Trade chat already full of carry selling

[Gadzooks]

Whatever you say. The top progression guild on my server at the time was selling carries in BWL and Naxx in trade and it was a medium-high pop server. You must have been playing on a backwater.

I was playing on Dragonblight, one of the original 20 and a high pop realm almost from day one, so yeah, not a backwater.

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I didn't ask how I asked why.

WHY is the raid done 4 weeks after it's released? Why is this the design?

Exactl;y because of what i posted - because guilds don't have to enter the raid from day one with no clue how to proceed, and wipe for 3 weeks on one boss figuring out the mechanics.

If you don't like that answer, i don't know what to tell you - especially if you're trying to imply that Blizzard is making them too easy on purpose, I'm not going down that rabbit hole.

[BergErr]

I was playing on Dragonblight, one of the original 20 and a high pop realm almost from day one, so yeah, not a backwater.

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Exactl;y because of what i posted - because guilds don't have to enter the raid from day one with no clue how to proceed, and wipe for 3 weeks on one boss figuring out the mechanics.

If you don't like that answer, i don't know what to tell you - especially if you're trying to imply that Blizzard is making them too easy on purpose, I'm not going down that rabbit hole.

Even going in blind its still only few hours to clear heroic if you know your class.
Were even easier before to learn fights because less mechanics (though most fights in EN is a joke, guess they had to cut back from WoD level of stuff).

[Lady Dragonheart]

Carries are the result of any form of content gating or difficulty scaling that includes lucrative enough rewards that people are willing to pay and accept gold for. It existed then, it exists now.

While people can (and often) blame "casual" players for wanting to and willing front gold for them, "hardcore" players are also more than willing to accommodate them, enabling them to acquire any and all lucrative items, gear, titles, pets, mounts, achievements, FoS, etc. It's not going to end, especially since Blizzard is leaning more and more into this line of gameplay for their games. This will likely become even more mainstream as more things are gated.

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Sorry but as someone who really played during vanilla I don't have such recollections. Perhaps if you do you should back them up with more than 1 line posts. And you should back up your claims because you are accusing.

Oh and even if what you say is even remotely true, it does not mean that we must continue a stupid and harmful practice 12 yrs into the game especially when it has been tested and result is that it seems to drive people away from the game.

Well, I often remember UBRS, MC, ZG, and AQ carries, both complete runs and specific bosses. People even carried for low level dungeons back then. Mara, all four SM wings, ZF, and the old ST were all popular places that people did carries. My guild did all of them often, but many others did it as well. Just because your anecdotal nostalgia doesn't recall something as obvious as people selling carries back then doesn't mean that it didn't happen, and happen often.

[znowstorm]

Supply and demand. If people want items and have gold this will always exist.

[Battlebeard]

If you wanna raid the "proper" way, do it!

If you wanna pay for boost for what ever reason, do it!


I don't see how this would be harmful in any way. Each person plays the game the way he or she likes it.

[Foj]

People got to pay for their potions and spider mounts somehow. Why is this a problem?

[Lady Dragonheart]

So because you "remember" everyone else's memories are "anecdotal nostalgia". I also seem to remember people struggling to even have 500g under their name so it would be very interesting to see what kind of excuses you come up with to convince people who weren't there that you also probably made thousand of gold.

Ofc this is where you will make new entry telling us about bots and gold buying and gold from hacked accounts right? Please spare us and stop advocating for every rotten practice that kills wow.

You're simply foolish if you think that an actual illegal action is the same as completely legal, allowed by Blizzard to the point where they are endorsing it further by articulating the game to support it even more, action. Comparing one to the other is a completely false accusation and an extreme over-exaggeration that demonstrates your flawed view on the whole matter.

Also, my notion towards pointing out "anecdotal nostalgia" is just that. You're refuting everyone that tells you that you're wrong based on your own nostalgia, talk about calling the kettle black here, but you fell for that so plainly that I couldn't have pointed out your fault clearer than you did yourself. Also, nice assumptions, I'd bet you like to assume a lot of things about other people that disagree with your blatantly false accusations as well. I'm sorry that you apparently are so emotional that you need to immediately begin tripping over logical fallacies here, but you're going to need actual proof of this "it's worse now and this didn't exist back in the day" fallacy, because it did. Carries have always been prevalent, that is simply a fact that your nostalgic mind cannot seem to overcome. They existed and have since the game's launch, ignoring that they existed only show how blind you are to your own past, if you actually played the game back then, that is.

[Fenixhart]

It is a literal pay to win situation, buy tokens with real money for in game gold use gold to buy run/gear/rewards from the top tier of the game ...

But if blizzard sold any of those same rewards, or even lower quality of rewards people would have a shit fit; I guess as long as they make their gold or even real money and not blizzard it's ok; if the company does it, they are epitome of greed and have ruined the game. Double standards.

Ofc you have people saying it's ok when they are making their profit, not so much if their hands weren't dirty. It is anti community/cooperation, it doesn't look good to most players to see lfg/chat filled with sells, it doesn't improve or support teamwork or improvement. It is purely a business transaction that gives top tier gear/items to people who put in no effort or care into the game. But sure, it's fine if you are making the profit or are buying your way through ... they are 'entitled'

You say it's pay to win but they still ahve to play the Loot Slot Machine even after paying for a carry.

So..they pay gold to do what raiders do for free.

[Stockers]

1. In my opinion goes against the spirit of the game
2. The ones giving skype links often then ask for real money
3. Pay to win; buy wow tokens > sell wow tokens > get gold > pay for boost
4. Total false sense of achievement, claiming "lol noob I've cleared mythic and you're only doing heroic"
5. Spams chat

[Dequanacus]

Im sorry Im not reading your blubber anymore. I stopped giving credit to your opinion when you stated its based on an ONE HOUR PER WEEK EXPERIENCE.

Should be pretty easy to counter my arguments then. But you haven't.

Come back when you play as much as you post and maybe we can discuss this more seriously. Right now you are just baiting arguments while not even having close to enough info about what you are talking about. Unless your sense of entitlement is such that doesn't let you understand that 1 hour per week can't be compared to 5-6 hours per day. A weekend of mine is one year of yours in wow terms. So why you continue this? You just make yourself look bad. Look around you. If it wasn't for me noone else even quotes you. Move on man.

You can stutter all you want. I put forth an argument and you can't challenge it. You were so incapable of challenging it that you responded 5+ times when every single one of my posts has been "just challenge my argument". You've tried coming up with several reasons for why you somehow don't have to come up with actual reasons for me being wrong, but you still never actually argued any of my points with reasoning. You can cry about play time all you want, that only makes you look worse for being unable to come up with an actual argument.

Go ahead, tell me how you don't care when you've continued to reply to while claiming that it was your "final" post. Continue to tell me how stupid I am and how easy it would be to argue my opinion while being completely unable to argue it and being unable to accept that you can't argue a post I shit out in five minutes.

Every time you say my opinion is easily argued, it only makes you look worse for being incapable of actually arguing it. If I'm stupid, than you're retarded.

[Phuongvi]

Lol at the people saying ¨whats the problem¨ and the people are buying this kind of crap
You're the reason this game turn to shit.

Blah blah blah in my days guild were selling Molten Core lololol
People are so desperated to get gold they are even selling NORMAL run, this is how retarded the stata of the game is.

I just hope Blizz could make LFR loot relavant again and boost it to 15 ilvl much more than WQ

When I see a guy with a mythic raid achivement mount or shit like the archimonde mount, my first question is ¨How much did it cost you ? ¨

[Tart]

People were selling carries back in Vanilla for MC, BWL and so on. It's been here since the start. It's just more advertised now.

Cant remember that tbh.

[Battlebeard]

Perhaps you should fly outside Mogushan Palace any time of the day and you would understand whats wrong. The amount of bots in and out just that one place alone is so crazy Im starting to wonder. And you know why there is bots? Because people buy gold. Why the buy gold? So they can pay for boosts. We are just discussing the "soft" carries here "key-for-carry" but raids and other modes are broken by all that.

In other words you may be the legit guy who spends time to play the AH farm their gold play as intended and your efforts are nullified due to such unfair competition. If you still feel its ok then fine by me.

I never farmed gold, like ever. I do some old raids sometimes and use the AH from time to time.

I play the game the "normal" way to the extent that I can. By the end of an expansion or a patch, where things get removed or reduced drop chance (like raid mounts). I buy anything that I miss.

I only use the game-tokens though. Maybe I need to buy 5-10 or more but it's fine as I have a nice salary.

And I am VERY VERY thankful all the boost sellers exist, or else I would never get some stuff in game.

I never done it but I would buy gold from other gold sellers, but I don't wanna risk getting banned and since Blizzard sell gold (via tokens) I rather just buy from them

[Rumex]

When you can pug 7/7hc easily there will always be sell runs. I would just wish people had another mentality and actually tried investing some time into getting better and maybe try to find or start a grp themself. The lazyness of some people is absurd and i dont think it's a good thing that you can buy a heroic clear, and you also look really fucking stupid when you join a curve grp and you dont have a fucking clue about the fights even tho you got the Curve achievement.

[Deleted]

It's pretty sad. In every PUG HC I joined, where Achievement was mandatory, at least 4-5 people are obviously completely clueless and no idea at all how a fight works, despite having the Curve achi.

[Deleted]

What's the problem though? Even in Real Life you get a lot of things by simply paying for them instead of "working" for them ...

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It's pretty sad. In every PUG HC I joined, where Achievement was mandatory, at least 4-5 people are obviously completely clueless and no idea at all how a fight works, despite having the Curve achi.

Old days were so much better, right?

Have you done ZG? Oh yes, I know all the fights, ... then you entered and ppl didn't know how to do Jeklik, even though it was very very basic and simple, but people were still running around like headless chickens when bombs came down ...

[Battlebeard]

When you can pug 7/7hc easily there will always be sell runs. I would just wish people had another mentality and actually tried investing some time into getting better and maybe try to find or start a grp themself. The lazyness of some people is absurd and i dont think it's a good thing that you can buy a heroic clear, and you also look really fucking stupid when you join a curve grp and you dont have a fucking clue about the fights even tho you got the Curve achievement.

Are we playing the same game?

I have not been able to kill a SINGLE HC boss, not even the first. The groups are so bad it's just depressing.

Done a few bosses in normal pugs, but not a chance in HC.

I have seen a few hc pugs, but they as for 870++ gear to join, and how the hell are you suppose to get into those before you cleared hc in the first place...

[Deleted]

What's the problem though? Even in Real Life you get a lot of things by simply paying for them instead of "working" for them ...

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Old days were so much better, right?

Have you done ZG? Oh yes, I know all the fights, ... then you entered and ppl didn't know how to do Jeklik, even though it was very very basic and simple, but people were still running around like headless chickens when bombs came down ...

thats why pugging raids did not even exist back in the day. they were hard and it was impossible to check who has done it before. now they're pretty easy but you still cannot be sure who actually has the achi/ knows the tactics, and who bought it for a few thousand gold. and people don't even put any effort in nowadays, just buy the achi and then expect to get carried in PUGs once they have the achi. all in all, yes, it's a way worse experience than in old times.

[Charge me Doctor]

Many of them sell it for real money which is against ToS. And it is annoying spam.

report them then. If you are annoyed by spammers - report them too. Or turn off trade chat, nothing worthwhile ever gets there

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It's pretty sad. In every PUG HC I joined, where Achievement was mandatory, at least 4-5 people are obviously completely clueless and no idea at all how a fight works, despite having the Curve achi.

at least it's not 860+ gearscore mandatory. Jeez, it's already quite some time in the expansion but i still haven't got any ring that beats my 835 crit/vers with socket, had to sell so many 860 rings at this point

[Battlebeard]

thats why pugging raids did not even exist back in the day. they were hard and it was impossible to check who has done it before. now they're pretty easy but you still cannot be sure who actually has the achi/ knows the tactics, and who bought it for a few thousand gold. and people don't even put any effort in nowadays, just buy the achi and then expect to get carried in PUGs once they have the achi. all in all, yes, it's a way worse experience than in old times.

The REAL PROBLEM is that those achievements exist in the first place, not that people buy them.

If you want to reduce this market, STOP making buyable things.

I mean achivs such as Cutting Edge and Ahead of the Curve as well as raid mounts with a 100% drop.

Let raids be about CLEARING the bosses and NOT for COLLECTING ACHIVS etc.

How many casuals are achievement and mount collectors who don't like raiding but do them to get achivs etc. I am one of them for sure.

If they stop giving every damn thing an achievement, only the people who truly care for that, will do it.

A raiders reward is to raid. Nothing more is needed. Leave collectables (mounts, achivs, pets etc etc) outside of raids.