[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[MCC]

If they wanted to shift our focus away from FoL then they should be reducing the cast time of holy light or making the rest of the toolkit (looking at LoTM) useful. Maybe change fervent martyr so it reduces the health cost of martyr and not the mana cost. That makes LoTM useful along with fervent in some cases like heavy movement fights.

I suspect it's less about shifting our focus away from FoL and more about making sure FoL fills the niche they intended it to fill in the first place. So they are making it more painful for us to spam it. I agree that it won't change anything. We'll still spam it when appropriate and we'll run out of mana a bit faster.

I also think this adjustment, like so many other changes they make, is misguided. Not all that different from the Charlie Foxtrot with the changes to unit position API in motivation.

[Ashborer]

Can Second Sunrise proc off of itself multiple times?

[Uniqed]

At what Mythic+ level whould you say that BoV is more or less "required" to succeed?

[Taeldorian]

At what Mythic+ level whould you say that BoV is more or less "required" to succeed?

Imo it depends on the affix. Raging is really annoying so I'd say anywhere above 7 BoV is practically required with that affix. Sure you can manage without it but you'd be gimping yourself out of huge AoE heals which raging requires.

[Deleted]

It's not required until 10+.

[wombats23]

Imo it depends on the affix. Raging is really annoying so I'd say anywhere above 7 BoV is practically required with that affix. Sure you can manage without it but you'd be gimping yourself out of huge AoE heals which raging requires.

also depends on the dungeon in my experience.

e.g. i don't find much use for BoV in DHT other than the double bear pull and during down draft. most of the damage comes from mobs using their random target abilities on individual party members. don't even get me started on xavius's feed on the weak.

on the other hand, NL at times can feel very whack a mole-ish without BoV. (i do feel like NL becomes more manageable by a factor of.. 10... if you have lots of stuns in your group though.)

[RestoChango]

It's definitely situational.

EOA is an example this week on higher levels (I've only done it on +9) since the first boss requires a lot of tank healing unless your tank kites the adds due to the debuffs. For the rest of the place BoV is probably stronger though.

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[MCC]

Imo it depends on the affix. Raging is really annoying so I'd say anywhere above 7 BoV is practically required with that affix. Sure you can manage without it but you'd be gimping yourself out of huge AoE heals which raging requires.

Nonsense. I've healed higher mythic+ runs without BoV (with Faith, for the record).

[Taeldorian]

Nonsense. I've healed higher mythic+ runs without BoV (with Faith, for the record).

I didn't say it wasn't possible.

[Jovialio]

SooOo I've been testing Aura of Sac with my group, after I've gotten the legendary shoulders, and switched to BoF. I'm unsure which is best for Mythic Ursoc though.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ht=24&source=1

I tried Aura of Mercy between attempts 6-8, and 10-13. Had problems where if one melee missed a soak, I'd instantly die, which caused me to go Mercy between 10-13. I switched back to Sac, and just DP every time it was melee groups soak, from inconsistent people soaking. Died again on a later attempt, where melee got the Gaze, so only 9 soaked.

Should I just switch to Mercy, or Sac still worth with Shoulders on some fights?

[RestoChango]

SooOo I've been testing Aura of Sac with my group, after I've gotten the legendary shoulders, and switched to BoF. I'm unsure which is best for Mythic Ursoc though.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ht=24&source=1

I tried Aura of Mercy between attempts 6-8, and 10-13. Had problems where if one melee missed a soak, I'd instantly die, which caused me to go Mercy between 10-13. I switched back to Sac, and just DP every time it was melee groups soak, from inconsistent people soaking. Died again on a later attempt, where melee got the Gaze, so only 9 soaked.

Should I just switch to Mercy, or Sac still worth with Shoulders on some fights?

The Aura Mastery actually seems to be putting out some good numbers when it's used effectively (your best use appears to be on wipe 5 when you healed for 10.46m during one charge with the aura)

Here is that section of the log on wipe 5 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...73&end=1333105 - Looks like you casted avenger, RoL and AW at once and with everyone being stacked the aura spread the healing really well across everyone else from your beacon, LoD and holy shock.

The problem with looking at it's effectivess of that Aura is you don't use Aura Mastery enough. I will use examples from the wipes you were using Aura of sacrifice that lasted over 4 mins (Wipe 16, 17, 18 and 22) to illustrate this.
Wipe 16 - Aura mastery not used
Wipe 17 - Aura mastery used at 4:01 for 2.35m healing
Wipe 18 - Aura mastery not used
Wipe 22 - Aura Mastery used at 3:43 for 7.89m healing

So you had 2 fights where you didn't use it and the 2 that you used it on you could of used it once before then.

Regarding it's effectiveness in contributing to healing via your spaulders I'll use the same 4 fights.
Wipe 16 - 5.62m damage from Aura of sacrifice (1.69m healing to beacons) - 6.47m from spaulders (AOS = 26% of spaulder healing)
Wipe 17 - 6.92m damage from Aura of sacrifice (2.08m healing to beacons) - 6.39m from spaulders (AOS = 32% of spaulder healing)
Wipe 18 - 9.47m damage from Aura of sacrifice (2.84m healing to beacons) - 7.27m from spaulders (AOS = 39% of spaulder healing)
Wipe 22 - 8.16m damage from Aura of sacrifice (2.45m healing to beacons) - 6.38m from spaulders (AOS = 38% of spaulder healing)

Basically the majority of your healing from the spaulders is coming naturally and not through the aura of sacrifice.

It appears to be a viable talent, you just need to use it effectively.

[Jovialio]

Yeah we discussed after raid, about what cds we were going to do. I stopped using it on the first charge, because everything was getting healed up quickly right as I popped AM at times, so I didn't think it was worth. There'd be some times, where I'd pop AM, everyone already a bit higher than 50%.

Another problem I'm having is, either waiting another minute for AM to come off cd to pop Wings/HA/Tyrs, or just to have AM by itself. I wouldn't think it'd be good to have AM by itself, because the burst is pretty potent, to not cause a wipe, and mostly save it for the last ~30%.

Is it still a rule to have AW around ~30% uptime on a fight? Or okay to just wait for Sac AM for mega bursts?

Also the spreadsheet, when I put that I'm going Sac, the main page Stat Weights changes to Mastery > Vers > Haste > Crit, and when I go to the Weights tab, it goes Haste > Mastery > Crit > Vers, something wrong with that or am I reading something wrong? Because with RoL, I wouldn't think mastery would matter that much.

[RestoChango]

Yeah we discussed after raid, about what cds we were going to do. I stopped using it on the first charge, because everything was getting healed up quickly right as I popped AM at times, so I didn't think it was worth. There'd be some times, where I'd pop AM, everyone already a bit higher than 50%.

Another problem I'm having is, either waiting another minute for AM to come off cd to pop Wings/HA/Tyrs, or just to have AM by itself. I wouldn't think it'd be good to have AM by itself, because the burst is pretty potent, to not cause a wipe, and mostly save it for the last ~30%.

Is it still a rule to have AW around ~30% uptime on a fight? Or okay to just wait for Sac AM for mega bursts?

Also the spreadsheet, when I put that I'm going Sac, the main page Stat Weights changes to Mastery > Vers > Haste > Crit, and when I go to the Weights tab, it goes Haste > Mastery > Crit > Vers, something wrong with that or am I reading something wrong? Because with RoL, I wouldn't think mastery would matter that much.

If you have an order which means you have time to use AM once and have it come off CD well before you need to use it I'd just ask your your healing/raid leader to see if they want it anyway, if the raid doesn't need the extra healing thats fine though you are sacrificing some HPS and potentially losing some other healers a bit of mana healing things they didn't really need to heal if you used your AM.

I don't use the talent myself but I would worry more about your positioning to make sac effective rather than waiting for all of your CD's to align, on Ursoc you can only really get in 2 AW anyway so you can align it to AM if you want to but I end up using it on opposite ones myself as I think it's more helpful on my raid and means I'm more helpful getting people up more often, I would be using Tyrs enough to get 3 in during the fight though so not saving it too long (1.5 min CD on a fight that is just over 5 mins means you need to use them pretty much on CD).

Not sure on the spreadsheet values, I use my mastery focussed set of gear on Ursoc though as it is a stacked fight.

From a consistency perspective I'd think Mercy or Devo would be more effective with Mercy being the easier one to use as you can heal after people take damage rather than needing to pre-empt it.

[Astraios]

It is most definitely not correct. Here's a simple example.

HL is 425% SP, 12% base mana. Efficiency: 425/12 = 35.4.

FoL is 425% SP, +50% from IoL, 16% base mana. Efficiency: 425*1.5/16 = 39.8.

So, the spreadsheet should have listed FoL+IoL above HL. It doesn't.

Does it even list IOLFOL? I do not recall that ever being listed before, but it has been corrected since. Seems pretty correct to me overall anyways.

- - - Updated - - -

If you have an order which means you have time to use AM once and have it come off CD well before you need to use it I'd just ask your your healing/raid leader to see if they want it anyway, if the raid doesn't need the extra healing thats fine though you are sacrificing some HPS and potentially losing some other healers a bit of mana healing things they didn't really need to heal if you used your AM.

I don't use the talent myself but I would worry more about your positioning to make sac effective rather than waiting for all of your CD's to align, on Ursoc you can only really get in 2 AW anyway so you can align it to AM if you want to but I end up using it on opposite ones myself as I think it's more helpful on my raid and means I'm more helpful getting people up more often, I would be using Tyrs enough to get 3 in during the fight though so not saving it too long (1.5 min CD on a fight that is just over 5 mins means you need to use them pretty much on CD).

Not sure on the spreadsheet values, I use my mastery focussed set of gear on Ursoc though as it is a stacked fight.

From a consistency perspective I'd think Mercy or Devo would be more effective with Mercy being the easier one to use as you can heal after people take damage rather than needing to pre-empt it.

On M ursoc you can get 3 AW, and you can also line up the first and third AW with an AM sac (or you can offset the second AM between the 2nd/3rd AW for smoother healing but lower throughput).

As for using Sac, it's stronger than basically every other raid CD (esp. in a case where you're popping every CD, it can easily pump 15+mil healing with the highest I've seen on ursoc being 23mil from a single use), so if the guild leader isn't making use of it and prioritizing other CD's ahead of it, then he needs to re-evaluate. If your guild will let you, you can pretty much solo heal a charge + the following cacophany using those CD's. They have to be delayed a bit to allow the AoS AM to cover both of them though, and other healers will have a tendency to pump heals out because they're scared.

[RestoChango]

On M ursoc you can get 3 AW, and you can also line up the first and third AW with an AM sac (or you can offset the second AM between the 2nd/3rd AW for smoother healing but lower throughput).

Sorry, yeh I mixed up the acronyms for AM and AW in that sentence.

[MCC]

Does it even list IOLFOL? I do not recall that ever being listed before, but it has been corrected since. Seems pretty correct to me overall anyways.

Yes it does, which is why I noticed the problem in the first place.

This is why I prefer making and using my own spreadsheets...

[Coppervon]

I have a quick quandary regarding Divine Purpose:

Has anyone been able to independently track the two different variations of Divine Purpose. Because they both read the same, with the exception of the white text in the buff, I am only able to track it buff being active--not actually which spell it favors. Has anyone been able to find something that differs between the two buffs to track if its HS or LoD that has proc'd?

EDIT:

You're able to differentiate between the two because Holy Shock is seen as having a stack of 1 and - for Light of Dawn -- was able to get TellMeWhen to track them as seperate entities.

Now all we need is for blizzard to allow the talent to properly work with second sunrise.

[Lestrang]

I have a quick quandary regarding Divine Purpose:

Has anyone been able to independently track the two different variations of Divine Purpose. Because they both read the same, with the exception of the white text in the buff, I am only able to track it buff being active--not actually which spell it favors. Has anyone been able to find something that differs between the two buffs to track if its HS or LoD that has proc'd?

EDIT:

You're able to differentiate between the two because Holy Shock is seen as having a stack of 1 and - for Light of Dawn -- was able to get TellMeWhen to track them as seperate entities.

Now all we need is for blizzard to allow the talent to properly work with second sunrise.

Yes please, am really tired of this bug.. i love divine purpose. I dont dig holy prism, fuck that really. I don't know, i just cant find a suitable keybinding for it and cant be bothered, but i am parsing 99% just fine with divine purpose. But as it is the lowest HPS out of the 3, at least make it work properly..

[Deleted]

When I use Aura of Sacri with Aura mastery, what should I cast?
Right now it's AW or HA-Tyr-Hammer-AM-HS-LoD-FoL*2.

[MCC]

Yes please, am really tired of this bug.. i love divine purpose. I dont dig holy prism, fuck that really. I don't know, i just cant find a suitable keybinding for it and cant be bothered, but i am parsing 99% just fine with divine purpose. But as it is the lowest HPS out of the 3, at least make it work properly..

I think they have different spell IDs despite having the same name.