Developers having troubles finding a solution for people leaving M+ dungeons

[Reyzzz]

How about this?

When a player leaves a group in mythic dungeon, that player will receive locked (not depleted) key, which will require completing one m+ dungeon in time to become unlocked (usable) again. If the key used was the leavers, then the key will become also locked.

Then, Leader of the remaining group is given a 1 minute timer to decide whether or not they will want to reset the run (key will not convert into depleted).

Ez pz.

[lockedout]

Other then someone dcing never had someone leave. We had someone dc on first pull in Maw+3 4 manned it still got 3 chests. Sounds like people are leaving fail groups.

[Alvito]

Leaving and being removed is not the same thing.

It has been handled the same in the past. Ultimately Blizzard will do something, it will be a far from perfect fix. If we are lucky it wont some how mess with something else.

[lockedout]

Go play counterstrike, I would have it banned for 7 days on all toons. Then 14. then 28. Too stupid to learn? Lose 10 levels.

In all seriousness, all we need is if somone DCs or leaves then a window pops up. "You want to start again?" Y/N. If there is no real punishment for the keyholder then who cares.

So if it looks like a bad run just have someone leave and start over? So abuseable...

[Kkarrl]

Actually, that idea is not as bad as it sounds first.

However I would handle it a bit differently:

1. The punishment is stacking, so if you do it more often the requiered number of instances completed rises
2. First time: 6 heroics OR regular Mythics before you are allowed to join M+ again.
3. Second time: 12 heroics or regular Mythics etc.
4. Now comes the twist: If you have most of your AP spend into a DD specc and you complete the punishment instances as either Tank or Healer one of them counts for 3.
e.g. You are a second time offender feral Druid, so you have to do 12 heroics or normal Mythics as DD. You are now switching to tank. You finish 1 instance. Now you only have 9 more instances to go. You switch to heal and finish another one, now you have 6 more to go. You queue 6 times as DD and finish all of them and are allowed back in M+ again. You are note qualified for role specific bonus satchels in heroic mode.
Yeah, if you already put most of your AP into tank or heal specc, you can switch to DD for a reduction of 2 dungeons at a time. However, if you decide to go as tank or healer you are still able to get role specific bonus loot.


This will achieve 3 things:
1. Punish the leaver, so he will think again before he leaves next time
2. Reduces the wait time for dungeons
3. It actually encourages players to try different roles and helps to unterstand other people. The tank who thinks "nice, I can just go DD to get rid of my penalty" suddenly has a problem to find groups and faces long wait times. Perhaps this will help him to understand why it is so frustrating for DDs when he leaves the M+.
The DD suddenly sees how it feels to tank and that it can get really frustrating if DDs are not focussing the main target and are not interrupting casts and that perhaps, just perhaps, it was also a little bit their fault that the last tank left the M+ because they called him "f*cking noob" when he died because no one interrupted those damn imps in Court of Stars M+4.

Of course this system could also be improved in some way, but I think this could work.

This seems overthought, but along the lines of something that could work.
Assess an increasing penalty for repeat offenders that allows them to play, yet removes them from the specific content they are abusing. The penalty could start at 0 to allow for the oh-shit real life happenings. There could also be a subsystem to reset the counter for a predetermined length of good behavior.
This is basically an automated reputation system. Keeping the individual's violations private may be desirable also. As someone earlier stated, having a blemish on your record for any reason will lead to a really difficult time in the LFG tool.

[Alvito]

How about this?

When a player leaves a group in mythic dungeon, that player will receive locked (not depleted) key, which will require completing one m+ dungeon in time to become unlocked (usable) again.

Then, Leader of the remaining group is given a 1 minute timer to decide whether or not they will want to reset the run (key will not convert into depleted).

Ez pz.

As they said if they did your fix people would quit on purpose when timers were missed just to be able to restart it.

[Kkarrl]

The devs not being able to solve the problem without creating other problems is understandable. Putting a system in place that has so many inherent weaknesses is the head-scratcher.
I haven't done this level of content yet(I'm a dirty casual these days). And from what I'm reading the problem isn't rampant, but shouldn't have been a surprise that needed a reaction fix. This is something obvious that should have been foreseen and addressed.

[Krom2040]

This quote is from the dev post:

"If your keystone didn't deplete if someone dropped, it would invite people to ALT+F4 or drop as soon as something went wrong which reduces the associated challenge of a mythic keystone run - particularly at the higher end."

This is what I don't understand: who could possibly care about this scenario? So what if somebody can re-attempt a run if they're not satisfied with the timer or how the run went up to that point? Aggressive keystone groups are *already* just resetting, because if they're going for really high Mythic+ levels then the content is very difficulty and requires multiple attempts. Besides that obvious point, there's basically *no other content in the game* that locks you out for the rest of the week if something goes wrong, so why did they choose to start with this keystone system?

It seems unequivocally the case to me that it's unacceptable to deplete a keystone whenever somebody leaves or otherwise disconnects. This is just awful design. Your keystone is effectively done for the week, because getting somebody to join a depleted keystone run is pointlessly difficult. It's also just bone-headedly stupid to just claim that people should *always* run keystone dungeons with people who they know, because that's (a) not realistic, (b) makes keystone dungeons even more of a pain in the ass to coordinate than raiding, and (c) still doesn't protect you from the possibility of somebody getting a power outage or Internet disconnect or just needing to go for whatever legitimate real life reason.

In Warlords of Draenor CM Gold runs, I would routinely do a warm-up run before the actual attempt, to go over the strategies and anything tricky that needed to be discussed. This new system is so pointlessly punishing that you can't even do that without ruining your shot at a new keystone.

It boggles my mind that this is even up for debate. The obvious solution is to deplete your keystone at the end of the run, and allow people to reset at will before then. There are effectively no downsides to this alternate system. Nobody is going to get something that they "don't deserve" that they otherwise would not have. It was totally fine working like this in MoP and WoD.

Again, I'm just shocked that this is even being debated, or that people are struggling for other gimmick solutions, when the best alternative is right there in front of them.

[Youn]

As they said if they did your fix people would quit on purpose when timers were missed just to be able to restart it.

So, you mean like challenge mode where people kept resetting the instance until they pulled gold? Ok, so, you spent all evening to get a 3 chest run. I am perfectly fine with that.

My method says, hey, we have missed the timer, let's all teleport out, reevaluate what went wrong and reset the instance to start this over. If you need to switch members out in your group, then you need to switch out members.

[shonist]

You are playing a game that need you to make a group with other people that you dont know.

if ppl are douch-bags, you are rekted my friend.
If this is the case, the only solution its making it a singleplayer game or getting over it.

[Reyzzz]

As they said if they did your fix people would quit on purpose when timers were missed just to be able to restart it.

And the issue with that is?

[xpose]

with this you will not complain anymore that your key its depleted, but you will be here complainign about wasting your time having to try again.because someone leaved.

If someone leaves right now you either have to four man it or the group disbands either way your chances of getting a depleted key and ruining it for the week skyrocket. Removing depleted and making it so you only get gear on beating the time allows for more successful outcomes and further longevity than keeping the current system.


Who cares if you can re-attempt if something goes wrong. You can do that anyway with depleted keys.

[Kaneiac]

How about the keystone doesn't deplete if you don't meet the timer and instead you don't get any loot if you don't meet it?

[Alvito]

So, you mean like challenge mode where people kept resetting the instance until they pulled gold? Ok, so, you spent all evening to get a 3 chest run. I am perfectly fine with that.

My method says, hey, we have missed the timer, let's all teleport out, reevaluate what went wrong and reset the instance to start this over. If you need to switch members out in your group, then you need to switch out members.

Gold challenge mode didn't offer loot the way mythic + does. Your dystem would allow people to side step timers and get +10 to 15 gear they would otherwise be locked from.

[xpose]

As they said if they did your fix people would quit on purpose when timers were missed just to be able to restart it.

What is wrong with that? If anything it makes mythic + much more enjoyable, stress free and adds more longevity to it. The current system does the same thing but with no loot attached to it if you miss the one shot you have to make the timer.

[Alvito]

How about the keystone doesn't deplete if you don't meet the timer and instead you don't get any loot if you don't meet it?

That would make the problem of people leaving even worse. Getting close to missing timers everyone quits.

[Kaneiac]

That would make the problem of people leaving even worse. Getting close to missing timers everyone quits.

So what? At least then if people leave they have the option to reform it with decent players and aren't completely fucked. The system is designed to fail as it is already.

Or if you're looking for a solution, stop being a loner and actually make some friends who won't leave. That seems easier than anything else.

[orderschvank]

listen, make it so keystones don't deplete, but you can only receive loot from any key once...

BINGO

now you don't have to leave (but if you do you forfeit loot from that key, until it upgrades to a diff key), now you can get another group to try and upgrade your key, they get loot but you don't and you accept that.

if someone other than the key holder WILLINGLY leaves, the key holder is allowed to reform and still receive loot from that key, if they dont decide to just 4man the rest of the place.


so

if KEYHOLDER LEAVES, keyholder can no longer receive loot from said key until it upgrades
if ANY PLAYER HAS RECEIVED LOOT FROM A KEY, they can no longer receive loot until said key upgrades
if NON KEYHOLDER LEAVES, the keyholder may reform group if they do NOT decide to finish the instance, also, the NON KEYHOLDING PLAYER, who willingly left, is banished from said key's instance, until it upgrades to a different key.
FAILING TO UPGRADE A KEYSTONE 3 TIMES (WITH DIFFERENT GROUP COMPS) RESULTS IN SAID KEYSTONE BEING DOWNGRADED TO A +2 PERMAMENTLY. (to prevent people from selling/abusing +10 and letting timer expire right before final boss to avoid key upgrade)

[Youn]

Gold challenge mode didn't offer loot the way mythic + does. Your dystem would allow people to side step timers and get +10 to 15 gear they would otherwise be locked from.

If they cannot complete the run in the timer. They would get no loot. If they can complete the run in the timer they would get loot. Granted it might take them 10 attempts to get that loot, but who cares. They spent 10 times the time to get that one object.

[Alvito]

So what? At least then if people leave they have the option to reform it with decent players and aren't completely fucked. The system is designed to fail as it is already.

Or if you're looking for a solution, stop being a loner and actually make some friends who won't leave. That seems easier than anything else.

It might help 1 person in a group of 5 it is much eorse for the other people never mind the fact you now have to spend time running it all over again. Now if you have an endless amount of time great, but if you are a normal person with things to do you can't keep chaining off near misses. Say Halls of Valor, spend 45 minutes in ther and just miss the timer, nobody is going to run that again and hope for loot this time.