Russia vetos UN resolution to stop bombing Sunnis in Aleppo

[Crispin]

Syria to receive 30 to 50 pantsir-S1 a/a systems from Russia.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhic9Rj3w_0

There goes US coalition airstrikes out of the window

lol, hard taking that video serious, with the fake American accent and the video game style graphics.

[Skroe]

Syria to receive 30 to 50 pantsir-S1 a/a systems from Russia.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhic9Rj3w_0

There goes US coalition airstrikes out of the window

Here's a motto for the Russian Military:

Russia, where the best offense is a medium threat level defense.


Russia is like that Starcraft II asshat who builds nothing but bunkers and missile turrets.

[Deleted]

Here's a motto for the Russian Military:

Russia, where the best offense is a medium threat level defense.


Russia is like that Starcraft II asshat who builds nothing but bunkers and missile turrets.

Ooh don't cry Skroe, maybe there are some weak nations left on this planet that you haven't attacked yet. It isn't over, you can still bully Somalia. Even though I don't know what are you going to steal from them.

[Skroe]

Ooh don't cry Skroe, maybe there are some weak nations left on this planet that you haven't attacked yet. It isn't over, you can still bully Somalia. Even though I don't know what are you going to steal from them.

Well on the topic of weak nations, we are discussing Russia.

[Deleted]

Well on the topic of weak nations, we are discussing Russia.

Funny, that was before Syria. Now you can't do anything without begging Russians first.

[Skroe]

Funny, that was before Syria. Now you can't do anything without begging Russians first.

LOL, Syria hasn't changed squat.

Syria has always ever been asymetric warfare, with the US using it as a blackhole for lots of people it doesn't like. It matters far more to Russia than the US, hence Russian investment in it and US reluctance.

I wrote this in March 2014!

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...e#post26144516

Yeah and please keep at it! We've made a wonderful black hole for you in Syria. You do realize that events in Ukraine got to the place they did, because your miniscule foreign service is so swamped with Syrian business, they lost track of what's been going on in their neighbor? I haven't wanted the US to ever strike Syria except reluctantly due to Obama running his mouth, and I was happy we ended up not. Syria costs us nothing, but it's costing you resources you can scaricely manage. You can go look at my posts from the last two years on the subject. I have been consistent: Syria is American asymetric realpolitik: Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Iran and Russia. The Syrian Civil War ensnares them all. Why should we save you from your problem?

Welcome to the trap.

Or how about 2013?
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...w#post21449682

It's been damn smart that's what it has been.

The Civil War has so weakened Syria it'll take two decades to recover from.
It's caused Iran to throw everything, including the kitchen sink, at propping up Assad. It's costing them experienced manpower and materiel. They were so desperate they mobilize Hezbollah. They've thrown so much of their limited resources and money at their Syria operation... it's been, as I wrote 30 pages ago when this got started, an incredible black hole for them. Exactly like we intended.

Humanitarian disaster aside, rushing into Syria has always been a strategic stinker. We benefited in no way. But staying out while supporting it enough to make it expensive for our enemies... now that's the smart move. And you know what it's done? It's utterly consumed... CONSUMED the Russian Foreign Policy establishment. They spend all their time on Syria now, because if they lose Syria, they lose their only naval base in the Mediterrianian. It's been a cancer for the Iranian irregular forces, keeping them occupied and sapping their strength as we move US military assets to East Asia to contain China, which is a much more important mission than anything in the Middle East. It's acted as a trap for Jihadists, who now head to Syria instead of Afghanistan.

Strategically, Syria is win-win-win-win-win for the United States and her interests. There is no downside. The absolute worst the United States gets out of it is the status quo ante, which didn't effect us at all. But the absolute best our enemies get is a Bashar el-Asad far weaker than before the war, achieved at great costs to themselves. If the war ended tomorrow and Assad won, it would still be a strategic win for the US, and a catastrophe for Russia and Iran, both of whom will spend years recovering from this in their own ways. But the war is going to keep going on, raising the costs for them.

This is the kind of stuff the US used to do and was damn good at. Well here we are again. A beautifully designed strategic trap. Obama only need arm the rebels in so far that it forces Iran to double down its investment in Assad and Russia to double down on whatever its latest mechanations are. It's like one of those games where you have one person playing to win and the other playing to prevent the other person from winning. We have a large scale international strategy version of that.

Obama should be applauded for taking his time. And he should be careful with what he's doing now. As romantic and attractive the image is, of American soliders rushing into fight evil and defend the innocent, that isn't their purpose and in this case it's strategic idiocy to do that. Doing that will mean that the US in in a situation where it can lose. Instead, we are in a position where we just have to prevent Iran and Russia from winning, which is very easy and by far the ideal strategic position to be in. This could be worse than anything they've ever faced for the Iranian Quuds Force and Hezbollah. And all it will cost is us the cost of shipping surplus weaponry.

Or how about early 2012?

Which is perfectly fine and exactly what they should be doing. I would certainly hope they're all over it. I'm sure we're all over it too.

Also Israel is just a regional power. The only world power is the United States. There is no such thing as the hyphenated superpower. If it has a hyphen, it's already B.S. public relations because the point of superpowers is to encompass every where of power (hence super... "above"). Not even China is a world power. Let's see them launch an expeditionary operation to the other side of the world and sustain it for years, and sustain a dozen aircraft carriers for a few decades before we give them that honor. There is exactly one world power and a lot of wannabes.

But really. The entire Middle East is yesterdays news. Make the black hole, let it churn and suck in everyone around it, and focus our attention elsewhere. Compared to the geopolitical competition between the US and China, the ongoing Arab drama is positively quaint. I don't mean to sound collous, but this is another way of saying we have bigger fish to fry, and our only interest in Syria should be making sure it gives our regional enemies a nasty black eye. And unless the Assad Regime has a time machine to go back a few years, that's already happening.

Events have proceeded exactly as they should have. Pottery Barn rules apply to Russia as well. It's breaking Syria wide open, and is consequently, buying it as well. This is a very good thing for the United States.

[Skroe]

Finally you admit it.
Ruining Europe is a strategic win for the US :')
Global dominance, no matter the cost! Even if it includes some terrorist attacks.

Ah yes. Heaven forbid that the 520 million person EU has to deal with a couple of million immigrants. However shall Western Civilization endure?

[nextormento]

Ah yes. Heaven forbid that the 520 million person EU has to deal with a couple of million immigrants. However shall Western Civilization endure?

I think he means the problem of people having rad political opinions.

[Deleted]

The refugees aren't the problem, it's the rise of the far right that is.
It's the split in society where people apparently think it's almost normal that politicians get stabbed and children get threatened.

A few months ago you were still saying that the US and EU interests aligned :')

The refugees are the problem because it caused people to turn to far right parties because the normal politicians handled it irresponsibly, haven't done enough to stem issues relating to refugees and are trying to label people who do not want these problems as racists.

That's what has caused the rise of the far right. Nothing else. Don't try to pin the blame on anyone else, the politicians, the refugees and the people who handwave the problems away are the ones responsible for the rise of the far right.

They were marginalized in Sweden, they didn't have enough support for the parliament even and then some idiot decides to play right into their hands by handwaving away peoples concerns and suddenly they were in the parliament and now they're on the way to becoming the 2nd biggest party in Sweden.

So, thank you so fucking much for that.

[Mafic]

The refugees are the problem because it caused people to turn to far right parties because the normal politicians handled it irresponsibly, haven't done enough to stem issues relating to refugees and are trying to label people who do not want these problems as racists.

That's what has caused the rise of the far right. Nothing else. Don't try to pin the blame on anyone else, the politicians, the refugees and the people who handwave the problems away are the ones responsible for the rise of the far right.

They were marginalized in Sweden, they didn't have enough support for the parliament even and then some idiot decides to play right into their hands by handwaving away peoples concerns and suddenly they were in the parliament and now they're on the way to becoming the 2nd biggest party in Sweden.

So, thank you so fucking much for that.

This.

But don't let the far right get too much traction. Greece learned the hard way when the Neo Fascists Golden Dawn received some power and started abusing that new found power. Greece had to smack the Golden Dawn down before it became out of control.

I hope the Swedish people can regain some sanity, but it requires acknowledging how bungled the refugee situation has become.

[Deleted]

Victim blaming I am not surprised.

The rise of the far right is the fault of the far right. That is it. There is nothing more to it.
THOSE people decided to pick up weapons against their own countrymen.

Do you even know what victim blaming means?

No, the rise of the far right is not the fault of the far right. It's the fault of people who downplayed and still downplay peoples concerns. If those people hadn't been so quick to dismiss concerns about problems relating to refugees and instead had listened to the people and handled the problems then there would have been no rise of the far right. They would still be marginalized if that had been done but instead, for some fucking stupid reason the politicians, media and people started labeling people as racists, far-right nationalists and so on for voicing their concerns. That's what caused the far right to rise. Nothing else. They had no support until people started pulling this shit.

They don't get to downplay peoples concerns and then say it's victim blaming when their dismissal of peoples concerns causes those people to turn to the far right instead. They are no victims in this, they are the ones that have caused this.

[Deleted]

Victim blaming I am not surprised.

The rise of the far right is the fault of the far right. That is it. There is nothing more to it.
THOSE people decided to pick up weapons against their own countrymen.

Incompetent leftists are responsible for the rise of the far right. Their awful ideology, their brainwashing, their "let's put some more fuel into the fire".
People want far right RATHER THAN dystopian leftists. And the far right will get rid of leftist policies once and for all. Believe me, leftists in Europe are dead. And leftist politicians will be glad if they're able to flee from Europe, because there's alternative - lamp posts.
Want to bet?

[Deleted]

Ah yes. Heaven forbid that the 520 million person EU has to deal with a couple of million immigrants. However shall Western Civilization endure?

Dumb burger.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

To quote FDR, what is now known as the P5, then called the "Four Policemen" are the "Trusteeship of the Powerful". The phrase rings true today as ever, with the addition of France (and the notable non-presence of Germany and Japan).

Periodically we hear calls for UNSC reform saying it "reflects the world of 1945 not 2015". That's mostly nonsense. The United States, Russia, the People's Republic of China (granted the original P5 was Taiwan post Chinese Civil War), France and the United Kingdom represent the all but two of the most powerful countries int he world today. To make it "truly representative" of the world's power structure, you would add Japan and Germany. But that's it. Folks who want to add say, Nigeria, or Saudi Arabia, or Brazil, miss the point of the UNSC.

The UNSC isn't supposed to be democratic. The vetos, the P5 (or a potential P7) exists because the prior system broke down because the powers of the world could not safeguard their interests.

With vetos, they can, and that prevents wars.

The truth of the matter, for the most part, Syria... Bosnia... Rwanada... Iraq... North Korea... Kashmir... Afghanistan... Libya.... so many flashpoints that are at the center of UNSC high drama don't really matter except as something that could draw the P5 into a wider conflict against each other. They're more hobbies than core purpose. The real reason the Veto exists, the real reason the P5 exists, is to reduce the risk that any of them or coalition of them launch a major war against each other.

Is it unfair if you aren't in the powerful country club. But it was powerful countries which caused the two most devastating wars in human history, twenty five years apart. The arrangement exists to make sure it doesn't happen again (and this time with nuclear weapons). So far, in that regard, it's been wildly successful.

That about sums it up.

- - - Updated - - -

Dumb burger.

Deus Vult!

[Skroe]

The refugees aren't the problem, it's the rise of the far right that is.
It's the split in society where people apparently think it's almost normal that politicians get stabbed and children get threatened.

A few months ago you were still saying that the US and EU interests aligned :')

My response to refugees and the rise of the far right (and left) in Europe from the beginning has been "man up". Fight for whats right. Europe's problem is that the moderate majority is allowing extremist forces to hijack democracy by not turning out to vote, by not pushing back.

In the US, we're about 26 days from crushing our little far right uprising. Europe should take notes.

- - - Updated - - -

Dumb burger.

As I recall, one of the Crusades... maybe it was the fourth.... involved Catholic Crusaders actually sacking Byzantium... yes... really protecting Christandom.

That entire image is like the Saturday morning cartoon version of events.

[Kellhound]

Syria to receive 30 to 50 pantsir-S1 a/a systems from Russia.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhic9Rj3w_0

There goes US coalition airstrikes out of the window

Lets see. 50 S-1s= 200 max target engagements. 120 US fighters in Turkey = ~ 480 stand-off weapons. You have a numbers issue.

[Deleted]

My response to refugees and the rise of the far right (and left) in Europe from the beginning has been "man up". Fight for whats right. Europe's problem is that the moderate majority is allowing extremist forces to hijack democracy by not turning out to vote, by not pushing back.

In the US, we're about 26 days from crushing our little far right uprising. Europe should take notes.

There was a 83%(Among the higher numbers in the world) voter participation last election here in Sweden, which resulted in the Sweden Democrats rising to almost 13%. The moderate people have gotten tired of the moderate parties handwaving of the problems and are turning to the far-right parties for a solution. It's not a problem with the extremist forces hijacking democracy, it's a problem with the moderate parties not doing enough to keep the voters and the voters fleeing in en-masse to far-right parties.

Just 2 election periods ago the Sweden Democrats were a party that didn't even have enough votes to get into the parliament and now for the next election they could become the 2nd biggest party, or even the biggest if the politicians screw up even more. These voters don't appear out of nowhere, they switched parties because the more moderate parties didn't listen to their concerns, they were always in the system just in other parties.

The rise of the far-right is not because not enough moderate people aren't voting, it's that the moderate people are abandoning the moderate parties because of their handwaving about their concerns.

[Skroe]

There was a 83% voter participation last election here in Sweden, which resulted in the Sweden Democrats rising to almost 13%. The moderate people have gotten tired of the moderate parties handwaving of the problems and are turning to the far-right parties for a solution. It's not a problem with the extremist forces hijacking democracy, it's a problem with the moderate parties not doing enough to keep the voters and the voters fleeing in en-masse to far-right parties.

Just 2 election periods ago the Sweden Democrats were a party that didn't even have enough votes to get into the parliament and now for the next election they could become the 2nd biggest party, or even the biggest if the politicians screw up even more. These voters don't appear out of nowhere, they switched parties because the more moderate parties didn't listen to their concerns, they were always in the system just in other parties.

Then they should run for office. No really. Then the moderate parties need to clean house and get those voters back.

If they can't, they don't deserve to govern. It's as simple as that. People have to take responsibility for their government. It isn't just something that happens.

[Crispin]

Dumb burger.

What ignorant nonsense is this? are we supposed to give the ME the middle finger, because lunatic christians were at war with them centuries ago? And the whole idea of them having some kind of "Invade Europe!" encoded into their DNA, is on the same stupidity level as the BS Trump is vomiting on twitter and microphones across the states.

If you really belive that we should kick Muslims into the mediterranean because they once tried to invade France, Europeans across all countries should immediately shut down their border and keep their neighbours out, because everyone have been invaded by their neighbour at some point in history.

Oh yeah, it's cute that you think Muslims have some kind of exclusive right to invade, enslave, rape and murder other nationalities and religions, practicly every european nation have done so at some point.

- - - Updated - - -

Then they should run for office. No really. Then the moderate parties need to clean house and get those voters back.

If they can't, they don't deserve to govern. It's as simple as that. People have to take responsibility for their government. It isn't just something that happens.

Sweden really is a special issue, their govt have completely ignored immigrant issues since forever, which have lead them to their current state, compared to Denmark, who began to fix the issues in the beginning of the 00's, and were labeled racists by Swedish politicians ever since, it's really no wonder that the Sweden right is gaining ground this fast, every other politician in Sweden are still labeling their right party as nazi's and refuse to coorporate with them, they have some hippie idea of "love and happiness will fix it", I've got Swedish relatives, and the flowerpower crap they post on facebook is laughable and yet sad, it's really no wonder that the Swedish democrates (the right party) is gaining this much ground.

Imagine if the US had ignored immigration from mexico and other places completely, for decades, opened the borders for everyone who wanted to come in, someone like Trump would have had a much better shot at winning if that was the case.


However most other european countries are better to strike compromises with the far right, which thankfully leaves alot of people voting for the conservative parties, someone like Marine Le Pen is probably the only real issue in the far right in Europe, but I doubt she'll win the presidential election, I doubt the French will appreciate how she's sponsored by Russia.

[Deleted]

Then they should run for office. No really. Then the moderate parties need to clean house and get those voters back.

If they can't, they don't deserve to govern. It's as simple as that. People have to take responsibility for their government. It isn't just something that happens.

Just how are they supposed to get the voters back? They've pretty much ostracized them publicly, they've denounced them as nazis/racists etc. For being concerned about how many we can take, what it will do with social cohesion, what it will do with crime and the welfare state. Those voters are unlikely to ever return to those parties unless they pretty much get rid of everyone currently holding any higer position within the party.

What's happened in Sweden is a result of the moderate parties(and media and the anti-racists) blatant contempt of people who are concerned. That is their own doing, they created this mess.

I know if some party showed such contempt for me I wouldn't ever vote for them again.