New 7.1 Shadow notes.

[Deleted]

Can you explain this? I'm not really understanding how a 10% difference on spells or just overall damage would change based on gear, 10% is still 10% right?

Sure.

SP	MB	SF	Damage 	Difference
1000	300%	20%	3600	
	275%	30%	3575	25
2000	300%	20%	7200	
	275%	30%	7150	50
3000	300%	20%	10800	
	275%	30%	10725	75
4000	300%	20%	14400	
	275%	30%	14300	100
5000	300%	20%	18000	
	275%	30%	17875	125
6000	300%	20%	21600	
	275%	30%	21450	150

The % is the damage coefficient.

[Khorneflake]

There arent so many good shadows out there. But yeah ...balancing for the .1 % is the way to go. Now others who didnt grind and raid mythic are nerfed by a lot. But whatever, it's Blizzard. They arent able to balance shit anyways. No DH buffs, too.

This, people who don't even raid high tier content and not seeing the sheer amount of damage we lack for 80% of the fight (which is far more important for dealing with adds etc), just seeing a good geared SP rofl stomp their LFR and screaming "OP".

It's just blows my mind that after CoP in WoD we get an amazingly fun talent, and people are complaining that they are stuck with it. You were stuck with CoP last expac and it was shit, don't cry about this and ruin one of the most exciting abilities in the game.

The whole class is PERFECT the way it is, it plays beautifully and S2M provides some of the most frantic and exciting gameplay. Sure it will need nerfs in time as the haste stacks up but why not just deal with it in the same way they did fire mage? Nerf our haste scaling and give us a flat haste percentage, boom problem solved.

Next you've got people screaming that it's bad in dungeons and we never get voidform in world content.... this is all totally untrue. World bosses? You have plenty of time for it same with Wardens quests, no one is stopping you from taking LoTV etc, by the time we hit nighthold outdoor mobs will be dead in seconds and none of it will matter.

Dungeons? Are people just expecting to spam mindsear now and do decent aoe? Get dots on 3-4 targets and mind sear, pop VF and rotate VB, EASILY competing on strong trash packs. Depending on the buffs applied in keystones how about arranging a boss pull shortly after a trash pack when you pop S2M? start the boss on 20-30 stacks and let rip, oh no a 5 sec death penatly... who cares.

[mrbeermeister]

Sure.

SP	MB	SF	Damage 	Difference
1000	300%	20%	3600	
	275%	30%	3575	25
2000	300%	20%	7200	
	275%	30%	7150	50
3000	300%	20%	10800	
	275%	30%	10725	75
4000	300%	20%	14400	
	275%	30%	14300	100
5000	300%	20%	18000	
	275%	30%	17875	125
6000	300%	20%	21600	
	275%	30%	21450	150

The % is the damage coefficient.

Oh ok so the moral of the story is because other damage increases are applied after the coefficients, the coefficients are therefore a more powerful tool. Thanks for the explanation.

[Cracked]

It's just blows my mind that after CoP in WoD we get an amazingly fun talent, and people are complaining that they are stuck with it. You were stuck with CoP last expac and it was shit, don't cry about this and ruin one of the most exciting abilities in the game.

What do you mean man, CoP in Highmaul was the best thing that happened to shadow since Dragon Soul. Then it all went to shit when you got outscaled and AS started to pull ahead.

[Prancing Minstrel]

It's just blows my mind that after CoP in WoD we get an amazingly fun talent, and people are complaining that they are stuck with it. You were stuck with CoP last expac and it was shit, don't cry about this and ruin one of the most exciting abilities in the game.

The whole class is PERFECT the way it is, it plays beautifully and S2M provides some of the most frantic and exciting gameplay.

CoP didn't kill you, S2M does every time you use it. If you're not seeing why that being the talent people feel forced to choose is much more of an issue then I'm not sure what to say. I think they should just remove it - it's ridiculously gimmicky and a nightmare to balance around when the cost is that high.

[Rumstein]

Don't forget it's also a slight buff outside VF.

[Iannis]

I dislike that Disc gets lumped into Shadow nerfs.
4% less swp = 4% swp healing nerf.. Which I know isn't much, it's just annoying.
Sorry, back to shadow priest plight...

[Kaitain]

All specs can't have strong and consistent AoE. The team wants there to be areas of strength and weakness.

My issue with this is that it feels like Blizzard thinks that sPriests niche is raids. That's not really acceptable. The endgame PvE content is Mythic+ and also Raids, so any valid argument about whether sPriests need changes needs to be valid in either situation, separately. So everyone saying they feel like the AoE is holding them back in Mythic+ is absolutely correct. In Mythic+ there are tons of mobs, in clumps, that need to be killed. There's no way around it. AoE is often a way way more efficient method of killing those packs. So for a WW monk to have the tools to quickly destroy those packs, because it's their "niche", and sPriests having no effective tools for that because their "niche" is bosses in a different instance type... ye. That sucks.

And do WW monks suck as bad on bosses as sPriests do on AoE? No, absolutely not. I'd be happy if all the classes with great AoE had their single target nerfed into the toilet. That would be totally fair, if you logically follow Blizzard's arguments.

[Gorsameth]

This, people who don't even raid high tier content and not seeing the sheer amount of damage we lack for 80% of the fight (which is far more important for dealing with adds etc), just seeing a good geared SP rofl stomp their LFR and screaming "OP".

It's just blows my mind that after CoP in WoD we get an amazingly fun talent, and people are complaining that they are stuck with it. You were stuck with CoP last expac and it was shit, don't cry about this and ruin one of the most exciting abilities in the game.

The whole class is PERFECT the way it is, it plays beautifully and S2M provides some of the most frantic and exciting gameplay. Sure it will need nerfs in time as the haste stacks up but why not just deal with it in the same way they did fire mage? Nerf our haste scaling and give us a flat haste percentage, boom problem solved.

Next you've got people screaming that it's bad in dungeons and we never get voidform in world content.... this is all totally untrue. World bosses? You have plenty of time for it same with Wardens quests, no one is stopping you from taking LoTV etc, by the time we hit nighthold outdoor mobs will be dead in seconds and none of it will matter.

Dungeons? Are people just expecting to spam mindsear now and do decent aoe? Get dots on 3-4 targets and mind sear, pop VF and rotate VB, EASILY competing on strong trash packs. Depending on the buffs applied in keystones how about arranging a boss pull shortly after a trash pack when you pop S2M? start the boss on 20-30 stacks and let rip, oh no a 5 sec death penatly... who cares.

The play in voidform is great (imo). the in/out style is fine aside from the initial rampup being to long.

What some people are not ok with is the 30-70 damage distribution. We are nigh useless outside of the StM phase. The only part of a boss encounter that matters for us is the last 90 seconds.

That is what some people are complaining about and that is why they want an alternative to StM that does roughly equivalent dps overall.

[Snackwiches]

My issue with this is that it feels like Blizzard thinks that sPriests niche is raids. That's not really acceptable. The endgame PvE content is Mythic+ and also Raids, so any valid argument about whether sPriests need changes needs to be valid in either situation, separately. So everyone saying they feel like the AoE is holding them back in Mythic+ is absolutely correct. In Mythic+ there are tons of mobs, in clumps, that need to be killed. There's no way around it. AoE is often a way way more efficient method of killing those packs. So for a WW monk to have the tools to quickly destroy those packs, because it's their "niche", and sPriests having no effective tools for that because their "niche" is bosses in a different instance type... ye. That sucks.

And do WW monks suck as bad on bosses as sPriests do on AoE? No, absolutely not. I'd be happy if all the classes with great AoE had their single target nerfed into the toilet. That would be totally fair, if you logically follow Blizzard's arguments.

That quote made me nerd laugh when I heard it. Fire Mage literally has not one single problem area.

Sadly balance doesn't work well with protected classes.

[Deleted]

Surrender to madness is cool but it should be baseline.

Making a lvl 100 talent only viable for raids and better than the two others is...I mean...even someone with no clue in gaming knows the problem. So why did Blizard still think it was okay? Are they doing garbage on purpose as a social experiment? To see how much they can get away with it without people coming to their office and kicking them in the butt?

[Valancer]

They need to make one of the 110 talents an ability that replaces void form with a different ability (some single target spell which also does aoe at the target location). That way if your raiding you can run stm for good single target dps. But if your running dungeons or questing you can switch talents and have better aoe and not having to worry about any ramp up time since void form wouldn't exist in that spec. Make the new talent cost like 25 insanity, no cooldown, or something so you built insanity and then use that spell as an insanity dump.

[Hashcrypt]

Sorry shadow....you parse above Fire Mages. Blizz will not tolerate such heresy.

[ChickenChaser]

Sorry shadow....you parse above Fire Mages. Blizz will not tolerate such heresy.

Its not that its more this..

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done
and
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e-done&fight=8

The problem is they didn't fix the problem they did exactly what people told them not to do... They just made Spriest completely Irrelevant as a Class outside STM.. so the casual trying to que a mythic+ is now going to get invited even less and the spriest who can't STM in Normal is gonna lose to tanks....

Should have capped the STM talent at 175% like they were gonna do originally at 150% and just left it that way till 7.2 Aweful change but what can you expect by Blizzard...

[Jullyx]

My issue with this is that it feels like Blizzard thinks that sPriests niche is raids. That's not really acceptable. The endgame PvE content is Mythic+ and also Raids, so any valid argument about whether sPriests need changes needs to be valid in either situation, separately. So everyone saying they feel like the AoE is holding them back in Mythic+ is absolutely correct. In Mythic+ there are tons of mobs, in clumps, that need to be killed. There's no way around it. AoE is often a way way more efficient method of killing those packs. So for a WW monk to have the tools to quickly destroy those packs, because it's their "niche", and sPriests having no effective tools for that because their "niche" is bosses in a different instance type... ye. That sucks.

And do WW monks suck as bad on bosses as sPriests do on AoE? No, absolutely not. I'd be happy if all the classes with great AoE had their single target nerfed into the toilet. That would be totally fair, if you logically follow Blizzard's arguments.

I made the same mistake of comparing myself to melee in m+. You shouldn't. Even if you do, shadow is not that bad in m+ though. In extreme zerg fests, yeah, shadow is bad, but mythic+ isn't about that most of the time.

- - - Updated - - -

. They just made Spriest completely Irrelevant as a Class outside STM.. so the casual trying to que a mythic+ is now going to get invited even less and the spriest who can't STM in Normal is gonna lose to tanks....

I didn't plan on raiding and got asked to do Nythendra mythic. I heard about MCs an decided to go LotV for the first kill since I had no idea what was gonna happen. Still topped with 320k dps. It's irrelevant compared to StM, but still not aweful.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

I'm surprised S2M made it out of Beta let alone being untouched by 7.1. The disparity between a Spriest with and without S2M is huge and yet they're fine with putting it on the back burner for what will be three raids while solving nothing in the mean time.

I'm going to guess the whole 'shortly after 7.1' in regards to when they do get around to work on the level 100 talents really means a week before Nighthold opens.

[Deleted]

Sure.

SP	MB	SF	Damage 	Difference
1000	300%	20%	3600	
	275%	30%	3575	25
2000	300%	20%	7200	
	275%	30%	7150	50
3000	300%	20%	10800	
	275%	30%	10725	75
4000	300%	20%	14400	
	275%	30%	14300	100
5000	300%	20%	18000	
	275%	30%	17875	125
6000	300%	20%	21600	
	275%	30%	21450	150

The % is the damage coefficient.

This does however not affect the scaling. the difference gets bigger, but so does the basevalue (the difference is always about 0.7% Damage, no matter the spell power value)

Meaning that they could have also reduced Mindblast Damage by 0.7% and the result would have been the exact same

[Clrg]

It's already confirmed to be misleading datamining. Shadow is not getting a nerf, at least in this ptr build.

source on this?

[Dubalazi]

source on this?

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...38319387238400

[Djriff]

This, people who don't even raid high tier content and not seeing the sheer amount of damage we lack for 80% of the fight (which is far more important for dealing with adds etc), just seeing a good geared SP rofl stomp their LFR and screaming "OP".

It's just blows my mind that after CoP in WoD we get an amazingly fun talent, and people are complaining that they are stuck with it. You were stuck with CoP last expac and it was shit, don't cry about this and ruin one of the most exciting abilities in the game.

The ability itself isn't OP, it's the combination of ToF and Mass Hysteria that makes it straight up mandatory. Seriously MH is like 70% of the problem, not StM.

The whole class is PERFECT the way it is, it plays beautifully and S2M provides some of the most frantic and exciting gameplay. Sure it will need nerfs in time as the haste stacks up but why not just deal with it in the same way they did fire mage? Nerf our haste scaling and give us a flat haste percentage, boom problem solved.

Yeah...that definitely wouldn't work and we would be right back here come The Nighthold.

Next you've got people screaming that it's bad in dungeons and we never get voidform in world content.... this is all totally untrue. World bosses? You have plenty of time for it same with Wardens quests, no one is stopping you from taking LoTV etc, by the time we hit nighthold outdoor mobs will be dead in seconds and none of it will matter.

We do get VF in content like bosses and elites, sure that's easy. For stuff that only lives for 8 seconds you get VF right as it dies, which makes VF pretty useless. Did you already block out the leveling experience of shadow?

Dungeons? Are people just expecting to spam mindsear now and do decent aoe? Get dots on 3-4 targets and mind sear, pop VF and rotate VB, EASILY competing on strong trash packs. Depending on the buffs applied in keystones how about arranging a boss pull shortly after a trash pack when you pop S2M? start the boss on 20-30 stacks and let rip, oh no a 5 sec death penatly... who cares.

No, people want to be able to do burst aoe like every other class can. We want a decent aoe talent like affliction has where it's a solid choice for aoe vs ST. Any kind of choice really because let's be real Shadow Crash is a joke. Also the 5 second penalty for StM death was fixed.