DHs around the world, make your voices heard!

[Deleted]

I haven't really found any M+ bosses that prevent you from fel rushing... You just need to know the fights.

Yes I was talking about rushing out of melee distance there.

[Dizzzzzzzzz]

Sounds like more whining and self-entitlement. DHs are fine. You don't need to organize a protest every time you see a DH doing 50 less dps than the next guy.

We're fine for mythic dungeons and that alone... The best we do on any fight in EN is 6th best class and we don't scale as well. Our rotation also has us constantly moving around which is just a pain for our raid to work around.

Also lol@everyone saying DH dps is fine and that OP is just butthurt, look at WCL... takes 5 seconds for anyone with half a brain to see that we're literally the worst raiding class in the game right now (maybe monk/dk are close but monks have way more mobility when they actually need it and an easier rotation and dk's have grip which is ridiculously useful).

[kaelleria]

Yes I was talking about rushing out of melee distance there.

Walls are your friend.

[aGit]

I really dont know what logs you are looking at but both on Nythendra & Ursoc (two classic ST-fights) DH´s seems to do quite good. I can easily name at least five other specs in bigger need of a ST-buff than DH´s.

Oh, and for the last part, DK´s says hai!

Not saying we need huge buffs, but most specs that are under performing have options.

[Deleted]

Not saying we need huge buffs, but most specs that are under performing have options.

Yes and no. Technically they do, but an Enhancement Shaman that is underperforming is not going to start playing Elemental suddenly (hypothetical example, Enhancement is great at the moment).

[Deleted]

My bad - was mistakenly referring to the 20% damage buff from killing a demon. Doesn't take away from the fact that DH are still better off than monks and DKs atm. Demon Blades performs better than Prepared currently so your point about having to risk survival for DPS isn't as big as you make it out to be. Most classes are jealous of the insane mobility which they see as a fair trade off.

Not going to argue about the DPS since i do think we are fine on raids, nothing to write home about, but except if you are at the very top, what matters the most is not your class.

But demon blades build use fel rush as much as a prepared build, and vengeful retreat only a bit less often, the point is kind of moot. The felguard boss of arcway for example can be a pain in the butthole to work around with in higher mythic+ difficulties, and there are plenty bosses that you can't tank to a wall to allow the DH to perform 100%. But to be honest, i don't care because we are actually very good at mythic+ despite some whiners say and just fine slightly below average on raid logs, but we have the tools to perform the AoE burst when and where it's actually needed, switch instantly target from target, and cleave withouth problems.

[Shirofune]

Yes and no. Technically they do, but an Enhancement Shaman that is underperforming is not going to start playing Elemental suddenly (hypothetical example, Enhancement is great at the moment).

The truth is the only class that is in a more miserable status than us atm are Death Knights.

All of the other specs that are underperforming us have something else to jump on-to.

[Murdnunoc]

I still find it funny when people argue against giving DHs anything they bring up us having the best mobility. We actually don't have good mobility as we need to use it all for DPS. Bringing up us having an easy rotation is also funny as none of these people seem to realize how much having to reposition at least every 8-10 seconds during hectic encounters is not always that easy. Not saying DHs are hard to play but saying they are the easiest class seems a bit ridiculous. I don't think any of them have played a DH well in a raid environment if they believe either of these things.

[Deleted]

The truth is the only class that is in a more miserable status than us atm are Death Knights.

All of the other specs that are underperforming us have something else to jump on-to.

The truth is that melee DPS don't swap to ranged and vice versa in serious raid comps. Your Feral isn't going to be playing Balance because he wants a change of heart.

Get real.

[Shirofune]

The truth is that melee DPS don't swap to ranged and vice versa in serious raid comps. Your Feral isn't going to be playing Balance because he wants a change of heart.

Get real.

??

That wasn't my point tho. And any raid leader will appreciate a role change if you're performing way better on it.

Is not like a range or melee more is gonna change anything. This isn't Cataclysm anymore.

[Socialhealer]

I agree with some of your points and would say we are in a decent place, but coming here making those claims without backing them up makes you look like an asshole.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...7&difficulty=4
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...7&difficulty=4

This is our current single target performance. Our skill cap isn't higher or lower than other classes, we have less buttons to press but the momentum playstyle requires effort and thinking just like other specs do. In some situations, for example small hitboxes or dangerous environmental effects it requires even more effort or isn't even possible to properly pull of which is a very frustrating experience.

And please tell us where you pulled your 10% damage buff fantasy out of.

yet if you do mythic, havoc is doing great.

who cares about sub par DH's? get good.

even nythendra isn't single target on mythic.

so lets buff DH's in heroic, when they're doing great in mythic, which will make them even better in mythic?

[Deleted]

I have no idea where your pulling this thought of DH's being the worst single target in game. That title goes to Frost DK.

Logs don't back up your claim either.
Nythendra Mythic parses show Havoc middle of the pack: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=95&boss=1853 Performing better than the only two DPS options DK has

The only fight that DH's are not better than average or average on is Cenarius, but they still perform better than Frost DK's

[Deleted]

If you would have read the last paragraph you may have noticed that I cant link the info which is needed so I removed all the info links. And regarding to my "poorly" formed bias without proof just got a blue response ^^.

"Errors
The following errors occurred with your submission
You are not allowed to post any kinds of links, images or videos until you post a few times."

- - - Updated - - -

Mmo seems to be a subpar forum where people cant post links to give credit to what they say.

[Dizzzzzzzzz]

I have no idea where your pulling this thought of DH's being the worst single target in game. That title goes to Frost DK.

Logs don't back up your claim either.
Nythendra Mythic parses show Havoc middle of the pack: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=95&boss=1853 Performing better than the only two DPS options DK has

The only fight that DH's are not better than average or average on is Cenarius, but they still perform better than Frost DK's

Worst class, not spec...
Anyone who takes raiding seriously is going to be playing the best spec for their class

[SidFwuff]

yet if you do mythic, havoc is doing great.

who cares about sub par DH's? get good.

even nythendra isn't single target on mythic.

so lets buff DH's in heroic, when they're doing great in mythic, which will make them even better in mythic?

First off: I'm casual now, but in my experience, at "casual" play (LFR through Heroic) no one really cares which class is where on the metres. An extra 30k DPS from one person isn't going to make or break a fight (the difference between Unholy DKs and Frost DKs on the Ursoc link you gave). A failure is going to be because people are failing at mechanics, not their DPS.

That 30k DPS, by the way, is the difference between DHs on Ursoc and Paladins, Demo Locks, and Marks Hunters.

If there's anywhere that 30k DPS would matter, it'd be in Mythic. You know that area that DHs, by your own admission, don't need help?

Second:

Let me understand this correctly:

You're pointing to 2 out of 7 fights, on casual difficulties and claiming that just because DHs are a bit behind the middle they're incapable of raiding. Do I have that correct? A 10% damage buff, say, would make DHs viable in raids?

That's 26K DPS on Ursoc, and place DHs just above Balance Druids on the list.

The following classes are now useless and should be dropped from raids:

- Mages. All of them (Fire is 'iffy', as it's tied with DH)
- Death Knights. All of them
- Fury Warriors
- WW monks (The only DPS spec for them)
- Both BM and Surv Hunters
- Aff and Destro Locks
- Elemental Shamans
- Outlaw Rogues


Does that look good to you?

If not, why don't you give us a list of 12+ DPS specs that should be worse than DHs and therefor benched from casual raids?

[Gratlim]

I have more problems with the class being pigeonholed in one talent (momentum) build than the average DPS tbh. First Blood / Blade dance build need some love.

[Socialhealer]

First off: I'm casual now, but in my experience, at "casual" play (LFR through Heroic) no one really cares which class is where on the metres. An extra 30k DPS from one person isn't going to make or break a fight (the difference between Unholy DKs and Frost DKs on the Ursoc link you gave). A failure is going to be because people are failing at mechanics, not their DPS.

That 30k DPS, by the way, is the difference between DHs on Ursoc and Paladins, Demo Locks, and Marks Hunters.

If there's anywhere that 30k DPS would matter, it'd be in Mythic. You know that area that DHs, by your own admission, don't need help?

Second:

Let me understand this correctly:

You're pointing to 2 out of 7 fights, on casual difficulties and claiming that just because DHs are a bit behind the middle they're incapable of raiding. Do I have that correct? A 10% damage buff, say, would make DHs viable in raids?

That's 26K DPS on Ursoc, and place DHs just above Balance Druids on the list.

The following classes are now useless and should be dropped from raids:

- Mages. All of them (Fire is 'iffy', as it's tied with DH)
- Death Knights. All of them
- Fury Warriors
- WW monks (The only DPS spec for them)
- Both BM and Surv Hunters
- Aff and Destro Locks
- Elemental Shamans
- Outlaw Rogues


Does that look good to you?

If not, why don't you give us a list of 12+ DPS specs that should be worse than DHs and therefor benched from casual raids?

no idea what you're trying to say where did i say DH's are behind the middle and they're incapable of raiding?

are you just making up your own argument to try win it against yourself?

[Lokasu]

Think some people might not have noticed what was actually said... no one said worst dps SPEC.. it was stated CLASS, since we only have 1 dps spec. Others can switch to other specs to perform better. We do NOT have that option.

[Deleted]

Worst class, not spec...
Anyone who takes raiding seriously is going to be playing the best spec for their class

Okay. Right. Havoc usually performs better than both Unholy and Frost Dk. There is only one fight this tier that Havoc Demon Hunters do less DPS than Unholy and that's Cenarius, where the DPS difference is 4k. So they are not the worst performing DPS spec.

Let's compare tanks. The two worst tanks right now are Blood Dk's and BrewMaster.

So Havoc Demon Hunters performs better than both Death Knight DPS specs and Vengence performs better than Blood DK. Hmmmm I don't think it's the worst class in game.

[aGit]

I somehow missed part one of this thread, sorry for letting it cap out. I'll review this in the morning and get some questions out to the development team so we can share some insight on upcoming DH changes. Hopefully I will be able to help explain our thinking/philosophy here.

ugh, i really don't like the sound of this. Nothing good ever comes about when blizzard messes with classes.