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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by patcherke View Post
    If movement and toolkit are what make fire mage so good, I wonder why Frost is so far behind the pack, while it has access to basically the same toolkit and movement (it also has shimmer and Ice floes, and a lot of instant casts)

    Question is: does frost being shit warrant a fire nerf?
    Maybe some tuning in some aspects might be, tbh.

    Imo Frost, and to a lesser extent Arcane, need buffs if they want to be brought in range of the current fire spec.
    For frost this is in anything but pure single target (this was brought into closer range in last balancing pass, butonly in this it is close by atm).
    Start with buffing Blizzard and cleave and give it some more burst.

    (this is speaking from a PvE point of view. I realise this has effects in PvP that need to be handled too)
    We'll see how well frost performs once we can transfer our AF points from weapon to weapon. Barely any serious raider has invested into Ebonchill, so how can we really know how well/badly frost really performs? According to sims, it's not that far behind.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mascarpwn View Post
    We'll see how well frost performs once we can transfer our AF points from weapon to weapon. Barely any serious raider has invested into Ebonchill, so how can we really know how well/badly frost really performs? According to sims, it's not that far behind.
    As someone who invested until trait 19 in ebonchill, I can tell you that after the frost buffs, my ST was reasonably close to the other (fire) mage.
    In every single other aspect, I fell seriously behind.
    I might not be a cutting edge raider, but I am capable of clearing heroic, and doing some mythics.

    I decided to swap over to Fire last week.

    Right now I am still learning, and my gear needs more crit,, but my Artifact level is up to date after 2 weeks of intensive AP grinding. (decided to hold on to the AP for the week after the buffs)
    I got my second golden trait unlocked.

    Even then my single target is on par with what Frost did after the buffs. my AoE and multi target is 40-50k better, and I am still learning and haven't got the best talents so far (decided on an easier rotation to be able to learn step by step)
    That is the state where Frost is in atm.

    I don't care about sims. sims are even making things look better for Frost.
    On the logs frost is still last. and it is not without reason. While numbers might be statistically skewed a bit due to the low number of frost parses, one can clearly see there still are problems.
    If only 2-3% of mage parses are frost, and more than 90% is fire, then Blizzard just failed in their balancing act to start with.

    Say what you want from me, call me a noob or a bad raider, but that does not mean I can't see Frost is in a bad spot.

  3. #63
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    About 98% of mythic raiders play them. They can not nerf them just to push you to another spec. We are not locked into our main specs just for AP, that's the least of the issue, we also get a spec-specific legendaries.

  4. #64
    Frost has a lot of control. It would seem to me that Blizzard tried to make frost the control option and fire the pure dps option. However, fire has so many tools, that the control advantage for frost is minimal.

    I would think the answer would not be to nerf fire, which is fine, but to buff frost so that the control = dps equation is more equal.

  5. #65
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Curnivore View Post
    About 98% of mythic raiders play them. They can not nerf them just to push you to another spec. We are not locked into our main specs just for AP, that's the least of the issue, we also get a spec-specific legendaries.
    it would be counter productive to nerf fire, there would be a much greater chance that they will buff arcane or frost more, just like with the locks buffs, almost every1 could see that it wasnt enough. i would say, give frost and arcane a +10% dmg boost that should be more than enough.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    it would be counter productive to nerf fire, there would be a much greater chance that they will buff arcane or frost more, just like with the locks buffs, almost every1 could see that it wasnt enough. i would say, give frost and arcane a +10% dmg boost that should be more than enough.
    Yes about bringing the rest up instead of nerfing others. And they said that. Also Arcane needs nothing, or at least nothing if Fire gets nothing. Only Frost seems to need improvements.

  7. #67
    Fire is miles ahead of Frost in raids.

    I did 240k on nythendra as frost our fire mage did 360k.

    I got 93rd percentile.

    My frost play isn't perfect but its not a 140k difference. Its miles behind fire.
    Last edited by Ponkster; 2016-10-14 at 01:21 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ponkster View Post
    Fire is miles ahead of Frost in raids.

    I did 240k on nythendra as frost our fire mage did 360k.

    I got 93rd percentile.

    My frost play isn't perfect but its not a 140k difference. Its miles behind fire.

    I'd like to see these logs.

    In case you haven't noticed; every dps class has at least one spec that's complete garbage. Frost was only prevalent early WoD because of bad scaling for other specs and the copious amounts of MS gear found in highmaul.

    You're asking to be on par with fire mages because you're not carrying your weight? Hate to sound like a cliche douche but chances are your guild doesn't care. You obviously enjoy the frost play-style more so if your guild doesn't care, why should you?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiltEV View Post
    I'd like to see these logs.

    In case you haven't noticed; every dps class has at least one spec that's complete garbage. Frost was only prevalent early WoD because of bad scaling for other specs and the copious amounts of MS gear found in highmaul.

    You're asking to be on par with fire mages because you're not carrying your weight? Hate to sound like a cliche douche but chances are your guild doesn't care. You obviously enjoy the frost play-style more so if your guild doesn't care, why should you?
    What ? he just stated some facts

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Marinchen View Post
    What ? he just stated some facts
    Yes stating facts is fun. But he provided nothing to prove them, hence if one is sceptical.. They may ask for proof.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinchen View Post
    What ? he just stated some facts
    Facts aren't 'facts' without proof, mate.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Foleus View Post
    The amount of delusion in this thread is ridiculous. Warriors, Demon hunters and Rogues were all nerfed. Fire Mages are right behind Shadow Priests right on top for every single fight, they do an insane amount of damage and when they get their 4/4 set bonus from Nighthold they will surpass Shadow Priests.

    For anyone here who doesn't think that Fire Mages need and will get a nerf is extremely delusional and obviously plays a Fire Mage. Please consider the amount of classes that have been nerfed and don't think for a second you're not next. You deserve a very large nerf.
    I level tons of class to 110 and currently playing a fire mage. From what I can tell in dungeons at least before heroic/mythic my fire mage dps and overall damage have been at the button even worse than my DK, and furry warrior. In order for fire mage to be good you need a lot of crt. So if fire mage are nerf you can bet they will do even worse in dungeons. Maybe even as bad as warlock before the buff. If any class that needs a nerf is WW monks. Insane damage with great mobility.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by TiltEV View Post
    Facts aren't 'facts' without proof, mate.
    Well you can basically go and compare fire and frost on all bosses and on any difficulty and you will see massive gap in their preformance.

    Frost
    Fire

    also it's not a surprise that there isn't any frost mages past ursoc.
    Last edited by Janir; 2016-10-14 at 11:28 PM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Janir View Post
    Well you can basicly go and compare fire and frost on all bosses and on any difficulty and you will see massive gap in their preformance.

    Frost
    Fire

    also it's not a surprise that there isn't any frost mages past ursoc.
    That surely doesn't play up to the community perception that Frost is worse than it actually is.

  15. #75
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    I hope they buff arcane to be supreme on ST, kinda bored of fire after they nerfed the old combustion to not be spread via inferno blast

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janir View Post
    Well you can basicly go and compare fire and frost on all bosses and on any difficulty and you will see massive gap in their preformance.

    Frost
    Fire

    also it's not a surprise that there isn't any frost mages past ursoc.
    I'm well aware of how bad frost is parsing compared to fire. Frost is strictly a PVP spec imo (and many others agree) it has no place in pve.

    His logs =/= logs that belong to others btw. Usually when people claim they've parsed at a certain threshold it's always a good idea to backup those claims with evidence.

  17. #77
    The company name's a mage spell lol, and sooo many players are rolling a FM right now

  18. #78
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    Why wouldnt they roll fire mage? Blizzard has pretty much stated they will not buff other specs or nerf fire. While I do not main a mage I am tempted to level my 100 up to 110 because fire is the best at everything. This is coming from a jaded outlaw rogue where we got nerfed from top to bottom and Blizz are pretty much stated they will not touch the spec right now.

    I do not want to be the best but being stuck at the bottom is not fun.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Ponkster View Post
    Fire is miles ahead of Frost in raids.

    I did 240k on nythendra as frost our fire mage did 360k.

    I got 93rd percentile.

    My frost play isn't perfect but its not a 140k difference. Its miles behind fire.
    The problem is until you can rank 93 percentile as fire too you can't prove how good your frost game play is due to how few people log as frost.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenfoldor View Post
    Frost has a lot of control. It would seem to me that Blizzard tried to make frost the control option and fire the pure dps option. However, fire has so many tools, that the control advantage for frost is minimal.

    I would think the answer would not be to nerf fire, which is fine, but to buff frost so that the control = dps equation is more equal.
    Sofar though the most dominating slowwing options have been the slowtrap and hunter kiting ability.On both aspects frost is weaker.
    It does have a strong CoC slow but is more dangerous.
    Arcane slow is much more consistant in slowing and would make better at kiting, the only thing is that it's harder to manage arcane and comes at a bigger dps loss i would guess.

    If i'd had to describe frosts utility it's a support slower. Making kiting or running easier for the rest of the raid. Only real encounter that comes to mind if Throne of Thunder Turtle boss where current frostspec utility would be strong.

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