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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Veganism isn't a particularly healthy option (widespread nutrient deficiencies), and the ethical arguments are rather weak in my opinion. A healthy diet includes meat, eggs, and dairy; it also includes vegetables and fruits in abundance.
    You're extremely ignorant. Please don't say shit if you don't know what you're talking about.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864

    "It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases."

    http://www.thepermanentejournal.org/...6192-diet.html

    http://i.imgur.com/Xygnetb.png

    Tons of doctors recommend plant based diets, even the President of the American College of Cardiology is a vegan.

    A plant based diet is probably the most healthy diet out there if done correctly. The myth that you need meat, eggs or dairy has been debunked, did you get that from watching TV commercials from your local dairy association? There's also ton of jacked vegans out there (I personally do powerlifting and there's tons of youtubers as evidence), no not all vegans are skinny malnourished like the stereotype would make you believe. No, meat isn't a magical thing that humans need. You can get your protein from plenty of our sources.

    "The ethical arguments are rather weak" What? If you think modern slaughterhouses are ethical then you are the ones with questionable ethical values. Especially since now the only reason to eat meat is for "muh taste, muh bacon", there's no other justifiable reason. So if you think what is happening in slaughter houses is fine just for your pleasure (taste), than yeah you have seriously shitty ethics. We don't need meat to survive, if we were in the wilderness and had to eat a steak to survive, then it would be another question.

    There's also the environmental reasons but you probably don't care either.

    It's hard to convince people since it's so ingrained in us that eating meat is the norm. I mean, back when slavery was a thing if you asked the average joe, he would tell you slavery is perfectly fine. I wouldn't be surprised if in 50 years or whatever vegan becomes the norm, because the meat industry isn't really sustainable for the environment. Plus it's growing every year. Vegan diets really are superior health wise, ethics wise and environmental wise, the evidence is there if you care to look for it, if not you can choose to.

    I hate when people make bullshit excuses and make up stuff to justify them eating meat. Honestly, just say it, you are too accustomed to it and like the taste, and are too lazy to change. No need to sound like an idiot and make shit up. For example Joe Rogan who has a problem with vegans for some reason, literally convinced himself that plants are conscious and feel pain too, so it's equally as bad to eat plants. I mean, really? People will invent the dumbest shit to justify themselves.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    I can easily feel hungry way past my caloric intake. So, me listening to my stomach would be a terrible idea.
    This probably has a lot to do with what you eat. Try eating 2500 calories of protein, like steak. I can probably eat limitless amounts of potato chips, even more calories if they are liquid carbs. Most people have some intuitive experience with this, ever get "full" while out drinking rum and coke?

    Quote Originally Posted by djar View Post
    I mean, back when slavery was a thing if you asked the average joe, he would tell you slavery is perfectly fine.
    Good god, get over yourself mate.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    Melanin levels?



    Sometimes it is.



    It is from a Germanic root word, itself from a proto-Indo European root - why the proto-Indo European speakers came up with it I don't know, but you didn't ask that question. It could have been 'wy', but we like to put superfluous letters in words.
    Ahhh kalis i now see why you ruled the Klingons for ages. your wisdom is wonderful! 'Not joking im glad to see someone actually answer shit because it feeds into

    Quote Originally Posted by Partysaurus Rex View Post
    This is really a prime example of why it is so hard to change eating habits in America.

    Because if you suggest anything that disrupts the status quo (ie the truth about meat, cheese, and fast food) you are seen as a kook.

    its not surprising really, its a defense mechanism. It allows people to ignore truth so that they can maintain a given behavior. I mean its not like any of us really deny McDonalds is not healthy, but when you begin to realize that almost all the alternatives are just as bad (even some of the ones marketed as healthy alternatives) you have a sort of panic response... well fuck what am I supposed to eat then? It's much easier to claim the propaganda and those disseminating it are crazy and bury your head in the sand.

    There are plenty of counter studies that refute these findings. Funded by the meat and dairy industry. You have to consider the source, the funding, and the motive/agenda.

    What motive does a doctor/vegan have in promoting a plant-based diet?

    What motive might the meat and dairy industry have in keeping people eating their products?

    "Food" for thought.
    As to you Rex its not surprising at all you automatically think im trying to defend something. Its your defense mechanism it allows you to ignore the trurth 'Man doesn't that sound dickish thinking youre so damn superior to everyone instead of answering the damn questions that would have answered your own shit' that youre wrong about your perceived notions of people asking why.

    I asked why to see what people would respond with it. Only ONE person that quoted me outta 4 'btw wasnt you' actually bothered to explain things and try to educate people. When 2/4 responses from people is to istantly go snarky and bitchy THAT is the exact reason why its hard to change anything in any country on this planet. People rather jump to conclusions now a days instead of ask why and give answers.

    This is exactly why i rarely try to have serious debates or actual conversations with people on this website anymore. Everyone is stuck in their own little path and has no desire to learn or explore life anymore its just My way or high way. Though man your comment really made me want to be nearly serious for a moment. Your reply though stands out as you hit everything from assumption to conspiracy theories. But just to really whack your head since i really want to hear your answer to it. Please tell me what Motive the medical industry had to cure polio?

    As for @Linadra those damn unicorns and their evil plots.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raptor With a Saber View Post
    Ahhh kalis i now see why you ruled the Klingons for ages. your wisdom is wonderful! 'Not joking im glad to see someone actually answer shit because it feeds into



    As to you Rex its not surprising at all you automatically think im trying to defend something. Its your defense mechanism it allows you to ignore the trurth 'Man doesn't that sound dickish thinking youre so damn superior to everyone instead of answering the damn questions that would have answered your own shit' that youre wrong about your perceived notions of people asking why.

    I asked why to see what people would respond with it. Only ONE person that quoted me outta 4 'btw wasnt you' actually bothered to explain things and try to educate people. When 2/4 responses from people is to istantly go snarky and bitchy THAT is the exact reason why its hard to change anything in any country on this planet. People rather jump to conclusions now a days instead of ask why and give answers.

    This is exactly why i rarely try to have serious debates or actual conversations with people on this website anymore. Everyone is stuck in their own little path and has no desire to learn or explore life anymore its just My way or high way. Though man your comment really made me want to be nearly serious for a moment. Your reply though stands out as you hit everything from assumption to conspiracy theories. But just to really whack your head since i really want to hear your answer to it. Please tell me what Motive the medical industry had to cure polio?

    As for @Linadra those damn unicorns and their evil plots.
    I'm sorry I didn't take the bait and play into your attempts to derail the thread with your "serious" questions.

    Perhaps next time I won't try to make an example out of you and just go the route the OP did and just straight up report you... lesson learned.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Afrospinach View Post
    This probably has a lot to do with what you eat. Try eating 2500 calories of protein, like steak. I can probably eat limitless amounts of potato chips, even more calories if they are liquid carbs. Most people have some intuitive experience with this, ever get "full" while out drinking rum and coke?
    Probably. The problem is that chicken and vegetables are ridiculously expensive compared to other alternatives. I can feel full under 1000 with that, but the cost is crippling here.

    I mean, just for comparison. To get close to 1000 calories with that, one needs 2 packs of chicken (400 gram) and 2 packs of veggies (500 gram). Chicken is 6.20 each, veggies about 2.80. That's 18 euros total, per day.

    Compare it to meatsauce made of minced meat, plus some other ingredients + macaroni. It costs about 5 euros, and is for two days.
    Last edited by Azadina; 2016-10-12 at 07:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  6. #46
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NicoWolf View Post
    Pretty sure there's no actual science supporting that.

    Fat people get fat because they overeat. There are no viruses that violate the laws of physics nor any condition that causes people to magically gain 20 lbs from eating a brownie. It's all excuses, fatlogic, and desperately insecure people looking for excuses to shift the blame from their own shitty choices and put it on something easy to scapegoat.

    If you eat excessive calories without exercise, you get fat. Pure and simple. Why we continue to allow such fraudulent and outright wrong information to perpetuate is beyond me. It's no different than the anti-vaxxers; fat people seize on any little thing that might suggest remotely they are not at fault for their own state of being and use that as the standard by which all fat people exist, when in fact, none of it is true.

    It isn't fatphobia at work here, its factphobia and people's desperate attempt to feel normal when they should feel ashamed of their gluttony and narcissism.
    You're wrong and you clearly didn't watch the video.

  7. #47
    Most of the thin people I know have a lot of nervous energy and doing something all the time, even when they are sitting still they move around a lot or fidget. Also since they are moving a lot they don't have much time to snack.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by djar View Post
    You're extremely ignorant. Please don't say shit if you don't know what you're talking about.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864

    "It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases."

    http://www.thepermanentejournal.org/...6192-diet.html

    http://i.imgur.com/Xygnetb.png

    Tons of doctors recommend plant based diets, even the President of the American College of Cardiology is a vegan.

    A plant based diet is probably the most healthy diet out there if done correctly. The myth that you need meat, eggs or dairy has been debunked, did you get that from watching TV commercials from your local dairy association? There's also ton of jacked vegans out there (I personally do powerlifting and there's tons of youtubers as evidence), no not all vegans are skinny malnourished like the stereotype would make you believe. No, meat isn't a magical thing that humans need. You can get your protein from plenty of our sources.

    "The ethical arguments are rather weak" What? If you think modern slaughterhouses are ethical then you are the ones with questionable ethical values. Especially since now the only reason to eat meat is for "muh taste, muh bacon", there's no other justifiable reason. So if you think what is happening in slaughter houses is fine just for your pleasure (taste), than yeah you have seriously shitty ethics. We don't need meat to survive, if we were in the wilderness and had to eat a steak to survive, then it would be another question.

    There's also the environmental reasons but you probably don't care either.

    It's hard to convince people since it's so ingrained in us that eating meat is the norm. I mean, back when slavery was a thing if you asked the average joe, he would tell you slavery is perfectly fine. I wouldn't be surprised if in 50 years or whatever vegan becomes the norm, because the meat industry isn't really sustainable for the environment. Plus it's growing every year. Vegan diets really are superior health wise, ethics wise and environmental wise, the evidence is there if you care to look for it, if not you can choose to.

    I hate when people make bullshit excuses and make up stuff to justify them eating meat. Honestly, just say it, you are too accustomed to it and like the taste, and are too lazy to change. No need to sound like an idiot and make shit up. For example Joe Rogan who has a problem with vegans for some reason, literally convinced himself that plants are conscious and feel pain too, so it's equally as bad to eat plants. I mean, really? People will invent the dumbest shit to justify themselves.
    It's hard to convince people since it's so ingrained in us that eating meat is the norm.
    Because we're omnivores, maybe? In fact, scientists believe "it’s entirely possible that without an early diet that included generous amounts of animal protein, we wouldn’t even have become human—at least not the modern, verbal, intelligent humans we are."

    A plant based diet is probably the most healthy diet out there if done correctly
    You'll need to supplement certain things on a vegan diet. Especially if you're a power lifter like you say. How do you get your B12?

    Tons of doctors recommend plant based diets
    Doctors don't learn about nutrition in med school. They get the same info as everyone else as far as diet goes.

    Joe Rogan who has a problem with vegans for some reason, literally convinced himself that plants are conscious and feel pain too
    Because maybe they are and they do?here or here.

    I respect people on vegan/vegetarian diets. It is much much healthier than the average american diet of, processed foods galore in which they compare it too. And I am in fact disgusted by modern farming practices.
    But sharing stuff pics like
    is misleading when contrasted to current studies/information. Not all animal fats are bad.

    "Studies examining the relationship between high-fat dairy consumption and metabolic health reported either an inverse or no association. Studies investigating the connection between high-fat dairy intake and diabetes or cardiovascular disease incidence were inconsistent. "
    here

    If you don't want to do the research, here's some enlightening info science has brought us:

    "Science will still support that saturated fat raises LDL cholesterol levels, which are associated with higher rates of heart disease. However, it has now been found that saturated fat also raises levels of so-called "good" HDL cholesterol, therefore they cancel each other out. What is new is that scientists have discovered there are two kinds of LDL particles: small, dense ones and large, fluffy ones. The large ones seem to be mostly harmless, and fat seems to raise those, while carbs seems to have an effect on the damaging small ones."
    Last edited by Rumfoord; 2016-10-12 at 07:34 PM.
    "....but the Universe is an awfully big place. There is room enough for an awful lot of people to be right about things and still not agree...."

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Partysaurus Rex View Post
    I'm sorry I didn't take the bait and play into your attempts to derail the thread with your "serious" questions.

    Perhaps next time I won't try to make an example out of you and just go the route the OP did and just straight up report you... lesson learned.
    Still dont get it. Rex i asked those because the answers i got show exactly why people won't try to understand things. Then how you now instantly go aggressive when shown that the majority of people would rather attack instead of learn or help is why people dont change.

    This is exactly all the point and answers everything. People dont want to admit they can possible be wrong becaue they rather just everyone accept their ideas even when shown real time evidence. But its fine i dont care just dont call an apple an orange when its clearly an apple.
    Last edited by Raptor With a Saber; 2016-10-12 at 07:33 PM. Reason: Because water isnt wet
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by djar View Post
    You're extremely ignorant. Please don't say shit if you don't know what you're talking about.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864

    "It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases."
    Keywords: Appropriately planned.

    That means a dietitian sat you down, assessed you backwards and forwards, and gave you a very strict set of dietary guidelines to follow. Veganism is inherently problematic because of a lack of variety which results in malnutrition as well as the outright absence of essential nutrients without very specific supplement that only come from animal products. A dietitian will take up the challenge of creating a very solid vegan diet (vegetarianism is far easier to manage), but will still argue against it given the difficulties that can arise.

    It's hard to convince people since it's so ingrained in us that eating meat is the norm.
    Omnivores. Its a thing we are, hence the canines and essential amino acids we need... 'cuz essential.

    The rest of the 'issues' are debatable ethics and morality concerns that are as easily dismissed as they are raised. /shrug

  11. #51
    The Undying Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djar View Post
    It's hard to convince people since it's so ingrained in us that eating meat is the norm.
    Yeah, that bloody evolution has got a lot to answer for.

    I mean, back when slavery was a thing if you asked the average joe, he would tell you slavery is perfectly fine.
    Pretty sure that slavery isn't an evolutionary trait, so your comparison is somewhat bizarre.

  12. #52
    Did we talk about bacteria in our intestines yet?

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    I can't see the video for some reason but does it address people who can't gain weight? I seriously have not gained any weight in 23 years. I hit 175 and I occasionally drop back to 170 but it never goes ahead of 175 no matter what I eat or do. All physical examinations have shown me to be in near-perfect health too.
    no offense but i hate people like you
    Member: Dragon Flight Alpha Club, Member since 7/20/22

  14. #54
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    no offense but i hate people like you
    None taken. I'm going to go have a triple bacon cheeseburger now.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Afrospinach View Post
    This probably has a lot to do with what you eat. Try eating 2500 calories of protein, like steak. I can probably eat limitless amounts of potato chips, even more calories if they are liquid carbs. Most people have some intuitive experience with this, ever get "full" while out drinking rum and coke?


    Good god, get over yourself mate.
    These are dumb challenges. I've eaten a 20oz steak 2 sides broccoli and potatoes and was still hungry for desert.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I'm calling it, Republicans will hold congress in 2018 and Trump will win again in 2020.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Fasc View Post
    Keywords: Appropriately planned.

    That means a dietitian sat you down, assessed you backwards and forwards, and gave you a very strict set of dietary guidelines to follow. Veganism is inherently problematic because of a lack of variety which results in malnutrition as well as the outright absence of essential nutrients without very specific supplement that only come from animal products. A dietitian will take up the challenge of creating a very solid vegan diet (vegetarianism is far easier to manage), but will still argue against it given the difficulties that can arise.


    Omnivores. Its a thing we are, hence the canines and essential amino acids we need... 'cuz essential.

    The rest of the 'issues' are debatable ethics and morality concerns that are as easily dismissed as they are raised. /shrug
    It's not as complicated as you think to eat a proper vegan/vegetarian diet. "Appropriately planned" could be said about any diet really... most people don't eat appropriately planned omnivorous diets. All the essential amino acids can be obtained from plant based alternatives by the way.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    Yeah, that bloody evolution has got a lot to answer for.



    Pretty sure that slavery isn't an evolutionary trait, so your comparison is somewhat bizarre.
    Fair enough but humans were hunters and gatherers, with an emphasis on gatherers. The bulk of our diet wasn't meat. We don't digest meat that well. Also, just because something is natural and our ancestors did it, doesn't necessarily mean it's the best thing to do now.

    Anyways I don't really want to get into a debate, I think we have betters things to do. I initially just wanted to reply to the guy who said vegan diets aren't healthy.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by djar View Post
    Anyways I don't really want to get into a debate, I think we have betters things to do. I initially just wanted to reply to the guy who said vegan diets aren't healthy.
    You wanted to hop on your soapbox and tell the mean old meat eaters how bad we are.

    Yeah, we know.

  18. #58
    The Undying Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djar View Post
    Fair enough but humans were hunters and gatherers, with an emphasis on gatherers. The bulk of our diet wasn't meat. We don't digest meat that well. Also, just because something is natural and our ancestors did it, doesn't necessarily mean it's the best thing to do now.
    And just because something is a new and shiny fad, it doesn't mean we should do it.

    Vegan diets require supplements, that is not a healthy balanced diet.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    tl;dw Your body gets used to being a certain weight and fights against gain/loss, for those trying to put on weight your body starts doing things like fidgeting to use up excess calories.
    Not always. Sometimes your body simply can't process things right, which results in issues that prevent putting on weight. Source: me.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    And just because something is a new and shiny fad, it doesn't mean we should do it.

    Vegan diets require supplements, that is not a healthy balanced diet.
    Vegan diets aren't a fad. Pretty sure fad diets aren't recommended by the WHO, American Dietetic Association, etc. I don't think the president of the American College of Cardiology and many other doctors would follow a "fad diet". This isn't keto or paleo.

    You don't need to supplement a vegan diet, maybe b12 but it can be obtained from sources like soy milk. Taking a b12 supplement is a good idea though since it's convenient. Guess what? The b12 you get from meat is because the animals themselves were injected/supplemented with b12. Indirectly you are using a "supplement". Most people are deficient in something and could benefit from supplementing certain things to have a balanced diet. Just because you are a meat eater doesn't make you an exception to this.

    "That is not a healthy balanced diet". According to.... your personal opinion? According to these links they are in fact very healthy and can prevent certain disease.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864
    ^please read the whole abstract
    http://www.thepermanentejournal.org/...6192-diet.html

    By the way, WHO classified processed meats as a carcinogen and red meats as probable carcinogen. Unlike the stuff you say, these claims are based off hundreds of studies reviewed by top scientists, they didn't come to these conclusions out of nowhere. Also it is associated with heart disease. Heart disease is the #1 cause of death in america and guess what? It's highly preventable with diet and exercise.

    I find it funny that if a meat eater is deficient in something or completely fucking unhealthy, no one questions that diet. If a vegan is deficient, they start calling the whole diet a fad. Hypocrisy much? Any diet can be deficient if you don't do it correctly.
    Last edited by aysatsana; 2016-10-12 at 08:56 PM.

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