So this is the answer we got, and what are we going to do?!?!?!

[aroth]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...nkings&fight=2

Pretty much sums up my experience of balance. (Nythendra fight) Arms Warrior (He is very good) doing 120k+ dps on the same fight with the same percentile.

THIS is what people need to be looking at. His performance was comparable to your own, at a LOWER ilvl and he STILL did nearly 50% MORE dps than you. I can live with DKs being on the lower half of the rankings, but not when there is THAT much of a gap between the two and no real utility in our class anymore.

[Bloodtanker]

Im getting tired of seeing these post now about the state of dks. I know we are not doing so great but spamming forums and writing with CAPs and such is just tiring and Im sure blizzard is also sick of these types of post. Theres no constructive feedback just " we are bad and shit, fix us". Im sure they are aware of the issue we have and i will say 7.1 might be our time but jesus stop already.

[Dahti]

That might be more to do with legendary balancing rather than class balancing though..

[Quincey]

Im getting tired of seeing these post now about the state of dks. I know we are not doing so great but spamming forums and writing with CAPs and such is just tiring and Im sure blizzard is also sick of these types of post. Theres no constructive feedback just " we are bad and shit, fix us". Im sure they are aware of the issue we have and i will say 7.1 might be our time but jesus stop already.

Visibility is literally the only tool we have to get the attention of the devs. This guy posted in the death knight section, not in 'caps' and the post was directed at the community anyway. If you don't like the thread why did you open it?

[Grimdeeds]

it would be nice if people started looking at 95th percentile because 95th is easily attainable for a skilled player which is what we should be looking at when we look at logs

I agree with the thread and it's premise, but please stop using 75th, 75th is really mediocre

1. Either way demonstrates at least Unholy in a bad place

2. The point is feedback designed to get blizzard's attention, and linking 95th percentile is suggesting to them to balance around, what is by definition, outliers.

[Deleted]

Im getting tired of seeing these post now about the state of dks. I know we are not doing so great but spamming forums and writing with CAPs and such is just tiring and Im sure blizzard is also sick of these types of post. Theres no constructive feedback just " we are bad and shit, fix us". Im sure they are aware of the issue we have and i will say 7.1 might be our time but jesus stop already.

There is tons of constructive feedback. But Blizzard just ignores it, or at least it seems that way. It is a frustrating situation, even more so because we don't even know if they agree with us.

[Grimdeeds]

Just not sure how they are going to do the buffs, im in a 7/7 mythic guild and im disappointed with my dps on most fights, im doing the best i can with what i have (no bracers) i see alot of people making mistakes but still beating me due to class, but while in mythic + dungeons im crushing it being top on most trash pulls and bosses, especially first and last boss with army up, so if they do buff us it will make us even stronger in 5mans.

I have a similar, but not quite the same, experience in mythic plus dungeons (but I'm not in a 7/7m guild either, only1/7m). I find that most trash packs I am very solid, but only stomp the others when apocalypse is up, or the stars align with RNG. Otherwise the fire mages, WW monks, and enhance shammies, DH's, etc etc can usually be pretty competitive with me on trash. It's single target (bosses) where I have a huge rollercoaster from doing good when I have Army up, to pretty bad when it's not up. Even with Army up, the only boss, off the top of my head, where I can really be king is Rokmora the first boss in Nelth's lair because the cleave is so good along with army and everything else being available and he dies fairly quickly. Otherwise, even with Army up, I'm not crushing my friends' dps on single target, it's just that I'm actually being competitive with them on those dungeon bosses.

So, my thoughts on your concern is what I've been saying and I think Rothulean was the first (that I noticed) to suggest, which is to buff Death coil (or some other single target ability). Give us enough of a death coil buff to maintain some kind of sustained single target damage so on bosses like mythic Ursoc we don't completely dread every passing minute that our damage falls off, and we have a little more ranged capacity so movement doesn't kill our damage quite as badly, and finally death coil actually starts to feel satisfying to use. I get that we are pretty bursty so we cannot expect to sustain that initial burst at all, but nevertheless our falloff of single target damage over time seems pretty extreme compared to our non-DK peers'.

Seems to me like making this kind of change wouldn't imbalance us for mythic plus dungeons and would help us be competitive on more single-target oriented raid fights.

[Fang7986]

Comparing specs to other specs is pointless. All that matters is if the "bottom" dps specs can still clear stuff, which they can.

[Slim1256]

Comparing specs to other specs is pointless. All that matters is if the "bottom" dps specs can still clear stuff, which they can.

Strongly disagree. Why should certain specs have to carry the team? Why should some specs do garbage tier DPS?

I'm not in a super-competitive group, but I prefer to pull my own weight, even if I won't be called out if I don't. Why should I just sit by and let Blizzard relegate me to the bottom of the meters without at least protesting?

I don't understand the mentality of "well, if you can be on a raid team that clears the content, who cares what your DPS is?" Eff that. I want to be competitive with every other DPS in there, because I don't want my ass being carried while I play my preferred class (and spec).

[Grimdeeds]

Comparing specs to other specs is pointless. All that matters is if the "bottom" dps specs can still clear stuff, which they can.

What? It's far from pointless. It may be that a raid full of the bottom spec as dps could eventually clear a raid, but that doesn't mean they enjoy losing a competitive edge with their peers of similar skill with teams filled with a variety of dps. If you personally don't care about being competitive with your peers that's fine, but I don't know why you would try to tell everyone else they should be fine with it, too.

As an example, I'm in a guild where people are social and have fun competing with each other, and although we certainly have a range of skill in our group, there's a few of us with similar skill levels that like to compete with each other. That's difficult to do right now for DK's in the current raid (EN), except on the trash packs leading up to bosses.

For me, this is why I wholeheartedly disagree with you, sir. With respect.

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Strongly disagree. Why should certain specs have to carry the team? Why should some specs do garbage tier DPS?

I'm not in a super-competitive group, but I prefer to pull my own weight, even if I won't be called out if I don't. Why should I just sit by and let Blizzard relegate me to the bottom of the meters without at least protesting?

I don't understand the mentality of "well, if you can be on a raid team that clears the content, who cares what your DPS is?" Eff that. I want to be competitive with every other DPS in there, because I don't want my ass being carried while I play my preferred class (and spec).

You beat me to the punch. /agree

[Slim1256]

You beat me to the punch. /agree

LOL. I was about to ask if you were me.

[Deleted]

They said they'll do something about it in 7.1 so till then. I'm fine.

[aroth]

They said they'll do something about it in 7.1 so till then. I'm fine.

No, they said that any further balancing/tuning will not happen until 7.1. At no point did they say they would do anything about OUR specific problems.

[Bolt66]

They said they'll do something about it in 7.1 so till then. I'm fine.

I'm sure those legendary bracers have nothing to do with that sentiment

[Coldvibes]

It's okay to be the bottom, someone has to be at the bottom.

It's not okay to have the standard deviation and the delta between top and bottom be so ridiculously large. That's the problem I have.

[aroth]

It's okay to be the bottom, someone has to be at the bottom.

It's not okay to have the standard deviation and the delta between top and bottom be so ridiculously large. That's the problem I have.

/agree x100

[Grimdeeds]

No, they said that any further balancing/tuning will not happen until 7.1. At no point did they say they would do anything about OUR specific problems.

This is an excellent point. Blizzard hasn't made any mention that I'm aware of that they agree with any particular feedback or that they think DK's need any sort of attention. Seems like more feedback especially from top notch players like Kanj would be nice to help us out.

[Deleted]

No, they said that any further balancing/tuning will not happen until 7.1. At no point did they say they would do anything about OUR specific problems.

Remember a blue post in a DK thread some time ago, where they stated they've gone through sims and logs, and are aware of DK's issues. Don't remember what post, because there've been so threads since that post.

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I'm sure those legendary bracers have nothing to do with that sentiment

Well... Still below a lot of people in the guild, because they've gotten equally good legendaries, because we've farmed somewhat equally much. But as long as you perform well in raids, it won't matter all that much.

But yeah. We are low compared to other classes. Only good thing we have is high burst on priority targets... And a grip

[Grimdeeds]

I'm sure those legendary bracers have nothing to do with that sentiment

Ahh, yea if he has the bracers then yea he's one of the lucky few and might explain why he's okay with wait and see. I'm so desperate to get those but there's no path to them other than keep trying to fish with mythic + dungeons, but that's no guarantee and I've spammed so many mythic pluses. Ugh.

Being in a group where several of your friends got lucky and have good legendaries while I'm stuck with the defensive neck, it's pretty painful.

[aroth]

Remember a blue post in a DK thread some time ago, where they stated they've gone through sims and logs, and are aware of DK's issues. Don't remember what post, because there've been so threads since that post.

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Well... Still below a lot of people in the guild, because they've gotten equally good legendaries, because we've farmed somewhat equally much. But as long as you perform well in raids, it won't matter all that much.

That was a single community manager who said HE had looked through the info and forwarded it to the devs. Then today someone asked about any sort of response and basically got told "devs don't care right now, expect no tuning before 7.1". No information on whether the devs agreed with us (doesn't matter two shits if the CM does, he can't change anything, what's important is if the DEVS feel things are out of whack still).

Also, the problem is DKs CAN'T perform well in raids atm. With every week we fall further and further behind in the logs, which makes more and more RLs start benching us.