Do you think Scotland will call another independence referendum

[ranzino]

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OT: If we leave Europe then I fully expect another independance referendum.

For the curiousity: after Brexit is final or would Holyrood starts to kick May's ribs as soon May approaches Brussels in next march ?

[AeneasBK]

For the curiousity: after Brexit is final or would Holyrood starts to kick May's ribs as soon May approaches Brussels in next march ?

Oh I wouldn't consider my opinion worth the time; just noticed I can't even spell independence

If Brexit as imagined by the leave campagin occurs I can't imagine it will be long before another referendum date is being asked for that's all. My memories of 2014 had "You'd have to reapply to Europe :O" as a big motive to vote against independence at the time, that is all. So I would say "months to years afterwards"

I'm not convinced leading politicans and businesses aren't trying to find a loophole to prevent us leaving anyway; if that gives an indication as to how "out of touch" I am with politics.

[Tommi]

A nationalist party defending its nations interests good golly gosh, whatever next.

But Scotland has NO POWER to deal with Foreign Affairs, which is exactly what wee krankie Sturgeon is trying to do: http://www.parliament.scot/visitandlearn/12506.aspx

[Rudkobing]

Its possible.

[Zelk]

There's no guarantee Scotland would be accepted

As if the EU would say no to a part of the UK choosing the EU over the Union.

[ranzino]

As if the EU would say no to a part of the UK choosing the EU over the Union.

Of course we would welcome scotland. the sheer idea of an England/NI sitting between EU-Ireland and EU-Scotland is pretty. England/NI may isolate themselves from the continent, but how to achieve to separate from their dear neighbours ? new Hadrian Wall ? rekindle the NI-conflict ? Oh, it will be brilliant to see merry old england fail utterly.

[sarahtasher]

A nationalist party defending its nations interests good golly gosh, whatever next.

The accuusation coming from Brexiters make that delicious.

[Sunseeker]

As if the EU would say no to a part of the UK choosing the EU over the Union.

If the EU sticks to it's legal and economic guidelines, it will be difficult for Scotland. Which it should if it wants to maintain its status as an overblown economic union.

Though frankly they should just say fuck it and accept the nations they want as a shameless territory grab. The rich nations will support the poor nations, just like the rich US states support the poor US states because the goal is one single, federalized nation-state.

[jellmoo]

Well, Quebec has tried twice and the separatist movement still exists, even if it's weakened in the 21 years since the last attempt. Instability will always make people think that grass may be greener on the other side.

[Kallisto]

Its once again another statement to Westminster that they need to take us seriously, the SNP arent calling for an indy ref tomorrow, its dependant on how Brexit goes. Its very easy to see the injustice from our point of view if you consider the promises, actions and response from the previous indy ref and whats happened up till this point. Theres so many vibrant and progressive directions Scotland can take, and they can all include the UK if Westminster would realise that anemic English politics dont work for everyone.

It's not just you that needs to be taken seriously. But at the same time Scotland needs to realise it's population is pretty much small. Yourselves, Wales and Northern Ireland barely equal London in population size yet hold a higher representation.

Now don't get me wrong I feel all regions of England should have a similar level of self representation as Scotland does (as well as Northern Ireland and Wales.). As you said "they can all include the UK if Westminster would realise that anemic English politics dont work for everyone." and that's even true within England. London is different from the rest of the south east, which is different from the south west, which is different from the different parts of the midlands etc.

As for a second vote. I think there needs to be one depending on how "Shoot self in foot." saga ends up. One of the main talking points for Scottish remain in the UK was "IF you wish to remain in the EU, vote no to independence." well that is now completely out the window and many that voted to stay in the UK for that reason are likely fuming because of it. Essentially they had both the thought of an independent scotland and remain in the EU ripped from them.

[tehealadin]

There will be one, I have no doubt. As long as the SNP are in power, there will always be one until they get what they want. This is why they got into politics, it has always been their end game. Ordinarily, to call for a second one so soon wouldn't make them look good, but given the circumstances, they feel emboldened- this is a material change in circumstances, one that drives right to the heart of the problem (or at least, part of it)- Scotland is being taken out of the EU against its will.

Do we accept that on matters of such importance, the decision must be left to the English, as the price for being in the UK? It is an important question to ask. With all of the uncertainty in the EU, in France, Germany, some eastern European states, it also has to be asked- is the EU a sinking ship? People will give arguments for yes and no, on both questions, and the worrying thing is the uncertainty. I really am not looking forward to another indyref. The vitriol that came out on the last one was disgusting.

[Shadowmelded]

I really am not looking forward to another indyref. The vitriol that came out on the last one was disgusting.

Yeah and to be honest we've been in campaign mode since basically 2012 anyway, even though the official campaign didn't start until later. Plus the 2015 General Election then the 2016 Holyrood election (and also following the US election) and the upcoming 2017 Local council elections, I'm kind of exhausted from the constant rhetoric and general politicking. I didn't think there would be another one until like 2021 but Brexit has sped things up.

[Kuntantee]

How's their economy? EU might not be willing to accept another poor economy into the system, if the entire point of Scotland's future independence referendum is to get into EU.

[ranzino]

How's their economy? EU might not be willing to accept another poor economy into the system, if the entire point of Scotland's future independence referendum is to get into EU.

Most of the entry formalities are known and agreed already, they were part of EU before. Fair guess they will take them in.

[Shadowmelded]

How's their economy? EU might not be willing to accept another poor economy into the system, if the entire point of Scotland's future independence referendum is to get into EU.

Given that Scotland most likely won't seek to join the Eurozone immediately (and there's no mechanism to enforce joining the Euro) it won't really be an issue.

[Raldazzar]

Honestly, I hope they do. and I hope they do leave. where is the English referendum to decide if we even want the sweats?

It's like they have learnt nothing. if they had got independence at the last ref, they would've been thrown into a huge recession as the oil market died on its arse.

I think if they DO get another referendum, little jimmy crankie should put her job on the line.

I also find it funny. that for a nation which claims to support it's peoples wills.

scots vote to stay... she wants another.
UK votes to leave... she wants another.

Jimmy crankie is nothing more then a devisive entity trying to drive a wedge. get shot of her. and if she takes Scotland with her, so be it. they are running at a huge deficit. and it would literally help the UK's economy if they left

[tehealadin]

How's their economy? EU might not be willing to accept another poor economy into the system, if the entire point of Scotland's future independence referendum is to get into EU.

Not great. It is growing at a rate lower than the rest of the UK, and there is a significant budget deficit. The SNP will claim that breaking ties with Westminster will remedy this, though I remain unconvinced. We have significant social problems that I feel hamper matters, and I don't think the English can be blamed for those- high rates of substance abuse, high rates of unhealthy behaviour (putting strain on the NHS) and a still worryingly high violent crime rate (that to the SNP's credit, has been falling, especially the murder rate, which for a country of our population was way too high) and there is still a lot of inter generational unemployment in certain areas of the country.

None of these things are unique to Scotland, though certain issues are worse here than in comparable nations (in the region that I live, we have a lot of junkies (in Scotland this pretty much means heroin addict) and people called jakes (alcoholics/bums), which may colour my view somewhat), I'd like to see some of this unhealthy baggage dealt with before going it alone, as I personally think that it will hold us back.

[Deleted]

As if the EU would say no to a part of the UK choosing the EU over the Union.

There's lots of reasons why the EU would refuse Scotland as an independent nation... That's why it's extremely risky for Scotland to leave

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Most of the entry formalities are known and agreed already, they were part of EU before. Fair guess they will take them in.

They were only part of the EU before because they were part of the UK so their entry requirements were boosted by England and Wales

[Snorkles]

If they leave the UK and retain EU Membership I'd move there in an instant. So hopefully they manage both.

[ranzino]

There's lots of reasons why the EU would refuse Scotland as an independent nation... That's why it's extremely risky for Scotland to leave

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They were only part of the EU before because they were part of the UK so their entry requirements were boosted by England and Wales

Scotland will have to wait some years of course for their negotiations, nobody said they'll be part of in march 2019 immediately.

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If they leave the UK and retain EU Membership I'd move there in an instant. So hopefully they manage both.

a simple "no" to retain, bur scotland can reapply in an instant as soon as they become independent. And scotland is not turkey, EU wants them in and gladly.