[RESTO] 7.1 Nerfs?

[Deleted]

"Why don't they do 2 things instead of 1"

Do you hear yourself?

The answer to your "question" is already there: if Resto shamans are average, nerfing the best talent will just make the spec perform worse overall. He's saying Blizz should avoid making specs weaker if they're already average. Maybe that requires more work on Blizz' end, but if you think that's a valid reason not to do it, then all I'll say is "I'm grateful you're not the developer of this game".

That being said, I don't necessarily agree that Torrent was the clear winner. I can't really comment on raiding since I've basically given up on that for now (in favor of Mythic+), but for Mythic+ I still haven't decided on which is better: Undulation or Torrent. Our tank is a DK and drops dangerously low quite often, so my main priority is getting her to a safe margin ASAP. Torrent seems like the obvious choice at first glance, but I personally find a critting HS (thanks to Tidal Waves) usually gives her more breathing room. Other tanks are probably a different story, but I personally prefer Undulation due to DK tanks dipping low so often.

[Agnu]

Man it is hilarious that they nerfed the worst talent in its bracket and everyone is up in arms over it for the wrong reasons. You guys crack me up

[obesemidget]

Why do people post blatant lies? I just checked out warcraft logs top 200 on every mythic fight. Our representation would suggest we're middle of the pack, not "the best." Maybe you're a better player than your other healers, but that doesn't mean shamans are better just because of your anecdotal evidence. I top healing in my raids also, but I also barely beat the holy paladin who has his best legendary already whom I know I'm better than.

I'm not going to scream "the world is ending" because these nerfs really aren't huge, but I just don't understand why. The logs/rankings don't suggest we need nerfs. I understand them wanting to bring talent choices more in line with each other, but why not buff the other two choices? Just seems like blizzard is blatantly ignoring the data in front of their faces ><

*question about unleash life - does it work with every chain heal bounce or just the initial hit?

Chain heal scales from the initial hit.

[Kargos]

That being said, I don't necessarily agree that Torrent was the clear winner. I can't really comment on raiding since I've basically given up on that for now (in favor of Mythic+), but for Mythic+ I still haven't decided on which is better: Undulation or Torrent. Our tank is a DK and drops dangerously low quite often, so my main priority is getting her to a safe margin ASAP. Torrent seems like the obvious choice at first glance, but I personally find a critting HS (thanks to Tidal Waves) usually gives her more breathing room. Other tanks are probably a different story, but I personally prefer Undulation due to DK tanks dipping low so often.

Undulation is twice as much throughput as torrent. Torrent makes a pretty insignificant boost to RT while undulation makes a pretty sizable boost to HS. Torrent just feels better even though its so much weaker.

Man it is hilarious that they nerfed the worst talent in its bracket and everyone is up in arms over it for the wrong reasons. You guys crack me up

Agreed. However, torrent is good for players who can't use the stronger talents effectively, e.g. those who can't keep track of UL's cooldown or are blind to the big bright activation border HS and HW get when undulation is active.

Amazing how little people read before posting; I answered all of these questions already on the first page: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post42780787

[Deleted]

Undulation is double the healing of torrent in ST fights and UL is a ton more healing for chain healing.

.

How often can you actually do that though? most of the time you are chain healing you really can't afford to waste a global on UL and, having done 5/7 mythic, the only ST fight is dragons, which shams suck at anyways

[Ahovv]

How often can you actually do that though? most of the time you are chain healing you really can't afford to waste a global on UL and, having done 5/7 mythic, the only ST fight is dragons, which shams suck at anyways

1) There is no fight where you're literally always spamming chain heal. Obviously you can find time to cast Unleash Life; otherwise you'd be oom far before the boss died (or more likely, your raid wiping).

2) It's an overall throughput increase which allows you to conserve mana over the course of a fight.

3) UL can be casted ahead of actual raid damage. On Ursoc, for example, you can UL the tank, dps for a few seconds, and then Chain Heal directly following a Roaring Cacophony. The playstyle doesn't necessarily need to be "wait for raid dmg, then cast unleash life." In every case it will be optimal to cast it ahead of time, if possible.

[grizz92]

We are not middle of the pack healers. We are top in Raids. Our AOE healing is unmatched. Can be equal to other healers in mythic+ if you talent right and know the dungeon.

I'm always top in my guild runs in Heroic and mythic EN.

These two nerfs are minor. Who cares.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...hps&dataset=80 sorry bro your other healers are bad

[Deleted]

Yeah, because HPS stats are a clear indicator of healer prowess.... We have almost the exact same amount of parses as Holy Paladins and Resto Druids, that's the only relevant indicator right there.

Resto Shamans are in an excellent place, as we've been for the better part of the last 5 years.

[Valkaneer]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...hps&dataset=80 sorry bro your other healers are bad

Why do people keep posting links like this with every ilvl available?

2nd is if other healer are keeping the raid close to topped off hp, Resto Shamy heals will be lower, It's what pisses me off about the situation. I only go beast mode in a high raid damage situations. PPL say well then that's pretty freaking good, problem is I never look good on the parses then, cuz even though I put out more HPS than another healer in high raid damage situations those times are few, Ursoc is one of the only fights where I can beast mode a lot.

I don't know how people are able to do such high HPS on single target healing cuz in my raid grp we rarely have ppl close to dying all the time, and other healers have quicker heals, unless you have a UL+HS ready to fire your probably not going to get that big heal with your mastery benefit. I'm starting to wonder if Crit is the way to go.

[ItsTiddles]

I'm starting to wonder if Crit is the way to go.

Both of the spreadsheets* that have been floating around the shaman forum have the option to put the "average raid hp%" and it can drastically change the stat prio. For instance if I set the "Average HP%" with my current gear to 60%, my mastery stat weight is 0.904, but if I set the "Average HP%" to 80%, my mastery stat weight is 0.522 (mind you, average means the whole fight, not just where there are bursts like Gorefiend style).

Currently I have a load of mastery, so I don't even try to keep people topped off if they're 80%+ and not taking damage. I just healing rain/HST and dps until someone takes damage or to pre-cast incoming damage. Saves mana when your overhealing is sub 5% a lot of the time.

[Valkaneer]

Both of the google docs that have been floating around the shaman forum have the option to put the "average raid hp%" and it can drastically change the stat prio. For instance if I set the "Average HP%" with my current gear to 60%, my mastery stat weight is 0.904, but if I set the "Average HP%" to 80%, my mastery stat weight is 0.522 (mind you, average means the whole fight, not just where there are bursts like Gorefiend style).

Currently I have a load of mastery, so I don't even try to keep people topped off if they're 80%+ and not taking damage. I just healing rain/HST and dps until someone takes damage or to pre-cast incoming damage. Saves mana when your overhealing is sub 5% a lot of the time.

What google Docs are you looking at? I'm always looking for new sources of information.

- - - Updated - - -

I found a google docs, but it's a spread sheet that seems you need an extra program to open or something.

[ItsTiddles]

What google Docs are you looking at? I'm always looking for new sources of information.

- - - Updated - - -

I found a google docs, but it's a spread sheet that seems you need an extra program to open or something.

Oh sorry, they're excel spreadsheets. My brain just labeled them google docs because they look the same. My apologies.

[grizz92]

Why do people keep posting links like this with every ilvl available?

2nd is if other healer are keeping the raid close to topped off hp, Resto Shamy heals will be lower, It's what pisses me off about the situation. I only go beast mode in a high raid damage situations. PPL say well then that's pretty freaking good, problem is I never look good on the parses then, cuz even though I put out more HPS than another healer in high raid damage situations those times are few, Ursoc is one of the only fights where I can beast mode a lot.

I don't know how people are able to do such high HPS on single target healing cuz in my raid grp we rarely have ppl close to dying all the time, and other healers have quicker heals, unless you have a UL+HS ready to fire your probably not going to get that big heal with your mastery benefit. I'm starting to wonder if Crit is the way to go.

torrent is better then UL or undulation and yes if other healers are doing good then it is harder for rshams to shine but also not every raid all ther healers are doing good but i feel like rshams are still strong because every healer has their job to do and its not about the ilevel in my post that is actual data from people actually doing the raids at 80th percentile which is in the above average tier for mythic raiding

[Ahovv]

torrent is better then UL or undulation and yes if other healers are doing good then it is harder for rshams to shine but also not every raid all ther healers are doing good but i feel like rshams are still strong because every healer has their job to do and its not about the ilevel in my post that is actual data from people actually doing the raids at 80th percentile which is in the above average tier for mythic raiding

If you can insert some punctuation I might take you seriously.

[Valkaneer]

Oh sorry, they're excel spreadsheets. My brain just labeled them google docs because they look the same. My apologies.

Ya strange, once I put excel back on my PC and opened the doc, it says haste is my best stat if they are above 50%. Down around 40% mastery becomes stronger than haste, and at 30% stronger than int. Not sure why they say haste is so strong for me though, is there a haste break point?

[isnortwhey]

all that matters is top end guilds and shamans are dominating so stfu and learn to maximize your class before speaking you pleb

[Valkaneer]

all that matters is top end guilds and shamans are dominating so stfu and learn to maximize your class before speaking you pleb

And who was that directed at?

[Kargos]

How often can you actually do that though? most of the time you are chain healing you really can't afford to waste a global on UL and, having done 5/7 mythic, the only ST fight is dragons, which shams suck at anyways

Agreed with everything Ahovv replied to you with. It's really not that hard to use UL on cooldown effectively, and if you know the fight, you can use it proactively. If crap's hitting the fan unexpectedly, you obviously shouldn't use UL until the raid's stable. That said, it's going to give more hps and hpm in the long run than torrent, even if things go really sideways a couple of times during a fight.

If you can insert some punctuation I might take you seriously.

But he feels like rshams are strong, and his feelings are more important than math or punctuation!

[Deleted]

That said, it's going to give more hps and hpm in the long run than torrent, even if things go really sideways a couple of times during a fight.

While I don't instantly dismiss your assertion, is there any math anywhere to back this up?

[grizz92]

If you can insert some punctuation I might take you seriously.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...st/#metric=hps fuck you i got logs think i give a damn what you think about punctuation we aint talking bout grammar we talking about a class so stfu