinion matters more? Well I spent more than you and I think that opinion is nuts. And guess what there are people who have quit WoW years ago and who would NOT want to come back for Vanilla. See? I can throw around the same stuff.

[Shridevi]

So because you spent $1500 your opinion matters more? Well I spent more than you and I think that opinion is nuts. And guess what there are people who have quit WoW years ago and who would NOT want to come back for Vanilla. See? I can throw around the same stuff.

That's not what I said. We're not invaders to your game, it's our game too.

[Molis]

But come on! It was the authentic Vanilla experience!

They want it both ways. The Vanilla questing & raids, and the instant gratification of WoD.

5 tries at Ragnaros is not the Legacy experience. Maybe 5 weeks?

And wait until they realize only Warriors can tank and if you have a healing spec....guess what you are healing.


You think you do but you dont.

[Eleccybubb]

They want it both ways. The Vanilla questing & raids, and the instant gratification of WoD.

5 tries at Ragnaros is not the Legacy experience. Maybe 5 weeks?

And wait until they realize only Warriors can tank and if you have a healing spec....guess what you are healing.


You think you do but you dont.

Indeed make up your minds I say. You want Vanilla cool accept the mess it was. You want an easier and more friendly experience then retail is right there.

[Goondicker]

They want it both ways. The Vanilla questing & raids, and the instant gratification of WoD.

5 tries at Ragnaros is not the Legacy experience. Maybe 5 weeks?

And wait until they realize only Warriors can tank and if you have a healing spec....guess what you are healing.


You think you do but you dont.

The vast majority of legacy players actually want that, though. (No instant gratification, I mean.) The bad with the good - so long as it's an authentic experience of a Vanilla server.

People who played on Nostalrius (for instance) knew that having 1 tank class was sub-optimal. They knew that if you had a healing spec, you would be forced into healing. And that's the way they wanted it.

[Kyanion]

That's not what I said. We're not invaders to your game, it's our game too.

A private server isn't what I consider 'our' game.

- - - Updated - - -

The vast majority of legacy players actually want that, though. (No instant gratification, I mean.) The bad with the good - so long as it's an authentic experience of a Vanilla server.

People who played on Nostalrius (for instance) knew that having 1 tank class was sub-optimal. They knew that if you had a healing spec, you would be forced into healing. And that's the way they wanted it.

Yes but which 'authentic' experience? You guys could never decide on it. Some people want it to start from day 1 and patch naturally. Some people want it on 1.12 and have all the raids open which I find funny as hell. Raids and content would be smashed with all the bug fixes throughout vanilla, some class changes and talent changes and the honor gear.

Some of you want updated changes to classes so other classes can tank. Some want it to stay as is thus all tanks are warriors. Some of the Nost people want the Nost style Vanilla and not actual Vanilla. Welcome to the 'can of worms' theory.

- - - Updated - - -

Indeed make up your minds I say. You want Vanilla cool accept the mess it was. You want an easier and more friendly experience then retail is right there.

Yeah I don't really think they understand that Nost isn't really 'Vanilla'. It is more of a last couple months of Vanilla from retail with some tweaks.

[Coffeh]

Indeed make up your minds I say. You want Vanilla cool accept the mess it was. You want an easier and more friendly experience then retail is right there.

More people who can't accept that what you find a mess or frustrating other people might actually enjoy.

What is it about these people that makes them think 'I didn't like it, therefore you shouldn't like it!'

[Eleccybubb]

More people who can't accept that what you find a mess or frustrating other people might actually enjoy.

What is it about these people that makes them think 'I didn't like it, therefore you shouldn't like it!'

Where did I say I didn't like it? I said vanilla was a mess in certain aspects and if they go back to it accept certain things back then that quality of life wise were not the best. In the sense of talents and whatnot. It looks good for it's time but doesn't change the fact certain specs were broken or unplayable back then or the quality of life back then compared to today was awful. Never said it was frustrating either so don't put words in my mouth please. The post was in response with people who want to bring in crap like LFD, LFR and other instant gratification bullshit that does not belong in Vanilla.

[Coffeh]

Where did I say I didn't like it? I said vanilla was a mess. In the sense of talents and whatnot. It looks good for it's time but doesn't change the fact certain specs were broken or unplayable back then.

Because saying 'mess' has a negative connotation. I would say it was...raw. That's inevitable for a new game. You can nitpick over a million little things. But like I said earlier in the thread, the game had a heart and soul that it's long since lost. I'll take that over balance tweaks.

[Eleccybubb]

Because saying 'mess' has a negative connotation. I would say it was...raw. That's inevitable for a new game. You can nitpick over a million little things. But like I said earlier in the thread, the game had a heart and soul that it's long since lost. I'll take that over balance tweaks.

Mess I agree is a negative term but I meant it in terms of certain states of the game not that Vanilla was dogshite. I also meant if people want vanilla accept that mess and not instant gratification or modern QoL changes. Oh you wanna be survival as a hunter on this server? Yeah well you see it's just a broken spec that was initially melee but we never worked on so either play MM or BM or don't play hunter.

[Coffeh]

Mess I agree is a negative term but I meant it in terms of certain states of the game not that Vanilla was dogshite. I also meant if people want vanilla accept that mess and not instant gratification or modern QoL changes. Oh you wanna be survival as a hunter on this server? Yeah well you see it's just a broken spec that was initially melee but we never worked on so either play MM or BM or don't play hunter.

I think I see your problem. You're looking at Vanilla with the mindset of a Legion player. If you're going to play a vanilla server, roll back your thinking to a vanilla player as well. You can't fret over having .001% dps less than another spec, or being the absolute apex best of the best. The vast majority of players back then just played to have fun. The insane number crunching elitism hadn't really developed yet. Maybe most players can't abandon that way of thinking. That, more than anything, might be the downfall of a vanilla server.

[Goondicker]

Speak for yourself, not for the vast majority of legacy players.

I'm not speaking for anyone else. I'm telling you how it was. You don't have to like it, but that doesn't make it any less true.

[Shridevi]

Now, the question becomes: Would you play the next xpac if it had the things you listed? If the answer is no, then you just made a very strong case against Blizzard making legacy servers.

I don't think it would be possible for the next xpac to feature the things I listed. In WoD, and probably still in Legion, half the community was in a rage from the removal of flying mounts alone. It's not really fair to force things that some of us like upon millions of others.

I think they should 1) release progression legacy servers, as true to the original content as possible, starting from 1.0 and moving up until the end of BC or WoTLK. 2) They should continue releasing WoW expansions which cater to the current WoW subscribers. 3) They should start working on a next gen MMO.

[shonist]

its just like back in the days, grown ppl had too much free time to spend on the game. ill uninstall before getting home from work and have to deal with 12yo child on the trade chat.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think it would be possible for the next xpac to feature the things I listed. In WoD, and probably still in Legion, half the community was in a rage from the removal of flying mounts alone. It's not really fair to force things that some of us like upon millions of others.

I think they should 1) release progression legacy servers, as true to the original content as possible, starting from 1.0 and moving up until the end of BC or WoTLK. 2) They should continue releasing WoW expansions which cater to the current WoW subscribers. 3) They should start working on a next gen MMO.

half of the community. ???? where????

[jackofwind]

They want it both ways. The Vanilla questing & raids, and the instant gratification of WoD.

5 tries at Ragnaros is not the Legacy experience. Maybe 5 weeks?

And wait until they realize only Warriors can tank and if you have a healing spec....guess what you are healing.


You think you do but you dont.

Actually that is what many of us want.

We want SPriests to be a class that needs to throttle their output because they'll run oom in they don't, and they're only there to stack Shadow Weaving for Warlocks.
We want Warlocks, Rogues and Warriors to jump ahead in output post-AQ because they don't use finite resource systems.
We want questing to be slow and non-linear, with lost time spent travelling from place to place.
We want one token Enh shaman using Nightfall in the raid as a debuffer, not as a real DPS.
We want Hunters to be able to run out of ammo mid-raid if they're not paying attention.
We want Mages to have to sit for 8 seconds to Evocate in raids, even though that means they're losing out on DPS.
We want specs like Discipline to be essentially useless as a healing spec when compared to Holy.

We want Classic with all its idiosyncrasies, defects, and flaws.


It's not that an updated Classic-style server where class defects are all worked out and every spec is actually viable wouldn't be something pretty cool to see, but it wouldn't be Classic.

[Kyanion]

I think I see your problem. You're looking at Vanilla with the mindset of a Legion player. If you're going to play a vanilla server, roll back your thinking to a vanilla player as well. You can't fret over having .001% dps less than another spec, or being the absolute apex best of the best. The vast majority of players back then just played to have fun. The insane number crunching elitism hadn't really developed yet. Maybe most players can't abandon that way of thinking. That, more than anything, might be the downfall of a vanilla server.

Yeah and that wasn't what Nost was, otherwise raid bosses wouldn't die for the first time in less than 10 pulls.

[Oozlz]

There are about 50+ raiding guilds on snip, and about double as much casuals/ pvpers/ low level pvpers/ etc.

/thread

[McNeil]

There are about 50+ raiding guilds on snip, and about double as much casuals/ pvpers/ low level pvpers/ etc.

/thread

Thats nice and all but please don't name private servers.