Archimonde vs Lei Shen

[MikeBogina]

What the fuck will Arthas do to Archimonde lmao.

Archimonde destroyed the most powerful (magic-wise) city in the world with a sand castle. This wasn't Goldshire or Lordaeron City, this was Dalaran, with so many wards up the wazoo.

Arthas as a DK already sacked the city, killed the most powerful mages and destroyed the wards...

Archimonde is -HUGE-, he has more magic prowess than Azshara ( and that's quite a bit ) and in my opinion he's stronger than Kil'jaeden ( who basically created the LK/Arthas ), because Archimonde was the muscle while Kil'jaeden was the brain.

How powerful is Azshara exactly? Do you know of anything she's done that can be measured? Probably not, just some claims from a book that is full of none canonical assumptions.
I do agree he's more powerful than KJ, something ive argued on here for years, but what has KJ done that can be measured aswell??

Then there's also the fact that Frostmourne and Ner'zhul got their power from Kil'jaeden and there's no way in hell a minion can beat the master, that's like Sylvanas beating the Lich King 1v1, just not happening. Ner'zhul had but a glimmer of KJ's power.

You don't know how the artifact works then. KJ didn't impart any power onto the Helm, he turned the most powerful mortal shaman into a necromantic item, that in turn grew in power with every soul that joined the Scourge.
And to just outright destroy this whole argument, blizzard went ahead and made Ulthalesh and said

There are few things in creation that Sargeras fears. The Deadwind Harvester, Ulthalesh, is one of them. The necrolyte Sataiel regrets that she did not attempt to slay the fallen titan with it when she had the chance, so she will test whoever dares to wield the weapon in her stead. Ulthalesh does not mind. The scythe's master will either overcome Sataiel or be consumed, which will only make the blade more powerful. And then another bearer will take their place. And another.

When Archimonde is hundreds of meters tall what will 1000 skeletons that can't even reach his toes ( well, he has hooves, but still ) do?

That's not to mention Archimonde himself is one of the strongest warlocks in lore, being able to summon endless waves of demons. Arthas can't raise demons and the demon count is basically infinite.

His size means nothing, the Lich King has created larger constructs and raised larger creatures. Archimonde also can't summon endless waves of demons. Raising demons is still up to debate, but it doesn't matter cause Archimonde needs to get those demons to him to make any use of, where Arthas and LeiShen can make an army on any world they go to.

Final note, Archimonde is living. Not only do the living tire, which the dead do not, they are very susceptible to plagues.

[Wildmoon]

Archimonde can summon endless wave of demon...

[alt-ithist]

Archimond has countless worlds full of demons he can summon. Army vs army the legion has more groups then all the factions of Azeroth combined. I'll try to find where I read this but I could've sworn it was mentioned that archimond is capable of destroying a world with a single spell.

- - - Updated - - -

Also for those who keep mentioning the one shot mechanic of the Lich king. Sorry to point out but several raid boss had those, it's simply that every other single time we were rescued before it happened. Tyrion was just too late to play his role. Off the the top of my head: Malygos but we were rescued by drakes, Kil'Jaeden but protected by that dragon, Sindragosa would've killed us if not for the dragon that sacrificed himself, and we did absolutely no damage to deathwing other then his toenails and scratching his back, it was all thrall/dragonsoul and aspects.

[SoundOfGuns]

Archimonde can summon endless wave of demon...

Archimond has countless worlds full of demons he can summon. Army vs army the legion has more groups then all the factions of Azeroth combined. I'll try to find where I read this but I could've sworn it was mentioned that archimond is capable of destroying a world with a single spell.

Noo, Archimonde can't. Archimonde can force some poor Mage or Warlock to build a portal for him. He still has to summon demons or requires other means to bring them to him and its still not "I snap my fingers and TADAAA.". Lei Shen, despite im actually being in Archimondes side here, however can forge Mogu out of basically shits and giggles with the devices on his disposal.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Final note, Archimonde is living. Not only do the living tire, which the dead do not, they are very susceptible to plagues.

'

you're making it out to sound like Archimonde is a simple mortal. I don't think demons tire in the same way a human would, or be susceptible to the plague of undeath, especially when Kil'jaden made it specifically for humans.

[Qualia]

It is very funny that people remember what Xuen fought Lei Shen 30 days, Malorne and Archimonde just a few minutes, but they forget that after winning Lei Shen simply continued seizure of Pandaria, and Archimonde was so wounded that he could not match even Malfurion, who was only an apprentice Druid.

You aren't correct, if not outright wrong. There is no statement or indication that either Archimonde or Lei Shen took more damage than the other after their battles. In fact, there isn't any indication that Archimonde took any significant damage, for that matter. I'm not sure where you got the "Archimonde was so wounded that he could not match even Malfurion, who was only an apprentice Druid" bit from. Malfurion and Archimonde's clash didn't really say much. They didn't even come to trade blow - Malfurion just casted a massive root on Archimonde, and Archimonde teleported away when he realized he couldn't break the roots. Then both of them went their own ways - Archimonde went to toy with the Azeroth army's commander (Jarod) while Malfurion went off towards the Well.

Additionally, you seem to be downplaying Malfurion. Remember that we are talking about one of the original Mary Sue of WoW here. That "only an apprentice Druid", in the same triology, single-handedly defeated Xavius (who had full access to the Well the first time, and was empowered by Sargeras the second encounter), destroyed the barrier that banned access to the Well, survived Sargeras' spell after getting caught by it, created a massive storm that almost drown both his allies and enemies, perfected the spell that banished the Legion. There might be other feats that I'm missing, but all of those showed you that the "only an apprentice Druid" is deceptive - he was already one of the most powerful mortals back then. If anything, the brief clash between Archimonde and Malfurion didn't say anything about Archimonde's status, and more of Malfurion's OP-ness.

Archimonde also can't summon endless waves of demons. Raising demons is still up to debate, but it doesn't matter cause Archimonde needs to get those demons to him to make any use of, where Arthas and LeiShen can make an army on any world they go to.

Final note, Archimonde is living. Not only do the living tire, which the dead do not, they are very susceptible to plagues.

Noo, Archimonde can't. Archimonde can force some poor Mage or Warlock to build a portal for him. He still has to summon demons or requires other means to bring them to him and its still not "I snap my fingers and TADAAA.".

Actually, if all three are drop on a random world, Archimonde would be the one who has advantage in summoning followers. He just open portals (which he has done in both lore and in-game). Unless you approach him to close the portals, demons from the Legion would keep pouring out from there. It's Arthas and Lei Shen who would have trouble making an army on any world they go to. Neither of the two could create Undead / Mogu out of thin-air, Arthas'd need corpses and Lei Shen need the Engine of Nalak'sha and the Forge. Unless we allow Arthas to bring a massive amount of corpses with him, and Lei Shen a huge Titan facility, they are kind of out of luck.

Also, while the demons are susceptible to plagues, so did the Undead. Arthas took damage from and had to retreat from the Forsaken's Blight, for example. Meanwhile, we saw some demon(s) (i.e: the Wyrmtongue) harvesting and drinking that same Blight in Legion. So, the question is, while demons are susceptible to Blight, does Lich King actually have a strong enough strain to cause any significant damage on KJ and his army? The fact that living tire might not matter much if those living can decimate the UD before they get tired.

[Queen of Hamsters]

... They should make a long cinematic with them fighting. Just for the awesome!

[Wildmoon]

Noo, Archimonde can't. Archimonde can force some poor Mage or Warlock to build a portal for him. He still has to summon demons or requires other means to bring them to him and its still not "I snap my fingers and TADAAA.". Lei Shen, despite im actually being in Archimondes side here, however can forge Mogu out of basically shits and giggles with the devices on his disposal.

Wut? How is using device different from using portal? Archimonde is a master summoner. If Lei Shen and Archimonde land on a ramdom planet, you can bet that Archimonde will quickly summon reinforcement much faster.

[Deleted]

It kinda would be fun to see two bad guys fighting against each other while "we" as the population of azeroth is between this fight.

Like in some hollywood movies, where you have 2 different alien species fighting against each other and the earth is dragged into this fight - just because the earth happend to be where it is.

I would be really fun, to see N'zoth battleing vs Avatar Sargeras (just two random names picked by me) and every living being in azeroth has to decide (for himself) where they want to stand inside this fight.

They could help N'zoth to defeat Sargeras or the other way round. You would have to pick a "faction", which you want to support and at the end of the xpack, you would see which side would be winning and the next xpack would be somewhere driven by the winner of this big battle. You basically have to engage a pact with one evil to beat the other one and afterwards, there is still one evil left.

i think this type of story would be interesting. seems like a better choice than "everyone unite and fight against x" ok done "everyone now unite and fight against y" ok done "now everyone unite and fight against z" ok done.

[SoundOfGuns]

Actually, if all three are drop on a random world, Archimonde would be the one who has advantage in summoning followers. He just open portals (which he has done in both lore and in-game). Unless you approach him to close the portals, demons from the Legion would keep pouring out from there. It's Arthas and Lei Shen who would have trouble making an army on any world they go to. Neither of the two could create Undead / Mogu out of thin-air, Arthas'd need corpses and Lei Shen need the Engine of Nalak'sha and the Forge. Unless we allow Arthas to bring a massive amount of corpses with him, and Lei Shen a huge Titan facility, they are kind of out of luck.

This is true, if left unchecked. It depends how you start the fight off though. Basically, having both of them drop into a random Arena i doubt either of them would get the benefit of summoning anything. If the fight was happening on Azeroth, Lei Shen would gain the upper hand when it comes to spawning reinforcements. It does not seem to need much, but then again you can argue that the general combat mechanic does not dictate lore. If you do that tho you also need to consider that with Archimonde. I will admit tho im not sure if or if not Archimonde was ever able to summon demons without any form of preperation suddenly and out of the blue in huge numbers when he was mentioned outside of the games itself. You sort of got to keep in mind in any case that usually - once Archimonde arrived - it already opened the floodgates. Its likely much less an ability by him, than something he simply knows how to use once its established. Which then again means he would not the chance to create a portal which i doubt he would get, coming down to fisty-cuffs with Lei Shen, but there i sort of see Archimonde win out.

Wut? How is using device different from using portal? Archimonde is a master summoner. If Lei Shen and Archimonde land on a ramdom planet, you can bet that Archimonde will quickly summon reinforcement much faster.

If he gets to it... The way you put it tho, you make it sound like he farts demons just because "LoL". And thats not what he does or can do regardless of anything else. If he were and could just open up endless gateways without any effort whatsoever even when actively fighting, he would have overrun Azeroth and Dreanor both in mere nano-seconds and yet he is defeated in both timelines and every display ever, making me assume that he really can't just blink the entire Legion to him. Archimonde is not particularly proud nor is he stupid enough to "just not" summon everything he can for his ego.

[Benomatic]

As much as it pains me. Archimonde has this. In WoW he has been treated like a weak being. WC3 is a shame that it's bypassed. Lei Shen was beaten twice stupidly.. Archimonde is Chipolte terror

[pateuvasiliu]

Arthas as a DK already sacked the city, killed the most powerful mages and destroyed the wards...


How powerful is Azshara exactly? Do you know of anything she's done that can be measured? Probably not, just some claims from a book that is full of none canonical assumptions.
I do agree he's more powerful than KJ, something ive argued on here for years, but what has KJ done that can be measured aswell??

You don't know how the artifact works then. KJ didn't impart any power onto the Helm, he turned the most powerful mortal shaman into a necromantic item, that in turn grew in power with every soul that joined the Scourge.
And to just outright destroy this whole argument, blizzard went ahead and made Ulthalesh and said




His size means nothing, the Lich King has created larger constructs and raised larger creatures. Archimonde also can't summon endless waves of demons. Raising demons is still up to debate, but it doesn't matter cause Archimonde needs to get those demons to him to make any use of, where Arthas and LeiShen can make an army on any world they go to.

Final note, Archimonde is living. Not only do the living tire, which the dead do not, they are very susceptible to plagues.

Archimonde can in fact summon endless demons, he's a Warlock on a titanic scale.

And he's not 'living', he's a goddamn demon. Arthas literally can't even kill him, Archimonde would have to die in the Twisting Nether.

What will Arthas do, stub him in the toe? Archimonde's hundreds times bigger he can literally squash him like a bug.

Kil'jaeden gave him the Helm of Domination and made him immortal so I'm pretty sure Ner'zhul can be classified as a minion of Kil'jaeden.

They're on completely different scales. In WOTLK when Arthas killed us, we were just random adventurers. In WoD we're pretty much commanders of our faction and in Legion we're basically the strongest in our class, contending with the likes of Thrall, Tirion, Khadgar etc when it comes to power.

[Wildmoon]

If he gets to it... The way you put it tho, you make it sound like he farts demons just because "LoL". And thats not what he does or can do regardless of anything else. If he were and could just open up endless gateways without any effort whatsoever even when actively fighting, he would have overrun Azeroth and Dreanor both in mere nano-seconds and yet he is defeated in both timelines and every display ever, making me assume that he really can't just blink the entire Legion to him. Archimonde is not particularly proud nor is he stupid enough to "just not" summon everything he can for his ego.

Except that's not the point. No one can just summon shit with a snap of their fingers in the first place. Archimonde can summon endless demon under the right conditions. The same goes for Lei Shen. The argument that Lei Shen could win against Archimonde in bringing more reinforcement is silly.

[pateuvasiliu]

The legion has been described as being endless. Millions of demons. Not shambling skeletons and ghouls, demons. The majority much stronger than a human.

Arthas had what, a few hundred thousand? Assuming he raised all of Lordaeron, how many people could that kingdom have? ( And that's ignoring most of the undead in Lordaeron didn't go to Northrend anyway ).

[Zandalarian Paladin]

In a theoretical one versus one, I'd say that in all possibilities, Lei'Shen would probably come on top.

No curse of flesh. Tremendous power.

But what tip the scale is, in fact, personalities. Archimonde is brash, brutal, short-tempered. Lei'shen is disciplined, serious, dedicated. Both are intelligent, yes, but in a one versus one, I'm thinking Archimonde will probably lose his temper and commit a mistake. Not Lei'Shen.

This would also mean that Lei'Shen is invulnerable to the promises of the Legion. So no corruption.

[pateuvasiliu]

I don't know about Lei Shen, but he can't kill Archimonde. He'd just come back.

I also personally doubt a Titanic Watcher ( this is what Lei Shen got his powers from, right? ) can take on Archimonde.

I'd put Archimonde on the same level as an Old God.


Sargeras ~ Void Lords ~ Titans

Archimonde ~ Kil'jaeden ~ Ancients like Elune, Malorne, Ursoc, Ursol etc. ~ Yogg-Saron, C'thun and so on.

That's how I'd classify their power.

[Deleted]

At the end of the day, Godfrey killed Sylvanas with a point-blank head shot.

[Deleted]

Chronicles Page 95

"Not since the Black Empire in ages past had a territory grown so vast in size and scope. The immense influence Azshara held over the world and its denizens eclipsed even Lei´shens wildest Dreams of Power"

So, 1+ 1 is 2, The result of this could be

Lei´shen < Queen Azshara

Queen Azshara (maybe, im not Sure) < Archimonde.

And Dalaran isn´t the most powerfull City of Magic in the complet World. Silvermoon, Suramar, Dalaran, all this Place are incredible Powerfull in Magic.

[Qualia]

Chronicles Page 95

"Not since the Black Empire in ages past had a territory grown so vast in size and scope. The immense influence Azshara held over the world and its denizens eclipsed even Lei´shens wildest Dreams of Power"

So, 1+ 1 is 2, The result of this could be

Lei´shen < Queen Azshara

That's not "1+1=2". The size of one's kingdom and his / her influence doesn't always reflect and scale with his / her personal power. Just because Azshara (or the NE)'s kingdom was greater than the Mogu ever was doesn't automatically mean Azshara > Lei Shen, power-wise. The reason why the Mogu's empire wasn't larger was Lei Shen getting hit in the face by a device that were created to destroy the world. Azshara never got to face adversaries of that level.

[Deleted]

The immense influence Azshara held over the world and its denizens eclipsed even Lei´shens wildest Dreams of Power"

This part says nothing about the Ancient empire, this part says one Person, Azsahra Herself.

And Azshara has enough Power , lorewise , for very very Powerfull Demons under Sargeras. In Knaaks Book, his "meeting" with Mannoroth, you´re Remember

I mean, Azshara has one Land destroid, with one Spell. lei´shen have? The Power of Zandalari and Lei´shen was balanced, Azshara has humiliated the Zandalari and the Troll-Race.

because of that: i mean Lei´shen< Archimonde.