Tank Appreciation in mythic+?

[monkmastaeq]

I appreciate tanks that aren't whiny and entitled, which is practically zero

[Polarthief]

High level mythics are not 2/3, people are usually pissed there because you are simply not pulling fast enough for 3 chest run.

If people expect Gold runs in pugs, they're high as fuck or super overgeared for said M+.

[Super Kami Dende]

As a Tank you can never under appreciate a good healer. I don't think Tanking is that stressful and if DPS get mouthy I just ignore them and keep going.

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I appreciate tanks that aren't whiny and entitled, which is practically zero

Sucks to be you if you've only ever met tanks like that.

[Nayami]

You sound like someone that's never even tanked a Raging/Necrotic dungeon, let alone actually difficult shit like 10+.

10+? Nice, I'm happy for you. Now try tank Raging/Necrotic as a Blood DK where your AM is absolute shit because Necrotic dots eat your Bone shield stacks and reduce your healing/blood shield and all you have for AM checks is Death Strike instead of Shield of the Righteous which has a whopping 3 charges and is on its own GCD.

lol ~ If that's all I did, we'd never get more than one chest. You left out the parts about stunning, interrupting, healing the healer, rotating a variety of CDs with split-second precision because using the wrong one at the wrong time could mean a wipe, kiting, picking up back-pulls and face-pulls and barrage-pulls, all while listening to back-seat tanks telling you you're doing it wrong. :P

Because only the tank stuns/interrupts/slows mobs for you to kite, right?

Also, did you ever stop to think that all these 'back-seat tanks' constantly complaining could mean that you're actually doing something wrong?

[Rhoe]

The problem doesn't seem to be tanking being stressful, but the random people being assholes. Put the people who are both good and nice on your friends list. Start asking them to come to another dungeon instead of constantly picking up new strangers. Get on voice comms, people are rarely as rude there as in text. Your dungeons will improve. I've tanked up to +8 in my offspec, and nobody's even been rude to me even when I'm panicking asking wtf to pull next in CoS, simply because I'm only grouping up with friends and they know they have nothing to gain by antagonizing me. And honestly, this last reset I've felt more relaxed when tanking as keeping track of lava pools under my fat boomy form while looking out for casts to interrupt and keeping dots up has been way more stressful. Also I've never done a mythic+ with a hunter, probably helps.

[Kholod]

tanking is just as stressful as healing idd. Often there're situations when tank or dps are pulling when healer has all CDs burnt, healer has no mana, party is at 10% after taking heavy aoe.....pull, pull, pull.... if some1 goes down, they often spirit release instead of w8ing for ress, which takes less time obv. and in the end it's tank/healer fault that timer wasn't met.

[Kikazz]

SNIP

i agree, and yeah sometimes you get the bad luck of the straw and get some really retarded people you have to deal with, but learning the combos of the week and putting a plan into place in case you are grouped with said retards or a healer who is lacking, thats what makes a tanks job easier

Speaking as a tank, fuck tanks. Picking up stray adds and hitting them with your snap aggro ability is not hard. Chain pulling and knowing how to watch healer mana is not hard.

Appreciate a good healer. Especially one who can dispell and do some damage.

yes doing that makes a good tank,

but also getting yelled at for not waiting on healers when we stop and say in chat mana and the healer says there fine.
then presumes to oom and dps die, or stupid shit like that, sucks as a tank.
ive tanked some 7/8+ even a 9+ halls of valour.

the week we just had was Necrotic and Raging, i had a priest life grip me back to him multiple times, or knock mobs in my direction.
its fucking stressfull as a tank, they removed half our mitigigation and then gave us sub par shit to survive.

what op is probably suffering from is not having as much survivability as he had in previous expacs.
me i use a Guardian druid, yeah i got 5m health, and i have an 865 ilvl, but sometimes healers suck, dps suck, tanks have to suck it up and survive.

telling a tank its his fault when hes outlining why its not his fault and giving evidence is a bit stupid imo.

also serious question:

DO YOU PLAY A HEALER?

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As a Tank you can never under appreciate a good healer. I don't think Tanking is that stressful and if DPS get mouthy I just ignore them and keep going.

can i ask a favour please go tank a M+ with the week we just had that was Raging and Necrotic.
dps can be stupid yes to a point, but not knowing how to make things easier is just a pain.



This is why i dont pug the majority of runs if i have guildies online

[PassingBy]

I am no super tank, and have tanked only up to M+11, but I'll tell you this - your job as a tank, if you are doing everything right, is not much harder, than the job of the DPS that is doing his stuff right, or a healer that is doing his stuff right.

On lower levels it is even more so. You can beat a timer with a shit tank, and very good dps, you will bash your head on the wall in a party with an exeptional tank and 3 shitty dps. I've done some pretty terrible +2/3 runs with ppl that can't manage to do more damage than I am even on ST, not just on trash.

Your work as a tank is to set up the pace, understand the capabilities of your group and manage wtf is going on. While you have to know what to pull and when, and also do some kiting now and then the DPS have to dish out the best burst aoe they can do, while timing it perfectly on some of the affixes (bolstering/raging), while helping you stay alive with proper stuns/interrupts/knockbacks etc.

In a proper mythic+ (at least above 8) everyone has to be carrying their weight (unless you have 2 godly DPS, that can carry 1 that is not so good). The tanks job is more tactical, the DPS job is more mechanical. You can't do good without either.
You finished the dungeon and got the amount of chests you wanted -> means everyone did a proper and good job.
And the DPS should be appreciated as much as the tank, or the healer.

I've been doing some mythics as DPS, not to get rusty, since my guild needs me sometimes to go DPS in raids and the amount of whiney, arrogant, bitchy pricks tanking is just astonishing. The first few days that I've qued as DPS I was shocked by how awful is the tanking community. The probability of running into a bad DPS is prolly higher, since there are 3 in a group, but the percentage of morons in tank community is the biggest out of all the roles.

[Deleted]

If every group you join there's people telling you you're doing it wrong then you might actually be doing it wrong. If you find tanking to be stressful then it's simply not for you. You're literally saying that because you have to pull only certain mobs and not pull too much you're triggered when someone mentions 1. not pulling too much and 2. not pulling certain packs. The only reason that gets raised is because you most likely are trying to kill all the trash in a dungeon.

Now for the affixes - as a tank the only affixes your playing affects by a large amount are necrotic, skittish ,and sanguine. All you have to do for necrotic is know when to reset your stacks i.e. drop a stun and leap away. For skittish you need to deal as much damage as possible in order to keep a semblance of aggro. For sanguine you need to move the mobs as they die so they're not stood in blood. At +5 you're only going to deal with one of raging, sanguine and teeming so you're looking at 1. the DPS killing things at the same time because of raging while using stuns when they get low 2. moving mobs out of blood 3. dps CCing certain mobs where applicable.

At +5 your job is literally to not pull random things and stay alive which is more or less you using your cooldowns appropriately. At some point you'll need to look at reality and that is that +5 is easy to tank. You're not literally carrying people unless you're incredible(since your highest is +5 you most likely aren't) and even then it's proper pulls & using your cc right that does it. The impact you can have as a tank(when comparing a incredible tank & an average tank) is a lot smaller then the impact(using the same comparison) a DPS or healer makes. The reason why you're not getting any appreciation isn't down to the community, it's because you're not as good as you think and can't handle people trying to tell you what you're doing wrong.

[tratra]

Bare with me while I try to collect my thoughts and understand my viewpoint on why I feel this way. I first started tanking in BC with a prot pally and I've played on and off since then still as a prot pally. I feel I know the class pretty well and my tank awareness is pretty high for the current level of content I do. However I feel I get more stressed and triggered when tanking than I do as RET dps or Holy healing in raids. This mostly boils down to the speed mentality of tanking and especially true in my experience in mythic+ dungeons.

I've tanked only up to +5 mythics but I do a lot of +2/+3 and regular mythics which are pretty easy mode. I manage my survability sticks, always have potions at the ready. However in these mythic+ dungeon runs since you're timed I feel the stress is solely on the tank at least 80-90% while the healer makes up the rest. It doesn't take a lot for a dps to press 5 buttons max and tunnel a target but as the tank I have to watch the whole group, see if anyone pulls extra mobs, I have to navigate each corridor properly to avoid pulling too much or too little and making our run slower in the mythic+ thus possibly losing out on 3 chests.

To be honest it gets very tiring running with sometimes random people (minus my DPS friend I help carry sometimes since he got long ques). I need to be super focused when doing high end runs because if shit goes bad the whole group usually blames the tank because I pulled a mob we could have "skipped" or I pulled the wrong mob or I pulled too slow. Honestly getting shit talked from randoms that have no idea how stressful tanking is just gets under my skin after a while. I feel there is no tank appreciation in any mythic+ I've ran at all. I'm currently 859 with 1 legendary pants on my prot pally and I find the game SO much easier if I just que up as ret dps and join a +5 dungeon run. I don't have anything to worry about or stress over except using my stun/ interrupt and making sure I don't die to cleave attacks. That is so easy plus I'm already watching for those things when I tank anyway but as dps I don't have to lead the way.

I usually can do 3 back to back high end runs before I just get triggered (aka being able to rage at someone for telling me to skip this mob or they pull for me) then I usually log out and chill for a bit.

This can't just be only me there must be other tanks out there that feel we are taken for granted in mythic+ runs when we have to organize the whole thing majority of the time.

Yes I make my own groups 90% of the time and when I join other groups they are usually trying to tell me what to do in a non constructive way. With the mindset of zerg dps everyone just goes mongo and blames the tank if things go bad. getting tired of it.

I usually heal in raids as holy since its a larger role I can carry. I guess thats it i'm mostly the carry in these groups 90% of the time and it would be nice if I could just sit back, chill and sip some iced tea while getting carried myself as a DPS.

I think I just dont like most of the DPS i've played with they feel like they are a tank and want to lead but dont have the biggest balls to actually tank so they play hunter instead

I stopped reading after the 2nd paragraph. You sir have no idea about mythic+ and while its alright to share your opinion, its not alright to think that tanks are everything, hense you can't really tank well.

Mythic+ is a composition of besting your abilities for any spec. I am a healer, and I think I do as much as the tank and the dps do. Let me explain it to you:

Tanks: The tank needs to know how to use his abilities properly, cd's on the right time, know when to pull and how to reach 100%, what to skip, and the pace. The tank plays an important role on setting up the pace of the mythic+ and reaching the goal of the specific team.

Healers: The healer needs to have mana no matter what happens, no matter how fast the tank is pulling, he has to adopt to the pace of the tank and the requirements to reach the goal. Thats not the hardest or the easiest thing to do but its doable. The healer also needs to know when to push more healing, cd's etc appropriate to fights and trash packs, don't forget that trash are harder than bosses in mythic+. Also healer has to make sure that he makes enough damage to help in the fight.

DPS: (here is your misconception) They need to make sure that they make a fair amount of damage, and they need to make sure that they avoid every single thing. Also they need to know and understand when to push defensive CD's and when they have to push their dps.

So overall everyone has things to do in a mythic+ , tanks set the pace, healers keep everyone up, dps clear the instance.

Its important to understand that you usually get 3 dps, if they suck or 1 guy sucks and takes too much dmg, doesnt know how to use his cd's etc then its not gonna go down well.

[Highwhale]

Its so annoying when dps ask chain pull and show shit numbers. So i need kite shit forever. Also hunters - 90% of them are fucking retards. Im ok if they pull with MD so i dont need waste spare cd for group up mobs. Because its shit when i must waste my death grip just to aggro mob from distance when i could use it for spell interrupt.

[OrcsRLame]

10+? Nice, I'm happy for you. Now try tank Raging/Necrotic as a Blood DK where your AM is absolute shit because Necrotic dots eat your Bone shield stacks and reduce your healing/blood shield and all you have for AM checks is Death Strike instead of Shield of the Righteous which has a whopping 3 charges and is on its own GCD.



Because only the tank stuns/interrupts/slows mobs for you to kite, right?

Also, did you ever stop to think that all these 'back-seat tanks' constantly complaining could mean that you're actually doing something wrong?

Nah, I'd rather not roll to an inferior tank.

[Marrilaife]

That's why I don't pug mythic+. This community is full of "better than thou" types. Everyone thinks they're amazing it's just this bad tank / healer / something else holding them back, while in reality they're just barely average.

Pugs just have an attitude. We had a 4-man guild party with an alt bringing a keystone, we had to pug 1 person and immediately that pug tried to commandeer us, tell us what to do, and behave like he ate all the wisdoms of the world.

This thread is another example of no humility. Everyone is starting the usual "this content is easy", "this job is easy", "it was probably your fault anyway" and so on.

[lordzed83]

When I tank some random m+ and people piss me off I LEAVE fuck them and their key.

Love playing with good healers. And then You get Healer that dies on last boss in MAW cause he cant see breath and wipe 5 fucking times due to that.

Nothing worse in m+ than healers that die from shit on ground cause they just wanted to finish casting ...

[Snuffleupagus]

yes doing that makes a good tank,

but also getting yelled at for not waiting on healers when we stop and say in chat mana and the healer says there fine.
then presumes to oom and dps die, or stupid shit like that, sucks as a tank.
ive tanked some 7/8+ even a 9+ halls of valour.

the week we just had was Necrotic and Raging, i had a priest life grip me back to him multiple times, or knock mobs in my direction.
its fucking stressfull as a tank, they removed half our mitigigation and then gave us sub par shit to survive.

what op is probably suffering from is not having as much survivability as he had in previous expacs.
me i use a Guardian druid, yeah i got 5m health, and i have an 865 ilvl, but sometimes healers suck, dps suck, tanks have to suck it up and survive.

telling a tank its his fault when hes outlining why its not his fault and giving evidence is a bit stupid imo.

also serious question:

DO YOU PLAY A HEALER?

I play a tank, do you not read?

I mean, admittedly, I have a healer, but I enjoy tanking more because it is very easy.

[Deleted]

lol

so lets see, you have the 90% stress by having to mash your aoe aggro ability

and expect a healer to watch 5 bars, stuff on the ground and do some dps for the rest of 10% stress

lol hahahaha. no appreciation for you, don't deserve any.

[Targom]

The impact you can have as a tank(when comparing a incredible tank & an average tank) is a lot smaller then the impact(using the same comparison) a DPS or healer makes.

I'm really surprised as how unimpactful tank has felt so far this expansion, it probably doesn't help that I'm a monk and my dps spec is near the top and my tank spec is near the bottom. It just feels like if I tank and we get a subpar dps it is a lot worse than if I'm just dpsing and we have a tank who isn't bad. I don't feel the gap between an ok tank and a good/great tank makes as much of a difference as it used to.

[Njay]

As a M+ tank which tanked up to keystone level 9 Arcway, I wanted to take a moment to share my thoughts about the issues that are displayed here. I do want to say that I have not tanked higher than +7 in pugs.

At first, I am stating that every role is as much important as the other. And yes, this includes DPS, obviously.

I think setting out the roles and their responsibilities is the best way to go here, to show each and every one of you realizes why the other role is just as important as yours.

Tanks

- Can not survive without managing his cooldowns properly
- On higher levels of definitely can't survive if the DPS doesn't set up a proper stun rotation
- Has to get out of all avoidable damage, since avoidable damage is usually leading to a wipe
- Has to lead the party through the instance and has to be reasonable quick about it
- Has to realize what the healer's strength, playstyle and speed are
- Has to realize what the DPS strengths, playstyles, and speed are
- Has to know what CC abilites the party has

Healer

- Has to quickly assess how the tank is geared, how his speed is, and manage mana accordingly
- Has to assess the sanity of the DPS, which one is not able to keep himself alive / standing in fire
- Has to realize what the DPS strengths, playstyles, and speed are
- Has to know what CC abilites the party has
- Has to patch up every form of avoidable damage on the group

DPS

- Has to communicate with other DPS about stun rotations
- Has to know what CC abilites the party has
- Should NOT pull unless asked to by the tank
- Has to know their class to perfection mechanically in order to maximize dps output

Every role is as important as the other, if one fails, the other 4 will fail as well. Don't think for a second that if you stand in the back of the group pewpewing away at enemies 20yards away you're not able to do anything but that, there is also other stuff you can do to help out the group.

And to sum it al up:

IF YOU CROWD CONTROL, YOU WILL GO FASTER. IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, NO EXCEPTIONS.

[Deleted]

My best tip is to tank with a Healer you know. It changes the game and reinforces how expendable bad DPS are.

[Deleted]

Mythic+ is highlighting bad players like never before. At higher levels you can't carry anyone. This is especially true of tank and healer (because there are only 1 of each), you can possibly carry one low dps if the other 2 are good.

The interesting thing for me is that it isn't just about numbers. I've already run some with players who have always been able to push out good numbers yet can't seem to find their defensive cooldowns when it matters or can't co-ordinate interrupt or stun rotations.

I'm maining a resto shaman and I consider my job to be;
1. Doing my job in the stun/interrupt rotations
2. Healing & dispelling
3. Dealing damage
Usually in that order.

My observations have been that the difference between good and bad tanks is quite apparent, even within the same class. I'm lucky to know 2 good prot warriors and 1 good blood dk.

I have also played my SV hunter alt up to +6 and I can say that a spec like SV has no place in anything higher than that at present since we have no stun and interrupt on a 15s timer which is longer than any other melee.

Essentially, Mythic+ is brilliantly forcing players to use their entire toolkit in order to succeed, those that don't/won't/can't will be left behind and that applies to tanks, healers and dps. I'm a decent player and it is making me a better one.