The RNG Brickwall

[Lilija]

Still doesn't make it mandatory.
Were warglaives/thori'dal/tf mandatory? No. They were hella nice, yes. Mandatory? No.
You can say valanyr was mandatory, but that was very easily attained. so was every legendary after it.

Ok, let's agree it's about figure of speech. So yeah, they are not mandatory but give quite a lot of advantage over people who don't have them. And imagine that people who do Mythics are quite competitive in nature. As someone before said, it's a mentality problem and that is true. This is hardcore raider mentality. Hardcore raiders didn't ask for this RNG shitfest. Hardcore raiders are all about efficienty; effort -> reward. Why couldn't they keep legendaries as not high end items? Something for less competitive crowd to be happy about? Raiders don't need legendaries to feel cool. Killing bosses makes raiders feel cool. And for hardcore raiders legendaries are nothing more than tools to kill bosses faster. Those things should not be rng. Tools to kill the boss should come from working for them.

[thatmikeguy]

I don't see the problem, really.

What do you gain from removing the RNG-aspects?

Well, hope.

[kary]

Ok, let's agree it's about figure of speech. So yeah, they are not mandatory but give quite a lot of advantage over people who don't have them. And imagine that people who do Mythics are quite competitive in nature. As someone before said, it's a mentality problem and that is true. This is hardcore raider mentality. Hardcore raiders didn't ask for this RNG shitfest. Hardcore raiders are all about efficienty; effort -> reward. Why couldn't they keep legendaries as not high end items? Something for less competitive crowd to be happy about? Raiders don't need legendaries to feel cool. Killing bosses makes raiders feel cool. And for hardcore raiders legendaries are nothing more than tools to kill bosses faster. Those things should not be rng. Tools to kill the boss should come from working for them.

Hardcore raiders that don't have legendaries still have their raid spots.
It's only the casualcore mid tier raiders that boot people for not having legendaries, something they cannot control.
Legendaries are fine, l2p.

[ro9ue]

LEGENDARIES ARE NOT MANDATORY.

If you think they are, your mentality is the problem and is what causes you to never be happy with what you have in the game or enjoy neat moments where you're surprised with a sweet loot drop.

The distribution of the best items in the game is through essentially a lottery, a slot machine. If you think that's a sound system for the best loot in the game, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Lilija]

Hardcore raiders that don't have legendaries still have their raid spots.
It's only the casualcore mid tier raiders that boot people for not having legendaries, something they cannot control.
Legendaries are fine, l2p.

Do you even want to be part of any discussion or just randomly tell people that they are wrong without any arguments?

[Skarzog]

Hardcore raiders that don't have legendaries still have their raid spots.
It's only the casualcore mid tier raiders that boot people for not having legendaries, something they cannot control.
Legendaries are fine, l2p.

It does not matter what is or is not mandatory for progression, that isn't even the issue.

The problem is being completely outperformed by other players for no good reason other than luck. Its about creating significant power gradients among players of the same class/spec essentially dividing them up into subsets of their class based on who has what legendary.

If you don't look at damage meters or don't look and compare yourself to other players via logs; then fine it does not matter to you. However, considering damage meters are some of the most downloaded mods on curse, it clearly matters to alot of people. It is pointless to argue that people should not concern themselves with the performance of other players, because that isn't reality, it never will be. Designing you game around that ideology will ultimately just foster a whole bunch of frustration.

[kary]

It does not matter what is or is not mandatory for progression, that isn't even the issue.

The problem is being completely outperformed by other players for no good reason other than luck. Its about creating significant power gradients among players of the same class/spec essentially dividing them up into subsets of their class based on who has what legendary.

If you don't look at damage meters or don't look and compare yourself to other players via logs; then fine it does not matter to you. However, considering damage meters are some of the most downloaded mods on curse, it clearly matters to alot of people. It is pointless to argue that people should not concern themselves with the performance of other players, because that isn't reality, it never will be. Designing you game around that ideology will ultimately just foster a whole bunch of frustration.

See: warglaives

[Skarzog]

See: warglaives

Oh man you got me. Oh wait... didn't they stop handing out legendaries at random at a certain point for the exact reason I just mentioned? Yea, I think they did; because it sucked. Eventually they switched to handing out legendaries on a slightly variable time schedule limited to one per raid per amount of time, give or take a few weeks. Even that sucked to the point they got rid of it completely.

Now all of a sudden we reintroduce that system, except applied to every player in the game at once, with even more items that vary between worthless and bis for the rest of the expansion fostering an even more random reward structure than previous legendaries; what could be bad about that?

[davesurfer]

...and then we'll all feel "lucky" for a moment.

Until you see it is the worst legendary. Then you realize your bad luck protection clock reset, and cry....

[Enitzu]

LEGENDARIES ARE NOT MANDATORY.

If you think they are, your mentality is the problem and is what causes you to never be happy with what you have in the game or enjoy neat moments where you're surprised with a sweet loot drop.

If this is what you really think then you are merely a casual raider. 1 rogue legendary adds 40k DPS. 40 freaking K from 1 RNG drop. So yes it does make a big difference. Add that to the fact that most people can now equip 2 when a lot still have not gotten 1.

[kary]

Oh man you got me. Oh wait... didn't they stop handing out legendaries at random at a certain point for the exact reason I just mentioned? Yea, I think they did; because it sucked. Eventually they switched to handing out legendaries on a slightly variable time schedule limited to one per raid per amount of time, give or take a few weeks. Even that sucked to the point they got rid of it completely.

Now all of a sudden we reintroduce that system, except applied to every player in the game at once, with even more items that vary between worthless and bis for the rest of the expansion fostering an even more random reward structure than previous legendaries; what could be bad about that?

Nothing. Because they aren't mandatory. Content isn't tuned around you having them. The issue you're thinking about is player created. So players who create the issue will suffer (you) players that don't create the issue don't care/don't suffer (me)

[Pooti]

Just because you don't like something, does not make it wrong. I did not like the MoP / WoD method of "legendary for everybody". Does that make it wrong?

[CaptainV]

Some guaranteed goals.

I personally liked farming currency in order to purchase some items.

God this so much.

[Cwimge]

This is why I simply ignore all the "affix-forged" bullshit. I will build my bis as I in the times of old, by adhering to the list and aiming only for the items themselves, and like mythic raiding the notion of running content over and over just for a slightly better version of an item I already own will not be enough to keep me.

[goblingirl]

This is why I simply ignore all the "affix-forged" bullshit. I will build my bis as I in the times of old, by adhering to the list and aiming only for the items themselves, and like mythic raiding the notion of running content over and over just for a slightly better version of an item I already own will not be enough to keep me.

This. My own tendency since they started all this war-titan-forged nonsense has been to just... completely ignore it. For example, I ventured into a tier because I wanted to collect my class set or perhaps a particular weapon or something. I collected the set and then I'm pretty much done. I have zero interest in running the content over and over again for a 5 ilvl increase on a trinket that's going to be obsolete in a few months anyway. Whatevs. In the long run all I pretty much care about is collecting the pieces for their artwork, which is the only "lasting" feature they have; the stat itemization is irrelevant to me beyond the immediate few weeks to finish clearing the tier.

[Stormwolf64]

The stupidity of man. Here is how it is 90% of the case: man who had gotten a titanforged 950 ilvl when the regular item was 860 loves it! he truly thinks it's wonderful design, then the next man who almost doesn't get it upgraded at all, and when he finally does it's indestructible or something, he hates it. RNG on top of RNG is bad design, but it's designed so to keep you going.

[Deleted]

Just because you don't like something, does not make it wrong. I did not like the MoP / WoD method of "legendary for everybody". Does that make it wrong?

At least it was fair. There was a clear goal players could reach if they put enough effort in it. There was a quest line with some interesting stuff.

Today we have random drops from random dungeons, raids, could be obtained from a bag. In all previous expansions, including ones where legendaries were random drops, legendaries dropped from specific raid bosses that made at least some sense. Now its totally random. No quest lines, no clear path to getting legendary. Pure RNG. Players have 0 control over it. Its worst form of legendary drop ever designed.

And laziest way to do it for developers. 0 development effort was put in it.

[Mewncriket]

You keep asking if I get it now and at no point did I not "get it" but you're clearly failing at understanding my explanation for WHY it is just pure RNG for these legendaries and these rank 3 skills (herbing/recipes/etc)

If you made it a blend of RNG + fixed limit so that at 1000 herb nodes collected you were guaranteed rank 3 in that herb then you're right back to where you were previously. People would either get lucky and get that rank 3 early on, max out, be bored and unsub or they will mindlessly grind the 1000 herb nodes as fast as possible, get the rank 3 guaranteed and then unsub complaining of boredom.

The real core of the problem is consumption is far too high. Blizzard could have spent 9 months working on Suramar and people will chew through it in a matter of days. The RNG will keep you coming back. Its a little slot machine for your brain. The problem isn't RNG its that there are no other real mini rewards along the way at least for the skills and in most cases the legendaries.

Nothing feels more defeating than doing those 4 world quests, popping open that bag and getting 810 shoulders for the 19th time in a row when my item level is 860. If that bag at least gave something of use it would sustain the grind and feel a bit less poopy. The same goes for skill ups in things like herbalism. Farm and farm and farm and sure you got some herbs at the end of the day but you didn't really get what you wanted and the herb loot itself isn't rewarding enough to provide the same satisfaction.

Ultimately this is a problem Blizzard made for themselves by giving everyone a guaranteed cloak legendary then a guaranteed ring legendary. It became expected that one would get handed to you. Now that it requires effort AND luck (read this carefully, I didn't just say effort, i said effort AND luck) people are salty as fuck.

If all it took to succeed was effort we'd have billionaires everywhere in this world. Plenty of incredibly hard working people who put in tremendous amounts of effort into whatever it is they do and never get ahead or never get the cookie they are after. That's called life. Like I said - if this isn't palatable for you then it might behoove you to find a game or hobby that is a bit more static with its rewards.

You couldn't be more wrong. These "little slot machines" do not keep players coming back. RNG for legendaries serves only to undermine an essential part of any mmo, setting and achieving goals. You simply cannot set a goal for yourself to obtain the most powerful items that some others already have. No matter what you do there is no way to ensure that you are able to compete with others at the highest level.

There is absolutely no way to work towards any legendary. With 8 available legendaries and only 1-3 that are actually desirable for each class/spec you end up working against RNG twice. Not only do you have to get incredibly lucky to simply see a legendary drop (<1%) you have to again get moderately lucky to get a legendary you're after. That's not a system that feels good. RNG has its place, the most powerful items in the game should not be that place.

[Supercool]

At least it was fair. There was a clear goal players could reach if they put enough effort in it. There was a quest line with some interesting stuff.

Said it before but I personally loved the Wrath-Cata system, and will always treasure my memories of Shadowmourne, but I understand completely why Blizz did away with this system, as the amount of poaching that went on especially with early xpac legendaries like Dragonwrath just ruined the experience for so many guilds who would make a huge group effort to get one player an item that they would then run off with to a better guild. I absolutely did not enjoy the MoP/WoD legendary for all system, but I understood the reasoning behind it. It wasn't fun or memorable, but it made sense.

The Legion system is the worst of all worlds. It's not fun, it's not engaging, and it makes no goddamn sense at all.

[Skulltaker]

At least it was fair. There was a clear goal players could reach if they put enough effort in it. There was a quest line with some interesting stuff.

Today we have random drops from random dungeons, raids, could be obtained from a bag. In all previous expansions, including ones where legendaries were random drops, legendaries dropped from specific raid bosses that made at least some sense. Now its totally random. No quest lines, no clear path to getting legendary. Pure RNG. Players have 0 control over it. Its worst form of legendary drop ever designed.

And laziest way to do it for developers. 0 development effort was put in it.

Fair is a point of view. It was unfair for people who are unable to put lots of time and effort into the game, especially time. Provided the chances are the same for everybody, RNG is way fairer. Considering that, if you put more time into it, you get more chances to acquire a legendary, RNG is far superior.

Also, you are assuming that chances are the same everywhere, which we don't know.