1. #1801
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    It's a nerf to ST, but a buff to two other areas. It could see buffs as well if it's too weak. It's also pretty damn good in pvp as pointed out in the other thread.
    Name a single fight in emerald nightmare or trial of valor where it would be beneficial to have 30 seconds of judgment aoe (hint, there are none). To call that burst aoe is untrue, it pales in comparision to DH, monk, and mage.

    The new crusade is a major nerf all around to RAIDING rets, which is what most people in this thread do.

  2. #1802
    Ilvl 856, 30% crit, 30% haste, 15% mastery. 310k on target dummy, live servers.
    With same character on PTR i can barely make it to 240k dps with new Crusade, but with Avenging wrath + divine purpose my dps around 250-260k.
    Donk know if they even tested this new shitty talent. Whos in the right mind would take such boring, weak talent, especially, if this is a dps loss.
    Im done with ret , if this dogshit talent make it to live.

  3. #1803
    Horn of Valor, Nature's Call, or Vindictive Gladiator's Badge of Victory. Which 2?


    EDIT: Nevermind, simmed it out.
    Last edited by BlackZero; 2016-10-16 at 02:15 PM.

  4. #1804
    Hey Guys fellow Ret Pally here,
    just asking all that may know the current up to date stat weights, for (pawn) as recent i been doing stat weightings and have been playing around with my class stat wise, but i do still want to know the up to date stat weights as on the 17/10/2016.
    can someone please help me out that would be amazing
    current stats are 27crit, 26haste, 22mastery running hungering trink and corrupted egg till i get bis trink.

  5. #1805
    Deleted
    Some people annoyed by the current standing of rets on ST fights . Not only our only cd that managed to make rets excel in something gets nerfed but also we got to keep in mind that the "hotfix" that buffed the output was accompanied by a tier bonus nerf . When Nighthold comes we guaranteed to have an overall bad ST standing.
    We also have to keep in mind that the only thing that made us good in situations like the previous ones is that we could line our damage cd, hero, strong on use trinkets and pots with it. A class that makes half the damage during a cd and has a pot and blessings as major contributors to total damage done is the result of bad design.

  6. #1806
    Jesus, I just read about the new Crusade and my first reaction was: Why? I am downloading the PTR again to test it, but it doesnt look good...

  7. #1807
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Keep in mind Blade of Wrath is being changed to. It will now be a passive but Art of War -_-(Assuming nothing changes)
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

    Warrior-Magi

  8. #1808
    I'm not much for data sim. I leave that to the masters, I interesting in possible spec:

    Greater Judgement and the new 7.1 Crusade with a High Mastery

    Mastery effects Judgement damage...
    Greater Judgement makes Judgements crit above 50%


    with this build:
    Are there trinkets that trigger off crits?

    Thank you.

  9. #1809
    I am Murloc! DrMcNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackZero View Post
    Horn of Valor, Nature's Call, or Vindictive Gladiator's Badge of Victory. Which 2?


    EDIT: Nevermind, simmed it out.
    Attaboy, now keep doing that for the remainder of your WoW career

    - - - Updated - - -

    This one gave me a good laugh. Sums up all my feelings.

    http://i.imgur.com/hvbw2ah.png
    Last edited by DrMcNinja; 2016-10-16 at 07:18 PM.

  10. #1810
    Crusade is getting buffed and all I see are people calling it a nerf.
    I do not understand the casual community.

    Let's examine what the crusade changes do:

    >add more damage to cooldown phase
    Factual increase as it allows our increase to ramp up faster, and we all know being able to replace CS with judgement is a huge dps increase and on top of that it now gives us a holy power for doing so.
    >Range
    Now we can (assuming you have mouseover macros like you should) cleave better during cooldowns (such as on Dragons in EN) by losing zero dps while using judgement during Crusade (but in fact gain dps)

    All I'm seeing is dps gains. Baffling that people complain.

  11. #1811
    Quote Originally Posted by Fullmetalmoo View Post
    Crusade is getting buffed and all I see are people calling it a nerf.
    I do not understand the casual community.

    Let's examine what the crusade changes do:

    >add more damage to cooldown phase
    Factual increase as it allows our increase to ramp up faster, and we all know being able to replace CS with judgement is a huge dps increase and on top of that it now gives us a holy power for doing so.

    >Range
    Now we can (assuming you have mouseover macros like you should) cleave better during cooldowns (such as on Dragons in EN) by losing zero dps while using judgement during Crusade (but in fact gain dps)

    All I'm seeing is dps gains. Baffling that people complain.

    Sim and the data is what counts here. The folks here did the math, it's over a 50k nerf.

  12. #1812
    Quote Originally Posted by Lowangel View Post
    Sim and the data is what counts here. The folks here did the math, it's over a 50k nerf.
    Oh you mean the one guy on the last page who simmed himself? One person who I've never seen sim before? Okay. I'd like some real data from people who know what they're doing with sims. Solsacra, Laurcus, Thete. Anyone that has shown they know what to do.

  13. #1813
    Quote Originally Posted by Lowangel View Post
    Sim and the data is what counts here. The folks here did the math, it's over a 50k nerf.
    In my years of playing ret I've seen people do math countless times only to obliterate expectations when I actually play it myself. Sims matter the least of all because in the end what matter sis how you perform. Your sims don't really know how to account for intuitive playstyles.

    Edit: I assume these """""theorycrafters""""" aren't really taking into account the value of more frequent uptime on crusade as well.
    Completely invaluable to high level raiding, with (I anticipate) a great increase in dps to casual players who don't really know what they're doing.
    Last edited by Fullmetalmoo; 2016-10-16 at 08:00 PM.

  14. #1814
    Quote Originally Posted by Fullmetalmoo View Post
    In my years of playing ret I've seen people do math countless times only to obliterate expectations when I actually play it myself. Sims matter the least of all because in the end what matter sis how you perform. Your sims don't really know how to account for intuitive playstyles.

    I assume these """""theorycrafters""""" aren't really taking into account the value of more frequent uptime on crusade as well.
    Completely invaluable to high level raiding, with (I anticipate) a great increase in dps to casual players who don't really know what they're doing.
    You really think casting judgment twice as often is better than 50% dmg + haste?

    Instead of spouting nonsense why don't you download the PTR and try it out for yourself since you dislike sims so much. I did, both on a target dummy and in trials of valor raid testing and it is a massive nerf to the point where you just take DP instead.

    What more frequent uptime are you talking about, it's still 30 second duration, 2 min cd, or are you implying you ever get out of range on a raid boss and it's giving you more boss uptime.
    Last edited by Torchbringer; 2016-10-16 at 08:04 PM.

  15. #1815
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    Oh you mean the one guy on the last page who simmed himself? One person who I've never seen sim before? Okay. I'd like some real data from people who know what they're doing with sims. Solsacra, Laurcus, Thete. Anyone that has shown they know what to do.
    https://twitter.com/Solsacra/status/786795752743768065

    Before you start, dps neutral means that you do the same damage whether you took the talent or have no talent at all. Baseline wings is better than new crusade, it's that bad.

  16. #1816
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbringer View Post
    You really think casting judgment twice as often is better than 50% dmg + haste?

    Instead of spouting nonsense why don't you download the PTR and try it out for yourself since you dislike sims so much. I did, both on a target dummy and in trials of valor raid testing and it is a massive nerf to the point where you just take DP instead.

    What more frequent uptime are you talking about, it's still 30 second duration, 2 min cd, or are you implying you ever get out of range on a raid boss and it's giving you more boss uptime.
    New crusade is 21 second CD on recharges


  17. #1817
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunavale View Post
    https://twitter.com/Solsacra/status/786795752743768065

    Before you start, dps neutral means that you do the same damage whether you took the talent or have no talent at all. Baseline wings is better than new crusade, it's that bad.
    There we go. Thank you!

  18. #1818
    Quote Originally Posted by Fullmetalmoo View Post
    New crusade is 21 second CD on recharges

    no. download the PTR. you're making yourself look silly.

  19. #1819
    the PTR that hasn't been updated to reflect the most recent changes?

    k

  20. #1820
    It isn't on 21 second CD lol - it obviously can't be, are you new to the game or something?
    They always told me I would miss my family... but I never miss from close range.

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