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  1. #181
    This is one of the few cases I absolutely do not agree with the word "forced". At best, you're spending hours upon hours extra farming AP for a few percentage DPS increase a week or two earlier.

    Example.. there's a guy with nearly twice the AP I have. He has a grand total of 3 more traits in his main weapon. I'll get those 3 traits in a week or two with extremely less effort and time invested.

  2. #182
    Deleted
    For me the worst offender is the cost of flaks and pots. You have to farm 2 evenings per week to keep up with the consumptions.

    Newsflash!!! Herbing nodes isn't fun!

    Aside from that the second worst offender is the gearing. Atm theres gearing traps all over the game. Ilvl? Doesn't mean you will do good.
    In an effort to control stat inflation, instead of making another squish, they increased the value of secondaries and decreased the value of primary stats. Result? Gearing chaos as items that are 30 ilvl upgrades are actually downgrades. Necks, rings higher ilvl versus a socket? Socket is better. What is even the point of ilvl if you get your best stuff from lower ilvl?!

    More on professions. Rank 3's in flaks and herbing! Insanely hard to get! Almost as difficult as the legendaries, wich shouldn't have damage boosting effects because they introduce huge inbalances.

    In general, unlike warlords, wich had little content or content you didn't want to do, but the one that was desierable was fun and balanced... Legion has the content, but the enjoyment of that content is gated behind all this RNG.

    Its too much! Fix it!!

    Oh and the AP. Add a weekly cap! We want to be able to keep up with our peers without losing our lives. This would unlock the barrier behind alts aswell.
    Last edited by mmoc80be7224cc; 2016-10-14 at 01:10 AM.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    For me the worst offender is the cost of flaks and pots. You have to farm 2 evenings per week to keep up with the consumptions.

    Newsflash!!! Herbing nodes isn't fun!

    Aside from that the second worst offender is the gearing. Atm theres gearing traps all over the game. Ilvl? Doesn't mean you will do good.
    In an effort to control stat inflation, instead of making another squish, they increased the value of secondaries and decreased the value of primary stats. Result? Gearing chaos as items that are 30 ilvl upgrades are actually downgrades. Necks, rings higher ilvl versus a socket? Socket is better. What is even the point of ilvl if you get your best stuff from lower ilvl?!

    More on professions. Rank 3's in flaks and herbing! Insanely hard to get! Almost as difficult as the legendaries, wich shouldn't have damage boosting effects because they introduce huge inbalances.

    In general, unlike warlords, wich had little content or content you didn't want to do, but the one that was desierable was fun and balanced... Legion has the content, but the enjoyment of that content is gated behind all this RNG.

    Its too much! Fix it!!

    Oh and the AP. Add a weekly cap! We want to be able to keep up with our peers without losing our lives. This would unlock the barrier behind alts aswell.
    2 evenings a week of farming for your consumables? 2 hours a week should be more than enough (don't farm the cheap herbs, farm expensive ones and sell them to buy the cheap ones).

    Regarding rank 3 flasks I thought it was rewarding for those who got it, making it easy to get diminishes it's value. It took me about 450 flasks to get the Whispered Pact one (int) and made a ton of gold out of it. The grind to get it sucked and I almost gave up at one point but it felt rewarding with the gold I made out of it due to the rarity of it at the time (had it before first week of raids).

    Also regarding AP don’t stress about it too much. You get about 6 levels of knowledge in a month.

    Right now we are at 500% knowledge if you started just after launch and will have knowledge levels of:
    1 Month from now - 2,250%
    2 months - 9,000%
    3 months - 24,900%

    So basically doing 50 quests now will be the same as doing 1 quest in 3 months time and you’ll smash through the levels.

    The one thing I agree with you on is gearing traps, it takes a bit of research to know what gear is the best to have especially for classes like Holy Paladin where you have a funky mastery mechanic (works better the closer you are to the person you are healing).

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    I find it very hard to believe that you are a hardcore raider. They tend to not whine and just get on with whatever needs to be done.
    this is how i see it, if you were "hardcore" then you knew what you signed up for

  5. #185
    if you're raiding mythic and there's more than 20 people on the team/guild then someone isn't going to be playing

    if you aren't okay with that someone being you then raid with a group that doesn't do mythic

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    if you're raiding mythic and there's more than 20 people on the team/guild then someone isn't going to be playing

    if you aren't okay with that someone being you then raid with a group that doesn't do mythic
    Or roll a Warrior, spec prot and be good..

  7. #187
    Well eventually you will max out on ap, only so many traits on the weapons after all.

  8. #188
    Maybe you should find a guild where the raiders are on the same commitment level as you? I stepped down from hard core raiding a few years ago, going to a guild where people put in approximately the same amount of time as me (2-4 hours a night). We still clear content while it's relevant and I feel much happier not having the pressure of "have to play 8+ hours a day during progress".

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by xazrael View Post
    Hey guys,
    WARNING: THIS IS A BITCHING POST, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR COMPLAINING, PLEASE LEAVE.

    I am a member of a decently hardcore raiding guild. We don't raid too much, but we are expected to pull high dps (280k minimum on Mythic Ursoc).
    Now, almost all of my friends in this guild, are artifact level 25+, Ilvl 870+, and almost all have legendarys.
    I am sitting at artifact level 22, 865 Ilvl, and the stupid PVP legendary ring.
    I am now starting to get sat on progression, because I am one of our lowest dps.

    Past expansions, I would put all of my time into raiding, and doing raid strats. I rarely, if ever farmed mats, farmed world drops, or farmed heroic dungeons. However, I was consistently one of the better raiders in the West. (MOP and WOD, I had top 100 parses on most fights).
    I have put the same amount of time into this expansion, however I am falling terribly short. And here are the reasons (and thus, the things wrong with this expansion)

    1. RNGendarys. At this point, most hardcore raiders have gotten a legendary. However, whether you have gotten the best or the worst, severely impacts you. I got pretty much the worst. The ring has bad itemization for my class, and basically can't proc in raids. Another player on my server, got the boots. It is known that I am a better player than him (my guild sat him over me in WoD, and he left the guild). Just because he has the boots, he now parses higher than me, with equal Ilvl. Nothing I can do about it, except pray for RNG on my next legendary. Next, my raid leader, has gotten 4 Legendarys! 4!? Like how the actual fu......
    And that doesn't help my case when he performs the same role as me (ranged dps)

    2. Grindifact Power. In all past expansions, what could you do outside of raids to help you progress. Farm raid mats? Okay sure. Farm heroics for VP? No problem. Did dailies give you pretty much anything except some cosmetic items and maybe access to an enchant? No.
    However, now outside of raids, you can improve your dps doing ANYTHING. WOOO sounds awesome right?! Maybe if it had a cap.
    AP can be farmed infinitely, and depending on the class, can increase your dps by 2-5k each trait.
    Just because I don't spend 10 hours a day on wow outside of raids, I am behind a potential 20-30k DPS. WTF.

    3. RNGforged. I was playing in MoP when they introduced Thunderforged, and Warforged. I thought at the time, it was a decent idea. It did make us want to go back and kill bosses more often just to get a chance for a higher ilvl or a socket. Even in WoD it was fine.
    But then someone thought, lets make all gear able to become Warforged, and not put a cap on it. Wouldn't it be great if you were questing, and the 835 trinket you wanted, ended up dropping as a 885? Sure, but even if that happens, raid stuff will be better right? Right?
    No.
    Many classes, a titanforge proc from a stat trinket, or trinket from a mythic dungeon, will be better than ANYTHING available in raid (same with relics).
    This is literally the first time, I have ever seen hardcore guilds 7/7 mythic, and their raiders are using non raid gear. (3+ pieces non raid).
    If it was just Mythic + gear, I wouldn't be complaining.

    4. Mythic infinity. Now this one is less of a problem in my eyes, but definitely has its issues. I love the idea of Mythic +. Being able to make dungeons relevant during raids has always been a problem for blizzard. I like the affix's. I like the gear reward. Hell, I am even fine with the weekly chest reward being better than mythic raid gear (+10 gives you an 885). However, utilizing xrealm, and having a good friendbase, allows you to do an infinite amount.
    You should be limited to just 1 groups keystones, or maybe disable xrealm for mythic +, or have a weekly limit (8 mythic + limit or something like that).
    Most of my guild does 10+ mythic +s. I manage to usually get 5 done. (1 +10 minimum for the weekly)

    I understand, this forum houses very few hardcore raiders. So maybe this falls on deaf ears. But all of this is definitely a problem for any hardcore raider, that still managed to have a life. Blizzard effectively is bridging the gap even further from casual to hardcore. In most hardcore guilds now, I guess I would be casual, even though I spend 20-30 hours a week on WoW.

    Don't respond with "they are dumb for expecting that much", or "rewarding someone for playing more?! NO WAI!!".
    This is a complaint post, and I am just seeing if other raiders are feeling the same way.
    "I don't play much, but I want everything here and now, and god forbid those who play more gets more stuff than me"
    OP fuck you and your idiotic opinion, because of people like you Blizzard put caps on every single fucking shit possible in their games.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    that trait as all paragon levels after it are meant as obvious overtime nerf to the content - its not different then vp gear upgrades therefore it shouldnt kick in too soon.
    Its a wierd overtime nerf if thats theire intention, since when the next tier hits everyone will have it already and top guild will grind till they get it before Nighthold you cna be sure of it.

  11. #191
    Deleted
    I've seen that even casual guilds expects you to farm mythic+ which is crazy. Personally I don't like them so it's stupid that now doing them is mandatory even for casuals.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tianae View Post
    I've seen that even casual guilds expects you to farm mythic+ which is crazy. Personally I don't like them so it's stupid that now doing them is mandatory even for casuals.
    Find a different guild. My guild is pretty casual and we've managed to clear heroic mode without pushing m+ farm on anybody.

  13. #193
    Fluffy Kitten Aurora's Avatar
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    I like all the things mentioned and think they contribute to the most significant problem throughout recent expansions of there being absolutely nothing to do in the game outside of raiding that produces any sort of tangible performance return. It sounds like you settled into that pattern and don't have the time to adjust, perhaps mythic raiding is no longer for you in that case and this is fine since it'll open the door for many others who prefer a gearing model which isn't entirely built around short bursts of content for a few hours a week.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by xazrael View Post
    4. Mythic infinity. Now this one is less of a problem in my eyes, but definitely has its issues. I love the idea of Mythic +. Being able to make dungeons relevant during raids has always been a problem for blizzard. I like the affix's. I like the gear reward. Hell, I am even fine with the weekly chest reward being better than mythic raid gear (+10 gives you an 885). However, utilizing xrealm, and having a good friendbase, allows you to do an infinite amount.
    You should be limited to just 1 groups keystones, or maybe disable xrealm for mythic +, or have a weekly limit (8 mythic + limit or something like that).
    Most of my guild does 10+ mythic +s. I manage to usually get 5 done. (1 +10 minimum for the weekly)
    I am not playing right now but raided hardcore in the past and I agree with your other points and just wanted to reply on this one.

    Having caps on your grind (daily and/or weekly caps on valor points for example) is really annoying because you can't play when you want to play. So this change is in the right direction and, if I am ever going to play again, I hope they don't go back to caps like that. The problem lies in this grind being infinite with warforged etc. It would be cool if you could still get one or two upgrades (that not everyone needs and you don't necessarily need) at some point but not infinite upgrades so there is basically no end in sight.

    And another problem, not really related to this, is that dungeons become super repetitive. It's still much better than in MoP when they made raiders grind valor points in 5 man dungeons, to keep them relevant and keep queues short, that were made for freshly dinged max level players. At the end of the expansion you would queue up for a dungeon and end up in a group where one player could solo the entire place in a few minutes, that's just really bad design.

    I don't get how Blizzard is still not getting it after 12 years or whatever it is. It's ofcourse not easy but come on... Nobody is really gaining anything from an infinite grind for gear. Since day one of WoW nobody really liked farming raids (or dungeons for that matter), they liked progressing through them! And not spamming them to no end!
    It's like they make mistake after mistake... in an effort to patch them up with the mindset of making as much money as possible with as little effort as possible instead of making it (more) fun to play (it's obviously fun but I think you know what I mean).
    Last edited by Gilian; 2016-10-14 at 09:19 AM.

  15. #195
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Celadir View Post
    Advise coming from history as a hardcore raider in US Top 50...maybe you (OP) should seek out a guild that clears heroic content/mythic+ dungeons and is happy with that. I hated having to transition away from 20+ hrs of playing per week (five 4 hour raid nights, not including farming mats, rep, etc...), but life after graduating college does not allow me to play a hardcore schedule so I bumped down to heroic; it seems a heroic content level may be a happier place for you, too. A lot of people have hit the nail on the head describing what it takes to reach "hardcore" raiding status and honestly that isn't going to change. I had a hard time accepting not doing mythic raiding, but I wanted to play so I adapted to an easier difficulty. Either you have the time/disc to do it or you don't (this includes alts). If you want to avoid being sat due to performance limitations whether that be current class status, you're completely hammered, or RNG related status of gear then I would recommend heroic content. Heroic may be faceroll and not the hardest difficutly, but put on some music, chat in discord, and eat burritos (all while playing haha) and you may discover you like it...I've come to enjoy the casual lifestyle.
    I was not in a top 50 guild, but I had to scale down to heroic too (6/7 now jeej) due to time limitations. Though to accept at start and sometimes hard to adjust to because of the difference in the level of awareness. But at least I get to raid without messing up my RL obligations.

  16. #196
    I was consistently one of the better raiders in the West. (MOP and WOD, I had top 100 parses on most fights).
    ............
    It is known that I am a better player than him (my guild sat him over me in WoD, and he left the guild).
    Always makes me cringe when I read shit like that.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    @OP

    I didn't like your post in terms of complaining about what others get that you don't get and how that affects you. First of all mate and Im sure someone else also told you, 22 traits? Seriously? Im pvper and casual and at 28. So before you start raising eyebrows and telling us how the bads got more legendaries than you and how they got benched one expansion ago maybe now you are the bad and the bads evolved.
    28 is not that casual though, thats >1026350 AP if you dont go into an offspec.

    Looking at this (http://www.wowprogress.com/artifact_power/us) it puts you into roughly top 1000 US too, I don't really get how that's casual.

  18. #198
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Sounds like a "you" problem, OP.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2016-10-14 at 11:14 AM.

  19. #199
    Deleted
    I think people focus on wrong issue here, topic is not about OP hardcoreness. I more or less agree with OP.

  20. #200
    High Overlord Onizuka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    I find it very hard to believe that you are a hardcore raider. They tend to not whine and just get on with whatever needs to be done.
    I think you are mistaking hardcore gamers with leading edge gamers.
    Hardcore ones are not top end game leaders...they are trying to closely follow the Leading edge gamers.

    20-30 hours per week are not considered as enough for top performance.
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