Havoc in Legion: 7.2.5 Guide

[Deleted]

I don't find myself that inactive when playing DB honestly, i'd imagine even less so with legendary ring giving more fury.


Edit: I'm curious, will the new stat potions be better than old war for us?

1. New potion will be significantly worse than Old War, but not terrible (per use ~1,5 Million damage by the new potion vs. 2,5+ million for Old War).

2. There are significant downtimes using DB, even with the legendary ring (I got it). You have about 33 APM with DB, which puts the idle time at about 15-25 seconds for a 1 minute window (depending on ahste Levels and Meta-use). For me, that is nearly unbearable, but unfortunately the DPS difference compared to Prepared gets too big with better gear for me to justify playing Prepared at the moment.

I am not saying I actually wait for half the fight, I am saying it FEELS that way.

Well, it is at least 1/3 of the time waiting for something to press. So your feeling is not that far off

[mitre27]

1. New potion will be significantly worse than Old War, but not terrible (per use ~1,5 Million damage by the new potion vs. 2,5+ million for Old War).

2. There are significant downtimes using DB, even with the legendary ring (I got it). You have about 33 APM with DB, which puts the idle time at about 15-25 seconds for a 1 minute window (depending on ahste Levels and Meta-use). For me, that is nearly unbearable, but unfortunately the DPS difference compared to Prepared gets too big with better gear for me to justify playing Prepared at the moment.


Well, it is at least 1/3 of the time waiting for something to press. So your feeling is not that far off

Odd i don't really feel like i have much downtime playing with DB, maybe it's because i'm spamming chaos strike even when it can't actually cast lol.

Also i'm a bit salty that new potion will suck.

[Deleted]

1. New potion will be significantly worse than Old War, but not terrible (per use ~1,5 Million damage by the new potion vs. 2,5+ million for Old War).

2. There are significant downtimes using DB, even with the legendary ring (I got it). You have about 33 APM with DB, which puts the idle time at about 15-25 seconds for a 1 minute window (depending on ahste Levels and Meta-use). For me, that is nearly unbearable, but unfortunately the DPS difference compared to Prepared gets too big with better gear for me to justify playing Prepared at the moment.


Well, it is at least 1/3 of the time waiting for something to press. So your feeling is not that far off

Not sure how you're playing but from what I've experienced by also having the ring is that there's almost no downtime. Baaically by the time I'm done spamming my chaos strikes to empty the fury bar 1 set of hits refills it due to the stacked up fury. I'm actually having problems weaving in the other skills due to the ammount of fury generation. Meanwhile prepared feels so wrong due to the need to pointlesly spam my generator. But ultimately I think this is a matter of prefference and i preffer playing around the gcd with db.

[neck deep]

Also i'm a bit salty that new potion will suck.

not sure it'll suck, really. there are situations now that prepotting with a minute long(is this real?) 10ish% agility increase will be better than old war. especially in aoe. i'd probably use these on ilgynoth, maybe dragons if you stack them, and i'm sure theyre much more useful for higher grift trash pulls where we'd just rather have the raw stats for aoe. especially with their cost in relation to old war, i'll spam the shit out of these in mythic plus, compared to current old war costs

[Deleted]

Not sure how you're playing but from what I've experienced by also having the ring is that there's almost no downtime. Baaically by the time I'm done spamming my chaos strikes to empty the fury bar 1 set of hits refills it due to the stacked up fury. I'm actually having problems weaving in the other skills due to the ammount of fury generation. Meanwhile prepared feels so wrong due to the need to pointlesly spam my generator. But ultimately I think this is a matter of prefference and i preffer playing around the gcd with db.

It is not an "experience", it is what simulations show. 33 Actions per minute on average mean about 20 seconds of idle time per Minute (the exact number depending on haste values ofc).

That may feel "okay" or "not much" to you, but it is what it is. For me it is "I want to sratch my eyes out" terrible

Odd i don't really feel like i have much downtime playing with DB, maybe it's because i'm spamming chaos strike even when it can't actually cast lol.

That's exactly what I am still doing xD

Also i'm a bit salty that new potion will suck.

I don't think it sucks. As Pleau said, the potion is really cheap compared to Old War (depending on how the prices drop this may change) and considering Old War is 5-10% of your total damage (depending on fight length), about half of that is still pretty good.

there are situations now that prepotting with a minute long(is this real?) 10ish% agility increase will be better than old war.

I doubt it. The only advantage I can see is the fact that it will last for more trash packs in M+ which may be more useful in some cases. On the other hand, you don't need potions in M+ anyway until you get to more than +10's and then you want the maximum amount of burst on some packs, which means Old War will still be the far better choice.

[aGit]

That may feel "okay" or "not much" to you, but it is what it is. For me it is "I want to sratch my eyes out" terrible

i understand what you mean, but to me the alternative was worse. delayed fel rushes due to demons bite global and me rushing to god knows where. also, i simmed my char and prepared is around 0.5% damage increase 373k vs 371k. the difference is negligible.

[mitre27]

not sure it'll suck, really. there are situations now that prepotting with a minute long(is this real?) 10ish% agility increase will be better than old war. especially in aoe. i'd probably use these on ilgynoth, maybe dragons if you stack them, and i'm sure theyre much more useful for higher grift trash pulls where we'd just rather have the raw stats for aoe. especially with their cost in relation to old war, i'll spam the shit out of these in mythic plus, compared to current old war costs

Honestly, just looked at the potion again, didn't notice it's 1 blood for 20 potions, not so salty now

[Rehok]

Honestly, just looked at the potion again, didn't notice it's 1 blood for 20 potions, not so salty now

Its 1 blood for 10 potions with a chance proc of extra 10 now, They obv agree it would be too easy to flood the market or something

Potion of Prolonged Power Mix a stack of 20 10 Potions of Prolonged Power at the Dalaran Alchemy Station. Alchemy. 2 sec cast. Reagents: Blood of Sargeras, Crystal Vial x 20. 10.
Potion of Prolonged Power Chance to create more than 20 10 potions. Alchemy. 2 sec cast. Reagents: Blood of Sargeras, Crystal Vial x 20. 10.

Red = Old Value, Green = New Value

[Deix-EU]

i understand what you mean, but to me the alternative was worse. delayed fel rushes due to demons bite global and me rushing to god knows where. also, i simmed my char and prepared is around 0.5% damage increase 373k vs 371k. the difference is negligible.

It's the same, you delay fel rush also with DB if you're unlucky with miss. Having to Demon's bite mandatory just before fel rush should be the average % expected miss with DB. It not happens all the time. DB is not that good only because of no GCD , well it helps but this is not the main reason. It's the ratio "fury generated PER No GCD" which increases a bit with haste but allows you to spam a bit more Chaos Strike wich aim gearing for 45% Crit + (I'm at 47% and while at 5% haste / versa, sims put Crit even higher because of Inner Demon too, so I'm still gearing Crit / Versa ... well if it drops xD).

[Deleted]

It's the same, you delay fel rush also with DB if you're unlucky with miss. Having to Demon's bite mandatory just before fel rush should be the average % expected miss with DB. It not happens all the time. DB is not that good only because of no GCD , well it helps but this is not the main reason. It's the ratio "fury generated PER No GCD" which increases a bit with haste but allows you to spam a bit more Chaos Strike wich aim gearing for 45% Crit + (I'm at 47% and while at 5% haste / versa, sims put Crit even higher because of Inner Demon too, so I'm still gearing Crit / Versa ... well if it drops xD).

My character is at 49% crit 11% haste and 10% versa. I now understand why you find db slow and have downtimes. Your haste is simply not enough. What happens for me is autoattacks happen during chaos/annihilation spams and stack fury in the background, i'm guessing in higher ammounts due to the double haste level. I think the stat ratio should favour haste over versa albeit very slightly for db gameplay.

[Deix-EU]

My character is at 49% crit 11% haste and 10% versa. I now understand why you find db slow and have downtimes. Your haste is simply not enough. What happens for me is autoattacks happen during chaos/annihilation spams and stack fury in the background, i'm guessing in higher ammounts due to the double haste level. I think the stat ratio should favour haste over versa albeit very slightly for db gameplay.

Strangely enough not in Sim, this benefits more the gameplay feeling but Crit + Versa benefit more the DPS over the time.

[mitre27]

Its 1 blood for 10 potions with a chance proc of extra 10 now, They obv agree it would be too easy to flood the market or something

Potion of Prolonged Power Mix a stack of 20 10 Potions of Prolonged Power at the Dalaran Alchemy Station. Alchemy. 2 sec cast. Reagents: Blood of Sargeras, Crystal Vial x 20. 10.
Potion of Prolonged Power Chance to create more than 20 10 potions. Alchemy. 2 sec cast. Reagents: Blood of Sargeras, Crystal Vial x 20. 10.

Red = Old Value, Green = New Value

That's shit, if the potion is weaker who cares if the market is flooded, i doubt they will fetch much anyway, like 5g each i bet.

[Restitution]

Where/What is the best place to try and get TG relics? I am currently using 3x CS relics due to 0 luck getting any TG ones. I have gone through the loot tables but only see one boss that had it listed. I haven't seen really any WQ in weeks that offered a TG relic.

[Rombeezy]

Hola! I was wondering what you guys are pulling on normal Urs. I'm ilvl 861 and stacking mostly Crit and Haste. I finished at around 320k. I'm wondering if I need to drop a little haste and add versatility. I play the single target spec using DB and CB. Thanks for any input guys!

[Deix-EU]

Hola! I was wondering what you guys are pulling on normal Urs. I'm ilvl 861 and stacking mostly Crit and Haste. I finished at around 320k. I'm wondering if I need to drop a little haste and add versatility. I play the single target spec using DB and CB. Thanks for any input guys!

It depends of lot of things but it's kind of great for this ilvl (who is btw above average ones no matter what we think).

[Rombeezy]

The rogue in my guild makes me feel weak lol. I know certain classes will always out perform others but I feel like we aren't competitive enough. I report back with more information when I get home today. Make sure I'm doing absolutely everything I can to optimize my damage. I have read a few different guides but sometimes actually interacting with others seems better. Thanks!

[Deix-EU]

Well, I reached the great points with finally usefull gear to come I guess (870 ilvl):

Scale Factors 9.55 7.70 7.55 7.52 5.86
Agi > Mastery ~= Vers ~= Crit > Haste

[Rombeezy]

Damn so focusing on haste is bad?

[neck deep]

ptr update today statted the items from trial of valor. helya fel relic is eye beam.. odyn has crit vers bracers. guarm has crit vers cloak. high crit/haste boots from guarm too. 885 mythic ilvl. trinket from guarm is agility and a random stat roll like world quest trinkets. pray for a crit roll d:^)))))))

[Draekan]

Just got Achor, The Eternal Hunger from Normal Xavius today
I know I should be happy, it's also my second legendary (I already had Anger of The Half Giants), and some people in my raid don't even have 1 legendary. But I can't help feel disappointed that I didn't pick up the bracers.