PvP Lost Some Meaning

[Mafic]

Plenty of old school players have come back just for PvP, it's also being supported on streams quite heavily, comparatively to previous expansions, just for PvP and the arena tournament has had very high viewings.

So no, it isn't.

Again your problem's don't appear to be with actual PvP but with the progression system, or lack of it now you have all your talents. That's a systems design issue not a PvP issue.

*There is no heavy support by streamers for PVP. Those same streamers have existed since Cata/MoP.

*The Legion PVP balance is the worst I have ever seen in WoW

*PVP progression is just a tiny part of the problem as the entire structure of it is wrong. This is why the prestige system is changing 7.1

PVP has been made into a PVE rotations button mashing where Sub Rogues just mongloid a target and Assassination Rogue just train targets and they roll over. There is little depth left to PVP.

[Deleted]

I fail to see your point in reference to mine.

If you want to complain about PvP then complain about balance issues, talent problems, actual class mechanics. Trying to say PvP needs adjustment just because you just enjoyed crushing people 100 item levels below you is dumb.

There really isn't more to say on that. The game, as is now, should cator to a crowd who favour balance over domination; skill wins, not gear. If you don't agree with that ethos - you don't enjoy PvP, you enjoy being over-powered.

Your wrote "why do people complain and aren't happy about the good stuf" - which is what i replied too.

Your second line is already wrong and exemplary of what i stated. All i wrote before anywhere be it in this thread or in general is that grinding matters too much in pvp in legion while you claim the opposite about me. And factually that's the state of things - the game is exactly not what you say it should be. It's nowhere skill focused. More than any previous addon you will have to grind to keep up and late newcomers will be left behind much longer.

How much skill matters could also be seen in how the game is played in the tournament. The tournament centered arround playing countercomps like a moba cause just being a good player wasn't enough to win. Now to be fair the comp was already important in previous addons but as i said - pruning makes it even more important because the outplay potential is lower than before.

[Caolela]

What the fuck does this even mean? Haven't you seen the weekly balancing hotfixes, changing skills in PVE and the PVP template, and also balancing the stat template? They have buffed specs that were shit, and nerfed those that were too strong (DH and warrior). Balancing a game like this is hard, but they're working on it. If you actually played the game instead of spending all day hating on it in the forums you would notice.

Ask warlocks and other specs like Ele how well that "balancing" is going. kek

I do play, just not this shitty xpac. I won't give Blizz a plug nickle for a shitshow just to endlessly grind for a weighted "RNG" in dungeons & raids that I have no interest in, and re-grinding the weapon illusions that I've already earned. And flying. And Garrisons 2.0 & time gates. And CRZ lag like a slide show in major cities. And convenient "bugs" that they haven't bothered to fix but are there to slow you down. And auto-leveling my twinks when XP was off, then claiming that too was a "rare bug" and when it happened again trying to blame me, while being condescending, backpeddling liars in ticket responses. And forever allowing scripters/cheats to exist in Rated play because they like their money and free advertising.

I could give more examples - that's just a start.

Blizz is a company of serial liars and hucksters that exist for one purpose: to separate you from as much of your money as often as possible. They don't care what it takes to do it.

[Deleted]

how do you know i was backpedaling? i was questing on a pvp server where most areas are full of players of both factions. he just attacked and before i knew i was dead. stop talking out of your ass. the data is to show how a melee can burn down a ranged class while blizzard themselves stated that it should be more balanced. i think you are just butthurt cause your fotm dh got nerfed. aaawwwwwwwww

Actually I'm a mage player and I couldn't be happier than they nerfed DHs already. But as you can see here, DHs are basically the worst class in PVP right now: http://www.arenamate.net/?region=&re...000&ladder=3v3

And I'm sorry but the damage you take in the world is not relevant to PVP.

- - - Updated - - -

Ask warlocks and other specs like Ele how well that "balancing" is going. kek

I do play, just not this shitty xpac. I won't give Blizz a plug nickle for a shitshow just to endlessly grind for a weighted "RNG" in dungeons & raids that I have no interest in, and re-grinding the weapon illusions that I've already earned. And flying. And Garrisons 2.0 & time gates. And CRZ lag like a slide show in major cities. And various "bugs" that they haven't bothered to fix but are there to slow you down. And auto-leveling my twinks when XP was off, then claiming that too was a "rare bug" and when it happened again trying to blame me, while being condescending, backpeddling liars in ticket responses. And forever allowing scripters/cheats to exist in Rated play because they like their money and free advertising.

I could give more examples - that's just a start.

Blizz is a company of serial liars and hucksters that exist for one purpose: to separate you from as much of your money as often as possible. They don't care what it takes to do it.

Elemental shammy has been played in the recent regionals, and demo warlocks are in a great spot right now. Affliction is decent too. Destro is getting some significant changes and buffs in 7.1. No lag in cities, don't know what you mean by "varios bugs they haven't bothered to fix", class halls are VERY different to garrisons. Customer service has always been excellent in my experience. Cheaters are a problem, but they're constantly banning people. They banned like 4000 accounts right before Legion launch. No flying makes the game better IMO.
Complaining about your twink... Hahaha looks like you only like pvp when you can abuse people without gear?

[Chemii]

Your wrote "why do people complain and aren't happy about the good stuf" - which is what i replied too.

No I didn't...and I quote

A month and a bit into the expansion, this just demonstrates how quick people forget the great launch and some of the good experiences they had less than a few weeks ago.

The point being, that the same individuals who were asking for and then praising the new stuff a month ago, during beta or otherwise, are now saying they want the old pvp setup back and that Legion sucks balls.

Be constructive, what value does "everything sucks dick" have, when it clearly doesn't.

[Mafic]

No I didn't...and I quote



The point being, that the same individuals who were asking for and then praising the new stuff a month ago, during beta or otherwise, are now saying they want the old pvp setup back and that Legion sucks balls.

Be constructive, what value does "everything sucks dick" have, when it clearly doesn't.

No.

People have been complaining about Legion PVP since Alpha from last year. Everything about PVP is across the board bad with the exception of the template system which has potential but they screwed that up as well.

[Chemii]

*There is no heavy support by streamers for PVP. Those same streamers have existed since Cata/MoP.

*The Legion PVP balance is the worst I have ever seen in WoW

*PVP progression is just a tiny part of the problem as the entire structure of it is wrong. This is why the prestige system is changing 7.1

PVP has been made into a PVE rotations button mashing where Sub Rogues just mongloid a target and Assassination Rogue just train targets and they roll over. There is little depth left to PVP.

Most ability, spec combinations in PvP ever and there is no depth? OK.

Everything else you said just supports what I've been saying, although I disagree about the balance - it just sounds like someone who forgot season 6, 7 & 8 or anything before that.

[Mafic]

Most ability, spec combinations in PvP ever and there is no depth? OK.

Everything else you said just supports what I've been saying, thanks.

The depth is gone. Sub Rogues don't really have to make a choice when to use Shadow Dance or Shadow Step as they have on demand Shadow Strike. Sub Rogues no longer have garrote shiv, or gouge so the only way to peel their targets is to spam cheap shot before it DR's. This is not fun for the Sub Rogue or the casters that they smother.

Assassination Rogues are forced into comps that provide CC because they lost Gouge, Blind, Shiv, etc. Garrote is the only beneficial CC Assassination has but it is now tied to a 2 min CD vanish and there is no prep. Assassination is a worse version of feral and the damage is what is carrying the spec. Once that is nerfed the spec will be completely unplayable.



Everything I said runs counter to what you are purporting is reality.

[Caolela]

Actually I'm a mage player and I couldn't be happier than they nerfed DHs already. But as you can see here, DHs are basically the worst class in PVP right now: http://www.arenamate.net/?region=&re...000&ladder=3v3

And I'm sorry but the damage you take in the world is not relevant to PVP.

- - - Updated - - -



Elemental shammy has been played in the recent regionals, and demo warlocks are in a great spot right now. Affliction is decent too. Destro is getting some significant changes and buffs in 7.1. No lag in cities, don't know what you mean by "varios bugs they haven't bothered to fix", class halls are VERY different to garrisons. Customer service has always been excellent in my experience. Cheaters are a problem, but they're constantly banning people. They banned like 4000 accounts right before Legion launch. No flying makes the game better IMO.
Complaining about your twink... Hahaha looks like you only like pvp when you can abuse people without gear?

The Ele sham I saw in one match was dogshit and that comp lost. Don't recall the team but in the next match they switched to another spec. Many Aff locks I've seen can't get a raid spot if they begged for one. It's not a L2P issue, it's shitty class design. And Destro, my main, is a joke. Class halls - LOL.

"No flying makes the game better". Yep. Like walking to work every day makes my life more interesting. I'm not getting any work done but at least I get a better look at the scenery. Maybe I should get a horse & buggy next month...

Yeah...but no. Remember "gear doesn't matter"? They've basically killed twinking too, but I do it to play with other twinks. There's no facerolling noobs unless someone is nearly naked in a bracket or they're mid-fighting mongoloids. What's more, I usually play the 2nd tier specs and rarely if ever the FotM OP specs, like right now Surv and Disc.

So much for your ignorant ASSumptions.

No CRZ lag? Hmm, funny because every time I go into SW or Org I have to wait quite awhile for everyone to zone in from umpteen other realms. Most of the time I can't even mount for 30 seconds or so. The same crap in Dal and Shrine. Try taking the boat from SW to Kalimdor. Half the time it doesn't materialize.

Blizz "bans" are a joke, and anyone with a brain knows it. The only ones they hate are gold botters because they see them as taking revenue from them so they get banned occasionally. Temp bans and even permas don't do much because they come right back with new accts. or wait it out. If they were serious they'd ban method-of-payment, hardware bans, and so on.

Fanboy harder.

[Chemii]

The depth is gone. Sub Rogues don't really have to make a choice when to use Shadow Dance or Shadow Step as they have on demand Shadow Strike. Sub Rogues no longer have garrote shiv, or gouge so the only way to peel their targets is to spam cheap shot before it DR's. This is not fun for the Sub Rogue or the casters that they smother.

Assassination Rogues are forced into comps that provide CC because they lost Gouge, Blind, Shiv, etc. Garrote is the only beneficial CC Assassination has but it is now tied to a 2 min CD vanish and there is no prep. Assassination is a worse version of feral and the damage is what is carrying the spec. Once that is nerfed the spec will be completely unplayable.



Everything I said runs counter to what you are purporting is reality.

My first post in this thread I openly recognized there were balance issues and that's what needs addressing, not the gearing system - which faults or otherwise, opinion is subjective. What you are talking about has literally nothing to do with the OP.

Streamers and old PvPers coming back to WoW because they enjoy Legion's systems further supports that it is not as bad as you're making out, again, I've said this before. You said the same streamers exist since cata/mop - doesn't that support what I've just said or do you really think none of them stopped playing in WoD and in a lot of cases in MoP?

All your giving is your opinion, on just Rogue for some reason, which is fine but it's not gospel - a lot of the community disagrees with you. MoP balance was disgusting.

[Mafic]

My first post in this thread I openly recognized there were balance issues and that's what needs addressing, not the gearing system - which faults or otherwise, opinion is subjective. What you are talking about has literally nothing to do with the OP.

Streamers and old PvPers coming back to WoW because they enjoy Legion's systems further supports that it is not as bad as you're making out, again, I've said this before. You said the same streamers exist since cata/mop - doesn't that support what I've just said or do you really think none of them stopped playing in WoD and in a lot of cases in MoP?

All your giving is your opinion, on just Rogue for some reason, which is fine but it's not gospel - a lot of the community disagrees with you. MoP balance was disgusting.

The faults of the gearing system are not "subjective" . The best way to gear and grind AP for PVP is through PVE. Period. That isn't an opinion but an objective fact.

The entire Legion PVP experience is to make it enticing only for PVE players to do some PVP. Even as far as going to removing the cap on PVE gear in PVP, because PVE gear has always been the best gear in the game and why it was capped in PVP instances previous few expansions.

Most of the PVP streamers are now streaming mythic dungeon runs and raids and very little "PVP".

[Mafic]

Good xpac to be a PvE hero. Love it when tryhard PvP squads decked out in their garbage gear try to gank me in the world and I just annihilate them all lol. So many angry whispers especially in those free for all areas.

We already know this. Too bad there are people arguing otherwise lol.

[Deleted]

lol I've always been a PvE hero and I can't believe anyone seriously thinks we don't have an insane advantage. Maybe I'll record myself on my 865 DK with legendary bracers, I easily 2 shot people, sometimes killing entire groups of gankers with my cleave.

Alright Spartacus, (lol)

And then get beaten in a bg because of not having a ilvl advantage. Dks are derps in pvp atm

[Mafic]

Alright Spartacus, (lol)

And then get beaten in a bg because of not having a ilvl advantage. Dks are derps in pvp atm

Ilevel still works in PVP to give an advantage. Templates only normalizes to an extent.

[bonewax]

lol I've always been a PvE hero and I can't believe anyone seriously thinks we don't have an insane advantage. Maybe I'll record myself on my 865 DK with legendary bracers, I easily 2 shot people, sometimes killing entire groups of gankers with my cleave.

The irony of someone trying to assert themself as a badass with a my little pony avatar is palpable.

[Regalbeast]

The main problem with PvP for a long time is that it does not feel rewarding at all. It might be an unpopular opinion but i think that a guy who plays 6-12 hours of pvp per day should absolutely roflstomp a guy who plays none to 2 hours of pvp gameplay. If i'm hitting a guy who is 20 ilvls lower than me like a ramen to the face, then what's the point?

lol you can't be serious, right? You want 5% of the playerbase to make PvP completely unenjoyable for the rest of the players just because they have lives?

[Dragoncurry]

lol you can't be serious, right? You want 5% of the playerbase to make PvP completely unenjoyable for the rest of the players just because they have lives?

Don't waste your time, People are so clueless it's funny.

People who play 6-12 hrs a day WILL roflstomp someone who plays none to 2 hrs of PvP a day. You think you and 2 friends can take on Cdew, Snutz, and Smexxin?

You think you can go pick up Dota 2, and beat Arteezy? Bro, your hero is the same strength as his hero! Even though you've been playing for 30 seconds and he's been playing for 10 years!

There's no difference right?!

You know what's rewarding? Meeting me on the battlefield with the same general ballpark of power level, and then me beating you 9 times out of 10. That's rewarding. You have no excuse. How is that not rewarding?

Oh yeah I know how. It's because a reward for certain people in this game is the equivalent of suffering in slavery until the people owning you have passed away and you're finally strong enough to beat up their kids.

[Kagthul]

Don't waste your time, People are so clueless it's funny.

People who play 6-12 hrs a day WILL roflstomp someone who plays none to 2 hrs of PvP a day. You think you and 2 friends can take on Cdew, Snutz, and Smexxin?

You think you can go pick up Dota 2, and beat Arteezy? Bro, your hero is the same strength as his hero! Even though you've been playing for 30 seconds and he's been playing for 10 years!

There's no difference right?!

You know what's rewarding? Meeting me on the battlefield with the same general ballpark of power level, and then me beating you 9 times out of 10. That's rewarding. You have no excuse. How is that not rewarding?

Oh yeah I know how. It's because a reward for certain people in this game is the equivalent of suffering in slavery until the people owning you have passed away and you're finally strong enough to beat up their kids.

MOBAs aren't MMOs.

One is based exactly on 100% equality and skill.

One is based on endless character progression.

[Sencha]

Pvp is a skill war not a gear check. So the removal of gear is the first good thing that happened to pvp in the last 5 years.

Now if you just pvp to get better gear in order to faceroll undergeared people, then you're playing the wrong game.

[Deleted]

MOBAs aren't MMOs.

One is based exactly on 100% equality and skill.

One is based on endless character progression.

Moba's have progression - be it leveling your account to unlock abilities / passive bonuses or unlocking new fotm champs
WoW's endgame has no endless progression - everyone get's capped in gear at the end of a season.