Do you think fire mages will be nerfed?

[Deleted]

Exactly this is the nerf to fire - the deeper you go in the expansion Fire will not get extra crit on top of what it already have. For example yesterday my guild downed eye boss and the cloth head piece with 20 ilvl difference(between 865 and 885) was giving +220 int and (watch this) +38 mastery and +31 haste.

So the rough math shows this: for 1% crit u need 350 rating or you need to upgrade roughly 10 gear pieces(out of 14) to get that additional 1%. And Nighthold drop 905 ilvl. So with the rough math here if you manage to deck yourself with full mythic Nighhold gear(no wf/tf) you will have roughly 2% more crit that what you had when you started progression.
AND not to mention that the mage tier have only 2 out of 6 pieces with crit on them. This is additional nerf in my opinion for fire. So screw Emerald Nightmare! The truth lies in Nighthold. There we will see properly how the specs perform.

aye this is so true, i personally believe that the CM that went live was balanced around this, since most of the gear in nighthold will lack crit they made CM better but with the front loaded secondary stats atm that wont be needed, i could definately see CM being buffed from 1,1 to 1,3 again come nighthold or half way through it when ppl get gear from there, its the secondary stats that is carrying fire atm and that will change in nighthold where i would wager a guess that most of the upgrades there will only be a very minor upgrades due to the lack of crit on so many items and as a class we would need the CM 1,3 version to be able to keep up dpswise, it would definately explain why the CM 1,3 version which was blatantly OP at launch actually went live at and later nerfed, it would definately seem that fire was balanced with CM at 1,3 in mind for the endgame, maybe thats just wishful thinking and im flat out wrong.

[willemh]

Guess I wont be wearing tier pieces if 4/6 dont have crit

[mrgreenthump]

Guess I wont be wearing tier pieces if 4/6 dont have crit

Taking a quick look at Nighthold gear, we would have only 2 pieces without crit on them and they would be our 2 non-crit set pieces. So you will have so much crit, the set will probably be worth even if you loose 2k crit in order to use it.

[Deleted]

Why does fire need to be nerfed when its not the best spec at anything?

Not the best at anything but in the top 5/top 3 at just about everything. Potato, potato.

The premise of this thread is doomed to fail: which Fire Mage is going to agree that he or she needs to be nerfed? No one. It's like politicians discussing a cut in their annual wage when there's no incentive to do so: it's not gonna happen.

Fire Mages shouldn't be nerfed though, other classes/specs should be buffed to be in range of the performance of Fire Mages (and MM Hunters) for all types of content (where Fire and MM excel at being a top spec for every scenario).

[Deleted]

Taking a quick look at Nighthold gear, we would have only 2 pieces without crit on them and they would be our 2 non-crit set pieces. So you will have so much crit, the set will probably be worth even if you loose 2k crit in order to use it.

then you havent looked carefully enough, i for example will loose atleast 2500+ crit for a buff that is essentially 3500ish hasterating over all, when you then consider that crit is twice as valuable as haste then that 4pc bonus suddenly doesnt look as appealing anymore, it actually feels like you're getting punished for having a legendary bcoz it forces you to loose even more crit if you have the legendary helm.

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Fire Mages shouldn't be nerfed though, other classes/specs should be buffed to be in range of the performance of Fire Mages (and MM Hunters) for all types of content (where Fire and MM excel at being a top spec for every scenario).

wow, its actually quite refreshing seeing some1 that doesnt whine and bitch about wanting fire nerfed(and no, im not being sarcastic here), some1 that actually sees the big picture, a nerf to a potentially overperforming spec(which fire isnt imo) hurts every1 bcoz it makes it harder for your guild to progress, where as buffing the underperforming spec will benefit all and make it easier to progress, i dont have vocabulary to express the sheer stupidity of asking for nerfs for other specs when it literally doesnt benefit any1. its like demanding every1 else to get laid off bcoz you got laid off, rather than demanding a job yourself, that way of thing is detrimental to every1,

[FASTFORCE]

Well it happened. Pyroblast damage is getting nerfed. Possibly offset by a Flamestrike buff.

[Deleted]

Well it happened. Pyroblast damage is getting nerfed. Possibly offset by a Flamestrike buff.

R.I.P Fire (september 2016-october 2016)

[Syld]

It's like a 2-3% damage nerf, meanwhile shadow priests got destroyed (I can't say it wasn't deserved though)

[Tataie]

Well it is just on PTR,we cant be 100% sure it will be on live too.Let's just hope not.

[pyrostorm9001]

that looks like a gutting, not a nerf

[Astarial]

Taking ignite damage into account, this is about a 4% nerf to mages without bracers and a 5% nerf with bracers. With the buff to flamestrike we will have about the same effectiveness in mythic+ while being slightly worse in raids.

[Toas]

that looks like a gutting, not a nerf

It's literally like 3-4% damage. I don't think nerfing one of the top 2 ranged specs by 3-4% is a "gutting."

[Life-Binder]

its a minor nerf and completely justified

kudos to them for having the balls to bring down fire more in line instead of leaving them untouchable for fear of whining from those who "invested into fire artifact"

[stevenho]

"Completely justified" eh? Let's look at the actual raid performance: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1853

Nythendra - 6th
Il'gynoth - 9th
Elerethe - 1st (by less than a hair)
Ursoc - 3rd
Dragons - 1st (again by less than a hair)
Cenarius - 14th
Xavius - 2nd

Clearly an imba OP spec that deserves to be nerfed.
No question about it.

[Deleted]

R.I.P Fire (september 2016-october 2016)

I guess its time for you to roll to another class because fire mage is so bad right? Let us know when you come back whining after some niche spec like spriest or arms warrior are nerfed and realize that fire mages are in a quite confortable spot

I predict that it won't be long until some FOTM dude actually dares call fire mages worse than elemental shamans

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"Completely justified" eh? Let's look at the actual raid performance: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1853

Nythendra - 6th
Il'gynoth - 9th
Elerethe - 1st (by less than a hair)
Ursoc - 3rd
Dragons - 1st (again by less than a hair)
Cenarius - 14th
Xavius - 2nd

Clearly an imba OP spec that deserves to be nerfed.
No question about it.

Oh my god, fire mage is not top 1 in every fight? What is this madness? My spec should be as faceroll as possible!! Other classes are not allowed to beat me that is intolerable.

Thats how you lot sound like now

[stevenho]

Oh my god, fire mage is not top 1 in every fight? What is this madness? My spec should be as faceroll as possible!! Other classes are not allowed to beat me that is intolerable.

Thats how you lot sound like now

I don't know what your problem with reading comprehension is, but what I said was that we are not top on everything, and that is fine, and we don't need nerfs.

[Deleted]

Oh my god, fire mage is not top 1 in every fight? What is this madness? My spec should be as faceroll as possible!! Other classes are not allowed to beat me that is intolerable.

Thats how you lot sound like now

WTF are you on about? He was just replying to the guy saying it was a justified nerf, and I agree with his assessment - it's hard not to when looking at logs. The rest of the community seems to have this idea that fire is the best performing spec in the game which is just wrong. It is good at most situations but it is rare that it blows other classes out of the water in terms of damage done.

So all this 'they had it coming' mentality is rather odd.

[Deleted]

No. Too many people play them.

Fire mage is obviously overtuned, and they weren't even touched in the balancing patch

Same thing with demon hunters, like 15% of players run themm and a lot of them will be people who resubbed specifically to play

Didn;t you see how they suggested some nerfs and wow, 12 hours later they were like a politician who naively suggests raising tax, massive outcry and they backed off calling it "constructive criticism"

Compare to like six months of feedback from the warlocks in alpha and beta being ignored and in the Q&A they basically said you guys whine too much

Warlock least played class in game, demon hunter most played

Do I think Blizz play favourites?

Of course they damn well do. It's all about keeping the maximum subs rolling in, and if that means unfairly featherbedding certain classes because more peopel play them then that;s just what they do

No different to politicians handing out stuff to pensioners because they know old people are more likely to vote.

The "buff DH cause most people play them to keep the subs rolling in" makes no sense. It's not a pick and chose. If blizzard was balancing around sub numbers then why not just buff demon hunters AND warlocks and get both player bases to resub.

Balance is a delicate process. You need to take in so much factors. In example fire mage in the older expansions was so unstable. Without high crit you do no damage and when you get it you do 20% more damage then other DPS. The same thing is with fury warriors right now. They are scared to buff durations on juggenaut cause when nighthold comes, you get the Convergence of Fate trinket and the execute ring it could potentialy lead to fury Criting all the time with no crit stat what so ever. Right now heroic geared fury, looking at execute phase only, sims around 1mil DPS. Imagine if you started Stacking your execute buff from 100% of the bosses hp and making sure you crit every time. 4 mil dps execute phase.

I just got alot of topic but the point is things like that must not happen. Mages are not overpreforming. With limited spec choice (only DPS) and minimal raid utility I agree we should see mages high on the meters. I hope they buff other specs to fire mage levels so people can still be competitive with their fire counterparts while playing a spec they enjoy more

[GT4]

WTF are you on about? He was just replying to the guy saying it was a justified nerf, and I agree with his assessment - it's hard not to when looking at logs. The rest of the community seems to have this idea that fire is the best performing spec in the game which is just wrong. It is good at most situations but it is rare that it blows other classes out of the water in terms of damage done.

So all this 'they had it coming' mentality is rather odd.

Even using his own cherry-picked data, fire mage is top 3 on 4/7 bosses, upper half on 2/7 bosses and just below average on 1/7 bosses. Now add that fire mage is arguably the strongest Mythic+ spec and certainly the strongest ranged Mythic+ spec overall. Combine all of that and you have a spec that's simply too strong at too many things to be considered balanced in PvE.

Contrary to popular belief, a spec doesn't need to be #1 on all boss fights to be considered too strong. If you didn't notice, SP and MM (the specs right above and right below fire mage) are also getting rightfully nerfed.

[Volitar]

Don't think fire needed a nerf really. Just Spriest and maybe buff the under performing specs but everyone has their pitch forks ready for mage nerfs.