Developers having troubles finding a solution for people leaving M+ dungeons

[Puri]

I don't get why they struggle so hard making the dungeon resettable without depleting the keystone. What does it change? You still will only get one loot crate per keystone. And if you want to recharge your keystone you can do so also right now.

If you are in such a dedicated group that you want to make the timer, you will just complete the current run and then repeat it with the depleted stone until you make it.
I don't see why it would be so hard to not have to complete it first and then start again (where in pugs you will very likely find no other players to join) but to be able to reset it midway and still get loot.

[Floopa]

there's no elegant solution but there are certainly ways you can "flag" people who have left dungeons etc. the script below:

/script local t=0;local ids={10880, 10883, 10886, 10889, 10892, 10895, 10898, 10901, 10904, 10907, 10910};for i=1,table.getn(ids) do t=t+GetStatistic(ids[i]) end;print(t)

tracks how many mythic+ dungeons have been completed, on my main (MW) i have completed 85 mythic+ dungeons, on my alt (Disc Priest) i have completed 54. if there is a way of tracking how many m+ dungeons have been completed then there must be a method of flagging when 1 has been abandoned, left, etc. simply give people a note when applying to m+ groups (and make M+ a category on LFG) which shows how many m+ dungeons have been completed, and how many have been abandoned.

for example, i know for certain i've left only 2 on my disc priest and i've left 1 on my monk. if you see me apply as a MW and it shows "85 completed, 1 abandoned" that's pretty damn reassuring i'm in it for a long haul, if you see my disc priest which is "54 completed, 2 abandoned" that is less so.

[PassingBy]

Out of 200+ mythic+ that I have done i've had for sure less than 10, and probably closer to 3-4 times (don't remember exactly) that a person just left the mythic abandoning it.

And then on top of that more or less the same amount of ppl losing connection, getting rez dc'ed and then kicked out of the dungeon by buggy blizz system, without possibility to get back in on time.

Is it really that big of a problem?
Just put the guy on your ignore list, so you don't group with him again and move on.

[D3athsting]

48hrs ban plz

[phuzy]

Dont invite before making clear the goals of your run.

[avoidconfusion]

If you leave an M+ group your Legendary gets deleted, Artifact Knowledge and Power are reset to 0 and all Faction Rep will be set to Hostile!

[Lucetia]

tracks how many mythic+ dungeons have been completed, on my main (MW) i have completed 85 mythic+ dungeons, on my alt (Disc Priest) i have completed 54. if there is a way of tracking how many m+ dungeons have been completed then there must be a method of flagging when 1 has been abandoned, left, etc. simply give people a note when applying to m+ groups (and make M+ a category on LFG) which shows how many m+ dungeons have been completed, and how many have been abandoned.

As many others have sound, just because it'd say abandoned how do we know that they didn't get d/c'ed, the group booted them, a major event happened and they had to leave at the moment and the list goes on. Granted it's a quick info thing, but just because you have a Good and Bad doesn't mean necessarily much.

[Laronda]

You are not thinking enough about every possible scenario and how this type of system would affect them. This is why the guys at Blizzard get paid to do their job and why you don't.

Your post screams of naivety and probably originated from a couple of bad experiences. Guess what, this shit happens to everyone every so often. Just get over it and try to focus on getting groups together that you know you can trust.

[Flurryfang]

How about the keystone doesn't deplete if you don't meet the timer and instead you don't get any loot if you don't meet it?

That is gonna give a horrible backlash. This makes it so that you might end up doing a dungeon for 1 hour and get nothing out of it. Most casual groups would drop the system if this was the cache, since they could end up completly wasting their time.

[BiggestNoob]

That is gonna give a horrible backlash. This makes it so that you might end up doing a dungeon for 1 hour and get nothing out of it. Most casual groups would drop the system if this was the cache, since they could end up completly wasting their time.

It's practice, you either accept that you're learning or you realize you're not going to make it and start over.

You don't get that paycheck for finishing your work 2 years late and you don't get credit on that school work you turned in a semester late.

[Flurryfang]

It's practice, you either accept that you're learning or you realize you're not going to make it and start over.

You don't get that paycheck for finishing your work 2 years late and you don't get credit on that school work you turned in a semester late.

This is the same reason why so many people did not bother to even touch CM in MoP and WoD. When you are very insecure in your ability to clear the instance in a good enough time, then you are really pushed away from trying.

It is not like you are not doing the instance... You are still clearing a mythic dungeon, where all mobs have X% more hp/dmg, so you are really doing your job. Not having a reward is just gonna keep people away from trying harder tiers of mythic+ and will give newcomers a bad experience. We already have people, who cry about not having time to do mythic dungeons, just think what would happend if you used 40min on creating a mythic+ group for Arcway and 45 min on clearing it to finally get 0 loot.

So, it would be a very bad system.

[Jotaux]

cant kick or cant remove ?


cause Ive just been removed from the (rather assholish tbf) boost group I was in (my 4 key was used to start) mid-run ... dunno if it was via votekick or the leader just removed me

I just got a msg saying i will be teleported to the nearest graveyard in 60 seconds, no grp and depleted key .. no loot


was a little stunned, didnt think that was even technically possible in M+


if its no bug and anyone can in fact be removed in M+ - doesnt that mean that boost groups can technically kick their boostee as soon as he used his key to start the run ?

They can remove you though that is a pretty dick move. Even if you are terrible they now have to 4 man it anyways.

[swiftdeus]

This is the same reason why so many people did not bother to even touch CM in MoP and WoD. When you are very insecure in your ability to clear the instance in a good enough time, then you are really pushed away from trying.

It is not like you are not doing the instance... You are still clearing a mythic dungeon, where all mobs have X% more hp/dmg, so you are really doing your job. Not having a reward is just gonna keep people away from trying harder tiers of mythic+ and will give newcomers a bad experience. We already have people, who cry about not having time to do mythic dungeons, just think what would happend if you used 40min on creating a mythic+ group for Arcway and 45 min on clearing it to finally get 0 loot.

So, it would be a very bad system.

You get loot for clearing the dungeon reguardless of the time. What is the difference between not doing the dungeon at all and not making the time? The difference is you get loot for trying.

[Flurryfang]

You get loot for clearing the dungeon reguardless of the time. What is the difference between not doing the dungeon at all and not making the time? The difference is you get loot for trying.

Ohh it was directed at the guy, who wanted to have a system, where you did not get any loot, if you missed the timer. I am very happy, that you still get a small amount of loot for clearing the instance even without meeting the timer.

[Djriff]

Ohh it was directed at the guy, who wanted to have a system, where you did not get any loot, if you missed the timer. I am very happy, that you still get a small amount of loot for clearing the instance even without meeting the timer.

I mean it works, but if they took away key depletion and instead made it no loot for not completing in time, it would be fair. Mythic + is suppose to be challenging and honestly this game could use a little more git gud stuff in it.

[swiftdeus]

Ohh it was directed at the guy, who wanted to have a system, where you did not get any loot, if you missed the timer. I am very happy, that you still get a small amount of loot for clearing the instance even without meeting the timer.

Sorry about that, I'm late to the party apparently. You shouldn't indulge in the troll's idea... no one is truly advocating for no loot without making timer, its asinine.

Wonder when this thread is going to be closed. Hasn't been a decent idea on how to resolve the issue in a while and arguably the only issue with the current system is disconnects.

[Djriff]

Wonder when this thread is going to be closed. Hasn't been a decent idea on how to resolve the issue in a while and arguably the only issue with the current system is disconnects.

There's more than just that issue, to list them:

Disconnects
Boost Kicking (can be a thing at 2-5)
Leavers

They can fix boost kicking pretty easily, although people that do it are horrible and the whole dungeon should just end right there IMO, only if they were kicked though.

[netherflame]

TBH there isn't much you can give to back to the group or the keystone holder, I think you need to give the person who leaves a 7 day debuff that doesn't allow them to enter mythic+ dungeons.

[Flurryfang]

I mean it works, but if they took away key depletion and instead made it no loot for not completing in time, it would be fair. Mythic + is suppose to be challenging and honestly this game could use a little more git gud stuff in it.

But you also want people to use the system. Having you get 0 loot for doing 1 hour work is a horrible feeling and will push people away from trying stuff, which they are not completly sure they would ace. Just think of mythic+ dungeons as big boss fights. If blizzard ever put a 1 hour boss fight into the game, people would go crazy because progression would be a pain, if you only had problems with the 10% of the boss. Now lets transfer that to mythic+ dungeons. You have cleared mythic +4 in record time, but the lass boss is giving you some trouble. You wipe on him 4 times and you are now not going to make the time. So you have pretty much wasted 1 hour without getting anything and while this have worked for CM, in a world where Blizzard want people to pug for Mythic+, getting 0 loot would flush out alot of less-hardcore players, who right now are "progressing" through the lower stages of mythic+.

I agree, that we need more git gud/ hard stuff in the game. I hope, that Karazhan will to some extent bring that with it, but i really think that people should always get some reward for actually taking their time and teaming up with other players.

Edit: This is also one of the reasons why raids have a free-loot first boss, because even you fail hard on the other bosses, you atleast got a chance for some times by just doing the entry boss.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry about that, I'm late to the party apparently. You shouldn't indulge in the troll's idea... no one is truly advocating for no loot without making timer, its asinine.

Wonder when this thread is going to be closed. Hasn't been a decent idea on how to resolve the issue in a while and arguably the only issue with the current system is disconnects.

It is a great discussion to have, because reward-in-exchange-for-time is one of the core systems in the game. Having a high reward or low reward pr min played changes the game completly and it can either make it good or bad Bouncing ideas and opnions off each other is always a fun thing to do and it makes you evolve as a thinker

- - - Updated - - -

There's more than just that issue, to list them:

Disconnects
Boost Kicking (can be a thing at 2-5)
Leavers

They can fix boost kicking pretty easily, although people that do it are horrible and the whole dungeon should just end right there IMO, only if they were kicked though.

I think i will agree with Watcher, that finding a solution to this system is really hard, since it is very dangerous if it becomes exploitable. Mythic+ is supposed to be a hardcore/high end experience, but it can easily be made into a joke by people abusing the kicking/punishment system or by people using wierd methods of keyjumping if Blizzard is not careful.

I think the system is alright atm. It is not perfect, very little in WoW is, but it is enjoyable a large majority of the time and its hard for people to abusive without also boosting other players.

[Djriff]

No offense but it sounds like you want people to have hand outs in the game even if they fail to meet the mark. Mythic + is suppose to be difficult and atm there's not a whole lot of incentive for a casual to race to the timer if they can get loot regardless. Sure they deplete their key, but what does that matter at +8, +10? It ruins mythic + as a progression system as they really have nothing to work for past +10 which you can just slog your way through if you're not worried about the timer. No loot for not beating the timer would make it so they have something that is challenging each week, a new goal to strive for and not something they just mindlessly do every week to get loot. There should be some sort of risk vs reward other than a repair bill. Key depletion isn't enough IMO.

I'm hoping Karazhan is at least somewhat difficult but from feedback I've seen from PTR, 840 players that have a decent amount of coordination skill will be able to pug it.

You know usually the first boss is a push over, and I felt that way about Nyth until I pugged it on heroic. Now my guild has no struggles with it, we kill it very easily because everyone knows what they're doing, etc etc. Several pugs on the other hand struggle to meet the DPS requirement despite being at an ilvl that's at or above what's recommended. This isn't just one group either, this across 5-6 different groups I've been in and it just baffled me. I didn't even know the boss had an enrage.