[TV] Marvel's Luke Cage

[Jotaux]

At one point a character suggests he hire himself out and I was thinking "Oh nice! Hero for Hire!"...nope Luke shoots that down. I am disapoint.

Thats actually something that bothered me as well.

[BloodyAngel12]

Thats actually something that bothered me as well.

Why blow your load early?

Got to save something for season 2

[Svifnymr]

It's kind of a shame we (probably) won't get any hero for hire stuff out of this version of Luke, but they seem to be trying to steer clear of Blaxspolitation (A shame as I always liked that version of Luke Cage a bit ore than the generic bald strong man he seems to be sometimes in the comics)

All the barber shop talk really had me thinking they'd end the season with them hanging a sign up, but nope, just another ending cliffhanger that isn't really a cliffhanger.

[Feredir]

So, this is how his costume played out in comics.

[Deleted]

Method Man was so random yet so awesome. Great soundtrack as well.

except his song was a plot hole, he mentions president obama who doesn't exist in the MCU

one thing that caught my attention throughout the series was how much MCU name droping it had, JJ references the "battle of new york" but this mentions stark, Captain America and most interestingly features Hammer tech which should still be tied to the Ironman licence

[Shadowferal]

For the most part I enjoyed the show, but there were a few times I felt like the show was trolling fans.

At one point a character suggests he hire himself out and I was thinking "Oh nice! Hero for Hire!"...nope Luke shoots that down. I am disapoint.

A few episodes later shows Luke in a version of his classic costume...for 2 seconds until he insults it and throws the headband away. I am...feel vaguely insulted? I always liked his classic costume, so...I dunno.

Overall tho, it kind of annoyed me how much Luke resists being a super hero in this show (In hindsight...he doesn't really do much heroing at all).
He was still likeable, unlike Jessica Jones, whose show seemed to really want to make it hard to empathize with her. (And it wasn't at the level of heroes the show, where the characters start as assholes with powers and end as assholes with powers. Luke at least IS a superhero by the end)
I won't say anything for the ending, but I think has a good setup for bringing Luke into the Defenders. I'm also looking forward to seeing Luke interact with Matt Murdoch and with Daredevil.

It's kind of a shame we (probably) won't get any hero for hire stuff out of this version of Luke, but they seem to be trying to steer clear of Blaxspolitation (A shame as I always liked that version of Luke Cage a bit ore than the generic bald strong man he seems to be sometimes in the comics)

It's probably a set-up for another hero to come in and talk him into the hero mold...to be a role-model.
Also one has to consider the mindset of Cage. The situations he's already been through. He's not a kid that wants to play "Kickass" and "play" at being a superhero. At some point a person just want to be left alone. Or as the case may be, "Don't start nothing, and there won't be nothing."
The upshot I believe the writers are going for is a logical reasonable connection to the desire to be a superhero. And I think we do want it to make sense.

[SavoirFaire]

I overall enjoyed the series. Hard to say where it ranks for me among the Marvel Netflix series as I have liked them all.

However, I thought we were going to get a series that chronicled the rise of Black Mariah and the fall of Cottonmouth, and generally we did, but it really seems like it got cut short and wasn't allowed to play out. It felt like a show where someone wanted to quit mid season, or they got some awesome star they wanted to cram in mid season, and they rushed a storyline just to adapt to the change. Diamondback felt really out of place in the show to me. We had a gangster style buildup with Cottonmouth and the corruption of a politician, then we end up with comic book "crazy" bad guy. I know I audibly groaned when the epilogue showed that Diamondback was going to get a treatment as well.

I also noticed the name drops for the wider MCU were much more prevalent in this show than the others, and I'm not sure why. I have binge watched (for me) DD S1/S2 and now JJ S1 and LC S1 in the space of about a month, and am really looking forward to Iron Fist. Such a shame Cloak and Dagger aren't getting the Netflix treatment, I feel they could fit well into the world building that has taken place here.

[Endus]

It's probably a set-up for another hero to come in and talk him into the hero mold...to be a role-model.
Also one has to consider the mindset of Cage. The situations he's already been through. He's not a kid that wants to play "Kickass" and "play" at being a superhero. At some point a person just want to be left alone. Or as the case may be, "Don't start nothing, and there won't be nothing."
The upshot I believe the writers are going for is a logical reasonable connection to the desire to be a superhero. And I think we do want it to make sense.

Well, no, the reason we're not doing the Heroes for Hire thing is because we're doing The Defenders thing. You gotta remember; all four of these Netflix series are building up to that team combo. Luke Cage's first season isn't meant to be Luke's entire story, it's his introduction. While I agree in general that the villains were comparatively weak (Diamondback, Mariah, and Cottonmouth are none of them on par with Kingpin or the Purple Man), those villains in the prior series largely had greater motivations. Kingpin is a major player in the New York scene. I wouldn't be shocked to find out he's the "big bad" in The Defenders, honestly. The Purple Man, similarly, keeps cropping up, and his powers are pretty frightening. Diamondback wasn't a major player in the comics, and his role here was less to be a villain in his own right, and more to be the Cain to Luke's Abel. In a pretty literal sense. It's more about defining exactly who Luke is than it's about expanding the setting.

And you're right; the whole point of the Cage they've built is that he's not someone who's suffered and is lashing out (Daredevil), not someone who's been damaged and has to fight through that (Jessica Jones), he's been run roughshod by the system. He's a walking symbol that the government isn't always on the side of the people. That's what his origin speaks to, with his being framed for a crime he didn't commit, and the experimentation he went through. The abuses by the prison administration. It's what the shenanigans in the police corruption in Harlem spoke to, while also highlighting that there ARE good cops, and the system often hamstrings them from doing what needs to be done.

Daredevil's fundamentally about "how far is too far". Jessica Jones was about how you can't let your past trauma control you. Luke, on the other hand, is the first to really dig into being a hero. Matt's self-destructive and uberviolent, which isn't all that heroic. Jessica didn't want to get involved, but circumstances conspired to leave her a choice between doing so, and losing herself to her past. Luke didn't want to get involved either, but he chose to involve himself, for the right reasons. It's basically a less-saccharine version of the "with great power comes great responsibility" mantra Parker always goes on about. I'm betting that when we get around to The Defenders, Luke's going to be the moral center of the team, the same way that Cap is for The Avengers.

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However, I thought we were going to get a series that chronicled the rise of Black Mariah and the fall of Cottonmouth, and generally we did, but it really seems like it got cut short and wasn't allowed to play out.

You gotta remember, Mariah WON. She's the big winner after everything shakes down. Her cousin's out of the way and not screwing her over. Diamondback's not hanging over her. Luke's being handled (though it's clear that won't stick). It's not highlighted nearly enough, IMO, but the issue is that Mariah's a subtle character. She's not going to do the villain monologue. She's just going to smirk and get on with things.

I do think they took too long setting it up, and they were probably too subtle in how they filmed it so it's easy to miss a lot of what happened in the finale. But I think the material's THERE.

I also noticed the name drops for the wider MCU were much more prevalent in this show than the others, and I'm not sure why. I have binge watched (for me) DD S1/S2 and now JJ S1 and LC S1 in the space of about a month, and am really looking forward to Iron Fist. Such a shame Cloak and Dagger aren't getting the Netflix treatment, I feel they could fit well into the world building that has taken place here.

Everything's settling in and Netflix is a comfortable and wildly successful component of the greater MCU, now, is what's happened IMO.

And I wouldn't presume that they're only going with these four, forever. They wanted to build these four up for The Defenders, but after that, who knows?

Cloak and Dagger are an obvious option. And I would give my left kidney for a Neflix season of Moon Knight. Though I'll freely admit that Moon Knight's weird as balls and shouldn't be one of the lead-in series.

[BloodyAngel12]

Heroes for hire will not happen till Luke meets Danny for the first time.

Personally i would love some more street levels heroes getting Netflix shows. Would love Blade, MoonKnight or any others to get a shot.

[Cattleya]

I just hope the second season isn't going to focus on Mariah, Shades and a now superpowered Diamondback, like the ending to this season teases/implies. It'd feel like a lazy rehash.

[grandpab]

Unfortunately I think this season was my least favorite between the 3 heros. He's probably the strongest hero between DD and JJ, and they gave him the worst enemies. Plus Cottonmouth goes out like a little bitch. It wasn't a bad story. I just thought there'd be a little more action with people that weren't so regular.

[Endus]

Unfortunately I think this season was my least favorite between the 3 heros. He's probably the strongest hero between DD and JJ, and they gave him the worst enemies.

He's a bulletproof man with super strength. They could have either given him a super villain to punch with, which inevitably would have turned out like the somewhat disappointing Diamondback fight in the finale but repeated EVERY EPISODE, or they could have dealt with the human consequences of being "out" as an enhanced human, which is what they did.

Luke's greatest weakness has never been special bullets that can punch through his skin, it's been that everyone knows exactly who he is, so they can pretty easily attack the people he knows to get at Cage himself.

[Svifnymr]

Unfortunately I think this season was my least favorite between the 3 heros. He's probably the strongest hero between DD and JJ, and they gave him the worst enemies. Plus Cottonmouth goes out like a little bitch. It wasn't a bad story. I just thought there'd be a little more action with people that weren't so regular.

I think they had a theme they wanted to run with, so they did, even if it sort of didn't work. Sure Cage is invincible, but they really don't show the repercussions on those around him very well. Chinese restaurant gets hit with a missile, but he saves her. When he promised her to always be there, I figured it meant they were going to get gunned down to show he can't protect them from his own stupidity, but that fizzled. When Cottonmouth had his men shake everyone down and say "thank luke cage", he just walked over, took their stuff back and no biggie. He routinely slaps folks unconscious and they're fine when they wake up? Wierd.

The cops show how wasn't the guy that killed that one cop, but they ignore that he did assault the other two, even while saving one of them when the other opened fire (in a very badly timed scene, just felt slow paced). Nothing in Luke Cage felt like there was danger in any of the conflicts.

[SavoirFaire]

He's a bulletproof man with super strength. They could have either given him a super villain to punch with, which inevitably would have turned out like the somewhat disappointing Diamondback fight in the finale but repeated EVERY EPISODE, or they could have dealt with the human consequences of being "out" as an enhanced human, which is what they did.

I guess we are in agreement then just that what you see as subtle I see more as being rushed to make room for other plot points. Maybe I should give the final episode a re-watch. I felt the Mariah/cottonmouth story could have been more compelling than diamondback and filled in the whole season. Sadly just as we started to see cottonmouth's background and how he got where he was, he got killed. They could have played up the fact that each of them got put on their respective paths because of others, and how their paths were switching because of Cage, as Cottonmouth's style of fighting cage (bullets) was useless, but Mariah's style (political) was highly effective. Then shown Cottonmouth trying to get out of the criminal business and into music and how hard that would be, mirroring how hard it is to turn criminal lives around.

I think the show overall showed that being bulletproof and punching stuff didn't really do much of anything to long term help the people of Harlem, and I think that's always a good angle to take on a superhero: that they make minor contributions but tend to be overall useless to effect big societal change. I did think Mariah's story was the best part of the series, and I enjoyed how Shades kept weaseling his way out of trouble to climb the criminal ladder. I really hope to see more of them in Luke Cage S2 or as the broader part of the Defenders.

[Endus]

I guess we are in agreement then just that what you see as subtle I see more as being rushed to make room for other plot points. Maybe I should give the final episode a re-watch.

FWIW, by "subtle" I'm really just referring to Mariah's actions at the police station and afterwards. Her shifts in behaviour as new information comes in are REALLY critical, here, because it becomes really clear how much of her early behaviour is just a manipulation, even though they don't come right out and parade it around. It speaks to how proficient she is at manipulating others and presenting herself in the best light, as well as how quickly she thinks on her feet.

It's mostly setup to make her a really strong foil in a future season of something, now that they've gotten her origin out of the way. By establishing this here, when she snaps from one behaviour to another, it's clearly her swapping facades rather than "bad acting".

I felt the Mariah/cottonmouth story could have been more compelling than diamondback and filled in the whole season. Sadly just as we started to see cottonmouth's background and how he got where he was, he got killed. They could have played up the fact that each of them got put on their respective paths because of others, and how their paths were switching because of Cage, as Cottonmouth's style of fighting cage (bullets) was useless, but Mariah's style (political) was highly effective. Then shown Cottonmouth trying to get out of the criminal business and into music and how hard that would be, mirroring how hard it is to turn criminal lives around.

I actually agree, here. If I were writing it, Diamondback would've been a hired gun pulled in by Cottonmouth, not the supposed puppet master. He's scary enough in that role, and leaves the plotting to Cottonmouth/Mariah. The ONLY good thing to come out of Diamondback's involvement was Shades, who I really enjoyed as a character. Otherwise, Diamondback is important to fleshing out Luke's backstory, but didn't serve well as a "big bad" in any way that wouldn't have been better served, IMO, with Cottonmouth/Mariah.

I think the show overall showed that being bulletproof and punching stuff didn't really do much of anything to long term help the people of Harlem, and I think that's always a good angle to take on a superhero: that they make minor contributions but tend to be overall useless to effect big societal change.

The other angle they hit on was that yes, it's great, but it's so limited. There's a lot of problems you can't punch, and a lot of wounds that aren't physical. For instance, Luke's abilities didn't help save Pop. He managed to save that one kid, but Pop didn't make it. That's his fulcrum moment, and it's tied directly to that; his powers mean he can do something, but he can't protect everyone, so he'll often (in the future) have to fold before pressure from people like Cottonmouth/Mariah. If just to keep his people safe.

Which doesn't mean THEY can run roughshod. They have to work out some acceptable compromise. That'll be an interesting arc, if they run with it. Luke takes out Mariah's drug ring, Mariah responds by killing three of Luke's friends, at the same time, at different locations around town, so there's no way he could ever save them all. And not in a taunting way, in a send-Luke-a-message way. He can't punch his way through that problem. And that's the best kind of story for a hero like Cage; what can you do when your powers aren't helping?

[ravenmoon]

Just started watching this now, it's really good, thoroughly enjoyable - gives us another lens of the marvel uoniverse that's a lot more relatable to than most of the others - i like the style of the netflix shows so far, daredevil, jessica and now Luke Cage. DD and LC are my faves now, with JJ coming in after.

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End of episode 1 - bust up in the asian shop - after Luke Cage has just busted those punks he looks at the fat dude "you want some?" and guy responds "I didn't even like these niggerz" and runs out - classic .. loved it.

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Also it's nice to have the humble settings, like a barber shop, in contrast tot he extraordinary person with special powers. it doesn't get old - that's what i love about the netflix NY based marvel heroes.

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The buy who plays cottonballs in the first few episodes, brings back memories of The 4400 - gosh, he has aged, but I missed that show... damn shame they stopped it, it was the start of the special powers bonanaza shows, shortly after came the likes of Heroes and others - it was preceded by the Buffy/Angel era.

[Shadowferal]

I think when Cage meets Iron Fist for the first time I think both are in for a little humiliation. IF will learn that traditional martial arts against superhuman strength is kinda useless...until he whips out the "fist of iron" which will put Cage on his ass with a "WTF WAS THAT?" look on his face..as he massages his jaw.

[rogueMatthias]

Really not a fan of Bendis Cage at all, but I enjoyed the show nonetheless. Really wasn't wowwed though as I think there were a lot of big issues with the show, so I definately think it's the weaker Marvel series so far.

Strengths -
Misty stole the show imo. I'd much rather look forward to a Daughters of the Dragon series then S2 of Cage.
Cottonelle wasn't a particularly charismatic or scary villain but he seemed a real character, with his own personal struggles which made him interesting in his own right.
Was good to see more of Claire.
The whole first third was pretty great.
Set up of Mariah was good. Until the last episode where she started hamming it up a bit too much and doing the evil voice.

Weaknesses -
Diamondback was AWFUL AWFUL and brought the show down a lot. Netflix series have had some strong complex villains, so using a Ramsay-Bolton level Pantomime villain was a bad idea, and him running round in his own Supersuit was embarassing.
Everything just kinda seems to happen to cage. He's not particular decisive or proactive in anyway so he doesn't drive the momentum in his own show.
The script was cheesy as hell. Awkwardly so at times.
The pacing of the end 2/3 - It just slowed too much and nothing particularly happened. To be honest I started talking online and playing games while watching by about 2/3 into the season as it didn't keep attention.

[Sierra85]

well i finally finished luke cage season 1. Overall was great, but i think they killed cottonmouth way too soon. Great character and Diamondback was nowhere near as good.

[Ratyrel]

Really not a fan of Bendis Cage at all, but I enjoyed the show nonetheless. Really wasn't wowwed though as I think there were a lot of big issues with the show, so I definately think it's the weaker Marvel series so far.

Strengths -
Misty stole the show imo. I'd much rather look forward to a Daughters of the Dragon series then S2 of Cage.
Cottonelle wasn't a particularly charismatic or scary villain but he seemed a real character, with his own personal struggles which made him interesting in his own right.
Was good to see more of Claire.
The whole first third was pretty great.
Set up of Mariah was good. Until the last episode where she started hamming it up a bit too much and doing the evil voice.

Weaknesses -
Diamondback was AWFUL AWFUL and brought the show down a lot. Netflix series have had some strong complex villains, so using a Ramsay-Bolton level Pantomime villain was a bad idea, and him running round in his own Supersuit was embarassing.
Everything just kinda seems to happen to cage. He's not particular decisive or proactive in anyway so he doesn't drive the momentum in his own show.
The script was cheesy as hell. Awkwardly so at times.
The pacing of the end 2/3 - It just slowed too much and nothing particularly happened. To be honest I started talking online and playing games while watching by about 2/3 into the season as it didn't keep attention.

I pretty much second your verdict, though it didn't harm my enjoyment of the show. Replacing awesome and complex cottonmouth with a deranged lunatic in a campy Hammer tech suit, whose only depth was the connection to Carl, really disappointed me and I thoroughly disliked Mariah as well. I enjoyed the Luke - Claire angle a lot though and I feel like I learned a lot about Black culture as well, especially in the first half of the season. I also liked the intensification of ties to the MCU - just wish we could have had a Daredevil cameo after all that name dropping.