Hardcore Raider. Close to giving up

[DakonBlackblade]

The minimum Dps requirement for Ursoc Mythic (considering only Ursoc and disconsidering the copies) is 307k dps, so ye...

But I understand where you are comming from, its rather retarded how much grinding you need to do to be in the top with these new systems, things need to be toned down a bit, specialy when you have artifact traits that give ppl 5% extra dps, survivability or heal.

[Tharkkun]

I'm having difficulty understanding just how you came about defining yourself as "hardcore".

Per Blizzard anyone that raids in Mythic is considered hard core. The community may like to prop people more dedicated up as hardcore but tackling the highest level of difficulty while it's current is about as hard core as you can get.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure you need more than 280k per person for Ursoc mythic unless you are being carried.
Also pretty sure even below average specs in ilvl865+ without dps legendary can do atleast that if you don't suck/gear wrong.

[l33t]

Well, hardcore or not, the game nowadays consists of too much rng over rng over rng over rng over rng over rng systems, that's a fact. Not complaining, but I just wish some things, such as three stars crafts for example, would be less rng based and more like a steady reward people can work towards. Also, it would be nice if we could titanforge items, just like we can use obliterum to levelup crafting gear. Too much rng in gearing inevitably leads to too big unequality in players performance.

[Dequanacus]

I don't care if op is a liar or a noob or what else, but I see his point. And he's (kinda) right. I believe a good video game should put way more focus on your skill than in grinding stupid things.

But OP is already in a guild and has raided with them at least once from what I understand. He has the opportunity to show that he is performing optimally at his ilvl which would be sufficient to defeat mythic level raid bosses. I don't see how your argument is valid in the context of OP's scenario.

The concern over ilvl is only an entry level issue in my eyes. Yes. You will likely need a certain ilvl for people to give you the benefit of the doubt, beyond that how ever, you do not need to use ilvl as an example of skill as they are playing with you and can see what you're doing.

If you want to argue that they may see only your lower damage and not your lower ilvl as well, I'd say that they are not good players if they cannot comprehend basic math and would argue that you would not want to be playing with them regardless of your ilvl.

- - - Updated - - -

The respones to the OP are disgusting as usual. The WoW community is so utterly toxic.

That doesn't immediately place OP in the right how ever. Making such sweeping assessments also devalues the comments here that actually raise arguments based on valid reasoning instead of making the subjective assumptions that you are complaining about (which you also made your self).

Bemoaning the poor state of something usually only contributes to said state unless the comment itself contributes some sort of alternative or at least reasoning.

[kamuimac]

specialy when you have artifact traits that give ppl 5% extra dps, survivability or heal.

that trait as all paragon levels after it are meant as obvious overtime nerf to the content - its not different then vp gear upgrades therefore it shouldnt kick in too soon.

[Nethlord]

Um... no? They're just far more driven than most players.

- - - Updated - - -



Confirmed, you're not part of the hardcore crowd.

What hardcore crowd? You mean the tiny niche before this expansion that is being squeezed out to neigh-on non existence? Then yea sure. The commitment to this high-end has become something akin to a literal job, 8 hours in every day or more to produce amazing numbers and to complete what equates...


To a literal waste of time. World 1st and the community that drives for it has become a blotch on the rest of the game and how the direction of it became skewed; and went right off the deep-end. Of course people aren't going for this.....we do have other priorities in life. You might not (and that's not a damning point) but that niche is drying up quickly.

And when this sector finally disappears, and it will (I am saying this matter-of-factly) the game will just rebound absorb that fringe back into the collective. Yes, I honestly feel Blizzard is trying to murder off mythic raiding, even if it looks like to the contrary. It no longer about hard fights, its about massive grinds and ridiculous amounts of gametime logged with a corporation of people churning out mats/flasks/pots/food all the time, just to preform at the highest levels on the game. It's gonna break down real quick.

[Actarius]

*snippy*

I would consider myself "hardcore", along with most of my guild.

I'm at rank 29
3 Legendaries (can equip two)
400+ mythic+ dungeons
Exalted with all reps (done with most of those god damn WQs)
Rank 3 in all alchemy potions and flasks (except stamina and the tanking potion)
5 110 characters, lowest ilvl is 853, lowest AP rank is 20.


Not to be rude, but I believe my mage (primary alt) is farther along than you.

I wouldn't call you a hardcore raider. You're more of a casual raider. Most people on our casual team are around your level, 20-25 traits, 0-1 legendaries, few m+, most gear from raids, etc.

I know a lot of people have tainted the definition of casual vs. hardcore, but when I suggest you're leaning to the casual end of the spectrum, it's not an insult. You have different priorities/availability and cannot push the envelope as hard as you used to be able to. Or maybe you got used to WoD raiding and how little external effort was required, so you picked up activities in real life and now that WoW takes time like it used to, you're having issues keeping up everything you want to do.

To go through your points,

1) Everyone on my team has theirs. Some were pure luck and got theirs right away. Most of us farmed heroics until m+ dropped and did like 200+ m+ that first week to get ours. It's a grind if you're trying to get it early. You just need to throw yourself into the content until you get it.

2) At the absolute minimum, you need to clear the AP WQs each day, do your daily heroic, and clear an average of 2 mythics or mythic+ a day. On top of that, most of our raiders also go back and do normal for those big AP drops from EN. Clear more of the order of 50-100~ m+ a week (mainly higher levels since the AP nerf). I know it sucks but the end is in sight for many of us. I'm 6 traits away from being able to scale back and enjoy myself. 0.5% healing per rank isn't as big a priority as getting up to 35 asap.

3) I've made several posts that make generous assumptions on WF/TF chances and it still shows how abysmally unlikely it is to get an upgrade outside of mythic EN if all your gear is 870/875+. To put it in perspective, you'll need around ~735 mythic+2 (single chest) runs to see an 880 drop. I have one 875 and 1 880 from m+ chest drops personally. It's not something you're going to farm. If you want, push +10s within time, you only need around ~50 of those to see an 880. Mythic+ is mainly for AP drops for serious raiders, the odds of a substantial upgrade is too small from lower mythics. (Also note, these are very very generous numbers, this assumes a 50% to roll up each tier, if I lowered it to say 45%, it'll now take about ~1500 mythic +2 instead of ~735 to see an 880 - Blizzard themselves has stated its lower than 50%)

4) First off, +10 gives an 880, I know because I get it every single week. As I referenced in point 3, the only real advantage of farming infinite amounts of m+ is AP. The higher your avg ilvl goes, the worse and worse m+ become for gear. You're not really doing them for upgrades, you're doing them for AP and hoping for a legendary/upgrade, but knowing the chance is like 1% at best. If you're looking for gear, you focus on mythic+10, you cannot carry this difficulty yet, so there is a very real limitation on how many you can do. Our roster is 24 people, let's say we can all clear up to +12. That's 72 runs at best, and you're not going to be able to get into all of them; if your friends list contains people who can push 10+, they're most likely doing that in a guild.



I agree raiding has a lot more to do outside of just raiding. It's a major change of pace from WoD, and even more time consuming than MoP/Cata. But this is the price we pay for wanting to be hardcore and pushing those extra few %.

[WOWandchill]

I would consider myself "hardcore", along with most of my guild.

I'm at rank 29
3 Legendaries (can equip two)
400+ mythic+ dungeons
Exalted with all reps (done with most of those god damn WQs)
Rank 3 in all alchemy potions and flasks (except stamina and the tanking potion)
5 110 characters, lowest ilvl is 853, lowest AP rank is 20.


Not to be rude, but I believe my mage (primary alt) is farther along than you.

I wouldn't call you a hardcore raider. You're more of a casual raider. Most people on our casual team are around your level, 20-25 traits, 0-1 legendaries, few m+, most gear from raids, etc.

I know a lot of people have tainted the definition of casual vs. hardcore, but when I suggest you're leaning to the casual end of the spectrum, it's not an insult. You have different priorities/availability and cannot push the envelope as hard as you used to be able to. Or maybe you got used to WoD raiding and how little external effort was required, so you picked up activities in real life and now that WoW takes time like it used to, you're having issues keeping up everything you want to do.

To go through your points,

1) Everyone on my team has theirs. Some were pure luck and got theirs right away. Most of us farmed heroics until m+ dropped and did like 200+ m+ that first week to get ours. It's a grind if you're trying to get it early. You just need to throw yourself into the content until you get it.

2) At the absolute minimum, you need to clear the AP WQs each day, do your daily heroic, and clear an average of 2 mythics or mythic+ a day. On top of that, most of our raiders also go back and do normal for those big AP drops from EN. Clear more of the order of 50-100~ m+ a week (mainly higher levels since the AP nerf). I know it sucks but the end is in sight for many of us. I'm 6 traits away from being able to scale back and enjoy myself. 0.5% healing per rank isn't as big a priority as getting up to 35 asap.

3) I've made several posts that make generous assumptions on WF/TF chances and it still shows how abysmally unlikely it is to get an upgrade outside of mythic EN if all your gear is 870/875+. To put it in perspective, you'll need around ~735 mythic+2 (single chest) runs to see an 880 drop. I have one 875 and 1 880 from m+ chest drops personally. It's not something you're going to farm. If you want, push +10s within time, you only need around ~50 of those to see an 880. Mythic+ is mainly for AP drops for serious raiders, the odds of a substantial upgrade is too small from lower mythics. (Also note, these are very very generous numbers, this assumes a 50% to roll up each tier, if I lowered it to say 45%, it'll now take about ~1500 mythic +2 instead of ~735 to see an 880 - Blizzard themselves has stated its lower than 50%)

4) First off, +10 gives an 880, I know because I get it every single week. As I referenced in point 3, the only real advantage of farming infinite amounts of m+ is AP. The higher your avg ilvl goes, the worse and worse m+ become for gear. You're not really doing them for upgrades, you're doing them for AP and hoping for a legendary/upgrade, but knowing the chance is like 1% at best. If you're looking for gear, you focus on mythic+10, you cannot carry this difficulty yet, so there is a very real limitation on how many you can do. Our roster is 24 people, let's say we can all clear up to +12. That's 72 runs at best, and you're not going to be able to get into all of them; if your friends list contains people who can push 10+, they're most likely doing that in a guild.



I agree raiding has a lot more to do outside of just raiding. It's a major change of pace from WoD, and even more time consuming than MoP/Cata. But this is the price we pay for wanting to be hardcore and pushing those extra few %.

do you even go outside. jeesus

[Svisalith]

Seriously doubt OP is as hardcore as he thinks. I'm sitting at 24 points on my main artifact and like 16 on my offspec weapon and I was out for a full week on vacay after the expansion dropped.

He has 1.5x less AP than my friend who quit on the first week that heroic raids opened

[Anastacy]

Per Blizzard anyone that raids in Mythic is considered hard core. The community may like to prop people more dedicated up as hardcore but tackling the highest level of difficulty while it's current is about as hard core as you can get.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...page=3#post-55

"I think it's easy to define people by their "progression".

Raids are a good example - I would never see someone as as "casual" player if they are investing into Mythic raids during progression periods (sans carry). Most of that is to do with the amount of playtime investment required, so you could also take that as a major factor.

A hardcore player would also do as much as they can to maximize their playtime to the extreme, while a casual player would be fine enjoying the game within its constraints and limitations without pushing too hard.

Either way, I think it's obvious that a majority of the player base would be defined as casual within this, no?"

My guild killed Mythic Xavius this Tuesday. We are not hard-core.

[Actarius]

do you even go outside. jeesus

Not currently, haha. I'm fairly active outside of expansion drops and new tiers of content. I can trickle my alts up over the next few months in preparation for NH split runs, and once rank 35 is reached, I can back off that as well.

But right now I work 35 hours a week, play another 50 or so, hit the gym 1 hour a day, and hardly sleep!!

[Tharkkun]

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...page=3#post-55

"I think it's easy to define people by their "progression".

Raids are a good example - I would never see someone as as "casual" player if they are investing into Mythic raids during progression periods (sans carry). Most of that is to do with the amount of playtime investment required, so you could also take that as a major factor.

A hardcore player would also do as much as they can to maximize their playtime to the extreme, while a casual player would be fine enjoying the game within its constraints and limitations without pushing too hard.

Either way, I think it's obvious that a majority of the player base would be defined as casual within this, no?"

My guild killed Mythic Xavius this Tuesday. We are not hard-core.

It's right there in the quote. "I would never see someone as a "casual" player if they are investing into Mythic raids during progression periods" which means during the current raid/tier.

You're working on Mythic so you're hard core. Does it mean you're the top 1%? No. But you're probably in the top 5% of all players.

[Anastacy]

It's right there in the quote. "I would never see someone as a "casual" player if they are investing into Mythic raids during progression periods" which means during the current raid/tier.

You're working on Mythic so you're hard core. Does it mean you're the top 1%? No. But you're probably in the top 5% of all players.

It's not just one thing that defines "hardcore", though, which you are willfully ignoring. Time investment and extra effort are also substantial factors in the definition.

Are you telling me a guild who only killed the first few bosses in Mythic HFC pre-Legion patch are "hard-core"? It was the most current raid tier available at the time...

[Deleted]

You could've just summed up this thread by posting "My RNG sucks so I'll blame that on my DPS instead of my inability to play well".

280k is nowhere near good DPS especially for Ursoc
Legendaries don't make you a good player
Titanforge shit doesn't mean a thing if you can't play properly
Your AP is terrible, I have 3 characters with more AP on all of them than you do and I work 8-6 Mon to Friday.

OP, now you see whats hardcore...

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Don't give up.

Don't give in.

Fight.

[Tharkkun]

It's not just one thing that defines "hardcore", though, which you are willfully ignoring. Time investment and extra effort are also substantial factors in the definition.

Are you telling me a guild who only killed the first few bosses in Mythic HFC pre-Legion patch are "hard-core"? It was the most current raid tier available at the time...

How was HFC relevant over a year after it's release? Raid's are designed to last 6 months. If you want to declare yourself a casual then by all means continue selling yourself short.

[Anastacy]

How was HFC relevant over a year after it's release? Raid's are designed to last 6 months.

I was asking for clarification to an ill-defined thought. And how long a raid tier lasts can change from tier to tier (and can be artificially lengthened [read: EN/NH being the same tier]).

Since, however, you want to go with 6 months, if a guild only "progresses" through 4 out of 13 Mythic bosses within that 6 month period, are they hard-core?

If you want to declare yourself a casual then by all means continue selling yourself short.

We don't define ourselves as casual, either.

Since you're so keen on using "Blizzard" as a reference: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...page=4#post-69

"I agree with everything you said. Time commitment, set-up, and strategic planning pushes Hardcore.

Something in between is an interesting thought as well, somewhere I'd probably fall at the moment."

[Notdev]

Why should it be like that?
Why do raiders have to be punished with the worst imaginable content, doing daily quests?
This makes roughly as much sense as saying, "if you want to raid, you must play Hearthstone 10 hours a week! Or Overwatch."

No thanks, I like to raid but despise daily quests and grinding. Blizzard worked hard to separate PvP from raiding, so arena players don't have to raid anymore for BiS trinkets, and raiders don't have to do arena for high ilvl weapons. Why are daily quests something that everyone must absolutely do, no matter what? It's the shittiest non-content by far. They even nerfed AP gains from mythic+, so back to WQs for everyone.

And "just" 10 hours a week is literally a part time job.

Because otherwise people complain that there is nothing to do anymore. Even so, I'm at the point where I could literally not log in outside of raid except to do a mythic +10 and not fall behind.

And the only reason I mentioned 10 hours is because thats what OP mentioned he spends outside of raid.. 30 minutes could be a part time job too. So can 35 hours.

And why did you put quotations around the word "just" when I didn't have that anywhere in my post?

[ItsTiddles]

Why should it be like that?
Why do raiders have to be punished with the worst imaginable content, doing daily quests?
This makes roughly as much sense as saying, "if you want to raid, you must play Hearthstone 10 hours a week! Or Overwatch."

No thanks, I like to raid but despise daily quests and grinding. Blizzard worked hard to separate PvP from raiding, so arena players don't have to raid anymore for BiS trinkets, and raiders don't have to do arena for high ilvl weapons. Why are daily quests something that everyone must absolutely do, no matter what? It's the shittiest non-content by far. They even nerfed AP gains from mythic+, so back to WQs for everyone.

Can I just clarify that nobody has to do any of these things? You put more time and effort into doing things, whether you want to or not, and you get rewarded for it. I'm sure people have aspects of their jobs that they hate, but guess what... it's what they signed up for. If you don't want to progress your character other than with someone else's efforts, join a guild that is okay with that.