PvP Lost Some Meaning

[Deleted]

The Ele sham I saw in one match was dogshit and that comp lost. Don't recall the team but in the next match they switched to another spec. Many Aff locks I've seen can't get a raid spot if they begged for one. It's not a L2P issue, it's shitty class design. And Destro, my main, is a joke. Class halls - LOL.

"No flying makes the game better". Yep. Like walking to work every day makes my life more interesting. I'm not getting any work done but at least I get a better look at the scenery. Maybe I should get a horse & buggy next month...

Yeah...but no. Remember "gear doesn't matter"? They've basically killed twinking too, but I do it to play with other twinks. There's no facerolling noobs unless someone is nearly naked in a bracket or they're mid-fighting mongoloids. What's more, I usually play the 2nd tier specs and rarely if ever the FotM OP specs, like right now Surv and Disc.

So much for your ignorant ASSumptions.

No CRZ lag? Hmm, funny because every time I go into SW or Org I have to wait quite awhile for everyone to zone in from umpteen other realms. Most of the time I can't even mount for 30 seconds or so. The same crap in Dal and Shrine. Try taking the boat from SW to Kalimdor. Half the time it doesn't materialize.

Blizz "bans" are a joke, and anyone with a brain knows it. The only ones they hate are gold botters because they see them as taking revenue from them so they get banned occasionally. Temp bans and even permas don't do much because they come right back with new accts. or wait it out. If they were serious they'd ban method-of-payment, hardware bans, and so on.

Fanboy harder.

Yeah you keep hating as hard as you can. Or maybe you can go and do something with your life that you enjoy, instead of shitposting all day in a fan forum.

[Dragoncurry]

MOBAs aren't MMOs.

One is based exactly on 100% equality and skill.

One is based on endless character progression.

PvP should always be 100% equality and skill too. (theres balance issues in all games).

The only place where endless character progression matters is an RPG where you fight a giant computer monster.

You'

[Clone]

Clearly those behind Legion design wanted to move the game away from being able to get what you want to RNG .. You see, before Legion, one could aim for specific gear and play to get it. Legion took that away from us and moved towards Asian/Korean style grind/RNG game design philosophy which assumes 'luck' to be the greatest contributor to ones 'success' in life.

Thing is Western Civilization believes that hard work pays off and 'luck' has very little to do with it. That does not mean every one gets what they want, it simply means if you do not work hard you can be assured you will never get what you want.

A subscription based MMO is not life, and those playing it want to have fun .. Extreme degrees of RNG are not fun ... From Legendaries to PvP loot-box .. Is Holinka part Asian?

Way to make assumptions about Asians and be wrong.

[Deleted]

i like the pvp in legion, these "multiclassers" swaping to what is favour of the month is gone. And that gap is gonna grow bigger.
We have no gear to buy i kinda miss that, but checking stats hopeing for drop/vendor on right stats, was not fun. Also reaching weapon then beeing stronger then rest of community for weeks was not fun at all. PvP should be equal, that makes it more fun.

I feel they are putting alot of effort in trying to balance with many hotfixes. I have high hopes for legion pvp, and also for beeing a S1 of a new Xpac. its better than we had in a looong time.

Now pvp is abit more equal for all, unless you dont farm AP. Thats on you.

[Chemii]

The faults of the gearing system are not "subjective" . The best way to gear and grind AP for PVP is through PVE. Period. That isn't an opinion but an objective fact.

Again, I've never once said that PvE wasn't the best way to gear, to gain item levels - that's still nothing to do with the PvP gearing system tho.

The entire Legion PVP experience is to make it enticing only for PVE players to do some PVP. Even as far as going to removing the cap on PVE gear in PVP, because PVE gear has always been the best gear in the game and why it was capped in PVP instances previous few expansions.

That may be so but that gear doesn't matter in instanced PvP, so what you are talking about is irrelevant.

If you're just mad that you can't 1 shot PvE players while ganking in the open world, well that just brings us back round to the start of this thread again.

Bye.

[Deleted]

MOBAs aren't MMOs.

One is based exactly on 100% equality and skill.

One is based on endless character progression.

Character progression means many things. In any good RPG, it would mean story, character choices and personality. In WOW its just a numbers game just like diablo. It cannot be an endless number game in PVP unless you create specific brackets for people according to their specific power level.

This gear treadmill is a PVE mechanic, pvp has no business with this because you are not slaying dragons anymore, you are fighting real people. You can't expect to make a good game where some guy with a lot of free time just destroys everyone else because he plays all the time. That is something that mobs have to suffer, not a player. Otherwise lets just alienate the majority of the playerbase to satisfy some elitists (its not even elitism since they just want to use unfairness to feel superior to anyone else)

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Pvp is a skill war not a gear check. So the removal of gear is the first good thing that happened to pvp in the last 5 years.

Now if you just pvp to gear better gear in order to faceroll undergeared people, then you're playing the wrong game.

I think that most people have played WoW pvp exactly for this reason, because it allows them to feel this illusory, virtual, power trip over "noobs, casuals".

It just took 10 years for Blizzard to figure out that it made no sense, gear customization was never a thing in pvp and that there wasn't any feeling of accomplishment by just afk farming gear during 2 weeks before you can actually be of any relevance in the game. Now maybe the dinosaurs at Blizzard can also stop, after 10 years, with their gear treadmill in PVE and actually offer some interesting experience, dynamic content in their open world because Azeroth sure feels like a fucking dead planet because of this stupid, lazy excuse of "endgame" mantra.

[Rolex Snob]

The irony of someone trying to assert themself as a badass with a my little pony avatar is palpable.

I was thinking the same thing, not sure whether to be disgusted by bronies or feel sorry for them. I think most of them were victims of bullying in their school days. I'm not condemning bullying though, the world needs bully's to keep people like that in check.

[Mafic]

Again, I've never once said that PvE wasn't the best way to gear, to gain item levels - that's still nothing to do with the PvP gearing system tho.

It makes the PVP gearing system pointless if the vast, vast majority of gearing options are in PVE now . The very reason why the PVP gear system separated from PVE in BC was because of this.

That may be so but that gear doesn't matter in instanced PvP, so what you are talking about is irrelevant.
.

You are wrong. Gear scales by ilevel even in instanced PVP. Gear with higher ilevel is easier to obtain in PVE scripted fights or just standing around in a tower for a quest.

if you're just mad that you can't 1 shot PvE players while ganking in the open world, well that just brings us back round to the start of this thread again.
.

When has PVP geared players been able to one shot PVE players? PVE has always had more health than PVP geared payers because PVE players have to deal with raid level damage. Are you referencing resilience? This has been a non issue in WoD/MoP. Are you a returning player from Cataclysm and missed the gear scaling in world PVP?

Bye
.

May the facerolling, soulless, neutered Legion Assassination Rogue and easy-mode face smothering Sub Rogue live forever. Honorable mention to Outlaw which has more RNG than Vegas. Legion is a catastrophe not only for PVP but also PVE.

[Cempa]

Pvp is a skill war not a gear check. So the removal of gear is the first good thing that happened to pvp in the last 5 years.

Now if you just pvp to get better gear in order to faceroll undergeared people, then you're playing the wrong game.

But that has always been WoW and ... wait for it .. Is still WoW today!

[Deleted]

But that has always been WoW and ... wait for it .. Is still WoW today!

No it isn't, at least in instanced pvp.

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You are wrong. Gear scales by ilevel even in instanced PVP. Gear with higher ilevel is easier to obtain in PVE scripted fights or just standing around in a tower for a quest.
.

Do you STILL not understand that there is like a 4% stat difference between a full mythic player and a player with the base PVP gear? And if you're a good enough PVP player for that stat difference to actually matter, you'll be getting mythic ilvl gear too from PVP.

[Cempa]

No it isn't, at least in instanced pvp.

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Do you STILL not understand that there is like a 4% stat difference between a full mythic player and a player with the base PVP gear? And if you're a good enough PVP player for that stat difference to actually matter, you'll be getting mythic ilvl gear too from PVP.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -Mark Twain

It used to be that gear played a significant part in character strength .. I forget the exact % between highest ilvl and tier before it but I think its near 10% .. Now think about that .. 10% meant roflstomp .. We all know what that looks and feels like from both ends ..

So now comes Legion with the huge marketing budget that has worked on you my friend really well .. Its only 4% don't worry about gear .. All the while sneaking in a HUGE part of character overall strength in Artifacts Talents as well as PvP talents ..

Next comes the other part of the Act-Blizz spin machine which started right out of the gate during launch: Artifact Catch Up Mechanic .. 'The Game' will know .. Sounds like 'Resilience' will fix it BS to me loool

So you see not only will fresh toons get roflstomped they need many weeks of getting ROFLSTOMPED before they can even consider having fun ..

[pay928]

Moba's have progression - be it leveling your account to unlock abilities / passive bonuses or unlocking new fotm champs
WoW's endgame has no endless progression - everyone get's capped in gear at the end of a season.

LoL has that. Don't believe Dota 2 does, nor does Smite if you buy the one time champion pack.

[Deleted]

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -Mark Twain

It used to be that gear played a significant part in character strength .. I forget the exact % between highest ilvl and tier before it but I think its near 10% .. Now think about that .. 10% meant roflstomp .. We all know what that looks and feels like from both ends ..

So now comes Legion with the huge marketing budget that has worked on you my friend really well .. Its only 4% don't worry about gear .. All the while sneaking in a HUGE part of character overall strength in Artifacts Talents as well as PvP talents ..

Next comes the other part of the Act-Blizz spin machine which started right out of the gate during launch: Artifact Catch Up Mechanic .. 'The Game' will know .. Sounds like 'Resilience' will fix it BS to me loool

So you see not only will fresh toons get roflstomped they need many weeks of getting ROFLSTOMPED before they can even consider having fun ..

The difference between a high ilvl char and a fresh max level used to be HUGE, not even close to 10%, it was more like 50% or higher. You literally didn't stand a chance, you basically got one shot by people who didn't know what the fuck they were doing. 4% is NOTHING compared to that.

I'm fully aware artifacts are important, and I'd like artifact knowledge to be account wide so alters are easier to maintain, but isn't nearly as bad as some people say. You can get the first 2 golden traits in no time, and I don't know if you're actually playing the game or you just come here to hate on it, but the catchup mechanic is real. Artifact knowledge takes like 2-3 days instead of 5 for new chars right now, and it's apparently going down. You'll proably still be behind in AP, but not by much.

You can get your full honor talents in a few days if you're an actual pvp player, and for some specs it's even easier as they don't need the later ones. I'd like to be able to prestige without losing them, but thankfully Blizzard listened to us and that's coming in 7.1.

So as you can see, no one's getting "ROFLSTOMPED" unless their problem is skill, and there isn't some secret "Act-Blizz spin machine" conspiracy. I'm sure Blizzard are doing the best they can, and most people are really happy with Legion so far, despite people on this forum hating on everything WoW related in here.

[Rolex Snob]

Don't forget these people that complain about gear difference don't realize that's 800 vs 900 is only 10%. The amount of players you will see around 900 ilvl are very slim and if you're a fresh level character and can't get to at least 825 ilvl in the first day then you don't deserve shit. You guys act like you ONLY pvp; if you play this game JUST for pvp then you're doing it way wrong. I am as far as you can get from a PvE raiding hero yet I am sitting at 855 ilvl; if anything I spend more time doing world quests and world pvping than anything. I have ZERO desire to arena or BG since i'm having so much fun in world pvp...been gladiator 5 times, got my arena master and RBG titles so I could give two fucks about being competitive anymore...I just want to destroy people in world pvp.

ZERO interest in joining a random BG queue.

[Deleted]

Says who? 10char

What an asinine question, that is only asked by someone acting this obtuse.


PVP is a competition, the entire point of competition is to put people at equal footing.


Make no mistake, you are not asking some deep philosophical question here, you are just acting obtuse for the sake of being a contriarian hipster.

What is your next asinine question? "Is anyone really equal?"? Because that is what you are doing this entire thread, pretending to ask deep questions and think you are offering some sort rebutals, all which are intellectually dishonest and poorly argumented.

[Caolela]

Yeah you keep hating as hard as you can. Or maybe you can go and do something with your life that you enjoy, instead of shitposting all day in a fan forum.

Giving the facts isn't "hating", Blizz has caused the negativity themselves. Time to grow up, kiddo.

When you realize that WoW is a sub-based game, therefore anything Blizz can do to drag out your time in game is to their benefit - not yours - then you'll know the reasons behind everything they do to fuck up your experience.

MMO-C isn't a forum just to fawn over game companies like the Blizz forums. It's here for honest critique and observations.

[Deleted]

Giving the facts isn't "hating", Blizz has caused the negativity themselves. Time to grow up, kiddo.

When you realize that WoW is a sub-based game, therefore anything Blizz can do to drag out your time in game is to their benefit - not yours - then you'll know the reasons behind everything they do to fuck up your experience.

MMO-C isn't a forum just to fawn over game companies like the Blizz forums. It's here for honest critique and observations.

I just explained why all the nonsense you're spewing aren't "facts". And what you're doing isn't honest critique, it's blindlessly hating on everything WoW related without using anything that closely resembles reason. Why don't you try to read what I wrote and tell me why it isn't true?

[Mafic]

Don't forget these people that complain about gear difference don't realize that's 800 vs 900 is only 10%. The amount of players you will see around 900 ilvl are very slim and if you're a fresh level character and can't get to at least 825 ilvl in the first day then you don't deserve shit. You guys act like you ONLY pvp; if you play this game JUST for pvp then you're doing it way wrong. I am as far as you can get from a PvE raiding hero yet I am sitting at 855 ilvl; if anything I spend more time doing world quests and world pvping than anything. I have ZERO desire to arena or BG since i'm having so much fun in world pvp...been gladiator 5 times, got my arena master and RBG titles so I could give two fucks about being competitive anymore...I just want to destroy people in world pvp.

ZERO interest in joining a random BG queue.

Players in 660 + gear are already smashing players of lower level gear in PVP despite the "normalization". As artifact weapons progress with ilevel it will only worsen over time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olSFsrgP-rc

At least Hazzed is having fun despite DK's being in a sore spot for PVP.

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What an asinine question, that is only asked by someone acting this obtuse.


PVP is a competition, the entire point of competition is to put people at equal footing.


Make no mistake, you are not asking some deep philosophical question here, you are just acting obtuse for the sake of being a contriarian hipster.

What is your next asinine question? "Is anyone really equal?"? Because that is what you are doing this entire thread, pretending to ask deep questions and think you are offering some sort rebutals, all which are intellectually dishonest and poorly argumented.

Blizzard has made it worse in Legion not better as there is no equal footing in PVP like the past:

*Everyone, everyone could eventually obtain all conquest gear to be on a equal footing
*Low geared players were scaled up in instanced and world PVP. PVE gear was brought down and capped in instanced PVP and PVP gear scaled up in world PVP.
*Conquest catchup mechanic allowed players to catch up within 1 month.
*Honor points gained even through losses to slowly build a starting set of PVP honor gear.

Legion:

*You will always be behind someone in item level, mainly due to RNG.
*Low geared players are scaled up but the cap has been removed in instanced PVP meaning ilevel scales out of control in instanced PVP despite normalization. Furthermore, there is no more scaling for PVP gear in world PVP.
*Artifact catchup mechanics are a joke. Gear drops are dominantly RNG.
*Even when you win, there is a chance you do not receive a gear upgrade, marks of honor or artifact power.

[Rolex Snob]

Players in 660 + gear are already smashing players of lower level gear in PVP despite the "normalization". As artifact weapons progress with ilevel it will only worsen over time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olSFsrgP-rc

At least Hazzed is having fun despite DK's being in a sore spot for PVP.

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Blizzard has made it worse in Legion not better as there is no equal footing in PVP like the past:

*Everyone, everyone could eventually obtain all conquest gear to be on a equal footing
*Low geared players were scaled up in instanced and world PVP. PVE gear was brought down and capped in instanced PVP and PVP gear scaled up in world PVP.
*Conquest catchup mechanic allowed players to catch up within 1 month.
*Honor points gained even through losses to slowly build a starting set of PVP honor gear.

Legion:

*You will always be behind someone in item level, mainly due to RNG.
*Low geared players are scaled up but the cap has been removed in instanced PVP meaning ilevel scales out of control in instanced PVP despite normalization. Furthermore, there is no more scaling for PVP gear in world PVP.
*Artifact catchup mechanics are a joke. Gear drops are dominantly RNG.
*Even when you win, there is a chance you do not receive a gear upgrade, marks of honor or artifact power.

I think that video is more of a better player beating up on lesser players. I have seriously seen some of the worst pvpers ever in random BGs. Could be bots too, like that warlock that tried to fear AMS.

[Deleted]

Players in 660 + gear are already smashing players of lower level gear in PVP despite the "normalization". As artifact weapons progress with ilevel it will only worsen over time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olSFsrgP-rc

At least Hazzed is having fun despite DK's being in a sore spot for PVP.

How is that video supposed to prove anything? Lmao it's just some dude killing noobs in BG, anyone with a sliver of skill can do that with a 800 ilvl char.