Arcane Mage? WTF Blizzard

[Deleted]

So Celestalon said it is intended as a "significant buff". There has to be a playstyle that they are balancing around and that we are overlooking.

[Deleted]

This is the perfect proof that Blizzard is managed by total retards, so much is 100% certain. Nerfing the already worst spec, while deliberately leaving many others blatantly overpowered, instead they waste time buffing the universally hated Frost spec no one likes anyway.
It can be said with certainty now that they clearly have malicious intentions regarding gameplay in this expansion, what a disrepectful steaming dogshit company.

It's a shame you can't like a post on MMO-Champion.

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So Celestalon said it is intended as a "significant buff". There has to be a playstyle that they are balancing around and that we are overlooking.

They're probably looking at a (post burst) x4 AB -> AM -> Barrage repeat playstyle. Which is not how the spec functions in a viable scenario.

[Deleted]

Blizzard should give arcane prismatic crystal back, but make it baseline so we can still keep the same talents

It would be useless, you could only fit 5 blasts into one crystal. Face it, the entire spec is mechanically unplayable, quickening is not viable.
The spec was nearly perfect in MoP, it was still fine in WoD due to the draenor perks, but it's completely unplayable in group content in legion.

If your RL complains why you stopped dps, just tell him that you ran OOM and to go fuck himself, it's what I'm gonna do if he dares.

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So Celestalon said it is intended as a "significant buff". There has to be a playstyle that they are balancing around and that we are overlooking.

No, they're now blatantly lying, wouldn't even be the first time either. Open your eyes.

[Bioreducto]

I would also be cool if they changed haste so that not only does it increase our cast speed but also reduces the cool down of evocation. For every 1% haste you have evocations cool down is reduced by 1 second. So our conserve phase isn't as long because I hate how arcanes second best secondary stat is critical strike since our class doesn't do anything special with it. It is just complete rng.

[Puri]

So Celestalon said it is intended as a "significant buff". There has to be a playstyle that they are balancing around and that we are overlooking.

I am not sure if this is some kind of joke? They are increasing our single target damage by 15%, but give it 25% more mana cost. It should be fairly obvious that this is a nerf for a class that is limited by mana.
But moreso, arcane explosion (that contributes to more than 50% of our damage in m+ dungeons) is only nerfed by higher mana cost and gets nothing to compensate for that.
How can someone seriously ask for "evidence" that it is no nerf?

[Vorpalspork]

There is no way that Blizzard could see these changes as a buff. 25% increase in mana cost? That is a huge nerf making the spec unplayable at lower mastery levels and just awful even at higher levels.

[GT4]

If you want to discuss this properly, please start by using proper numbers. Multiple people here talk about a "25% increase in mana cost" which is simply false.

Mana cost increases by ...
0% at 0 charges
12.5% at 1 charge
16.67% at 2 charges
18.75% at 3 charges
20% at 4 charges

Having said that, if this was meant as a significant buff overall, there's something wrong here.

[Keulenkommando]

What you have to appreciate is that saying "blizzard doesn't know what they're doing" is a shorthand for them ignoring all the problems arcane mages face (Link1, Link2 etc.). Also, you do "decent" damage in dungeons, but you have to remember that bursting to 0 -> evo -> bursting to 0 is the absolute maximum DPS an arcane mage can do. Try going up against a good feral/arms/shadow/fire - their sustain is higher than your burst.

The biggest problem we face right now is that our burst DPS (cooldowns OR high quickening) is not high enough to compensate for low conserve damage. Or quite generally that our damage outside of high quickening is atrocious.

Problem : Burnphase DPS is barley higher than sustained DPS of other clases. Burnphase lasts way to long. (Potentially endless with better gear)
Problem : Quickening feels mandatory and makes the playstile extremly dependent on preplanning and Boss Mechanics.

Solution : Remove Quickening and replace it with something more in line with "Arcan Orb" and "Overpowered". Reduce AB casttime from 2.2 to 1.8 or lower to make the spec more fluid. That shortens the Burnphase and increases Burnphase DPS. We can squeeze more ABs into our Arcane Power window. On the same time it makes dropping and regaining Arcane Charges easier and gives us more Missile Progs that help us with the currently lacking singletarget DPS. It lets us spend more time in conserve Phase which is curently barely exsistent.

That fixes the mechanic as far as possible without touching the mess that is our Mastery. And then buff or nerf AB dmg to get Arcane back in line with the other specs.

[Vorpalspork]

If you want to discuss this properly, please start by using proper numbers. Multiple people here talk about a "25% increase in mana cost" which is simply false.

Mana cost increases by ...
0% at 0 charges
12.5% at 1 charge
16.67% at 2 charges
18.75% at 3 charges
20% at 4 charges

Having said that, if this was meant as a significant buff overall, there's something wrong here.

I'm actually not sure how this works, then. The notes say costs 125% per arcane charge, not 20% at 4 charges. I'm just unclear on how the mana math actually plays out.

[unbound]

Look on the bright side, at least you aren't Ele Shaman...bottom tier with absolutely no adjustments. Mages got a lot of attention, even if it wasn't as good as it should have been.

[Keulenkommando]

I'm actually not sure how this works, then. The notes say costs 125% per arcane charge, not 20% at 4 charges. I'm just unclear on how the mana math actually plays out.

It says its increased by 125% instead of 100%.

Previously : 100% + 4*100% = 500%
Now : 100% + 4*125% = 600%

Thats 20% more. Not 25% more. But still significant.

[GT4]

I'm actually not sure how this works, then. The notes say costs 125% per arcane charge, not 20% at 4 charges. I'm just unclear on how the mana math actually plays out.

Previous cost at 4 charges: 100% + 100% * 4 = 500%

Cost at 4 charges after the change: 100% + 125% * 4 = 600%

Ratio: 600% / 500% = 120%

Additional Cost: 120% - 100% = 20%

[Kuni Zyrekai]

No, they're now blatantly lying, wouldn't even be the first time either. Open your eyes.

Produce math, or shut up.

[Deleted]

If you want to discuss this properly, please start by using proper numbers. Multiple people here talk about a "25% increase in mana cost" which is simply false.

Mana cost increases by ...
0% at 0 charges
12.5% at 1 charge
16.67% at 2 charges
18.75% at 3 charges
20% at 4 charges

Having said that, if this was meant as a significant buff overall, there's something wrong here.

You're misleading there.

Old...
33000 - 0%
66000 - 100%
99000 - 200%
132000 - 300%
165000 - 400%
1100k / 165k = 6.66666 casts to oom

New...
33000 - 0%
74250 - 125%
115500 - 250%
156750 - 375%
198000 - 500%
1100k / 198k = 5.55555 casts to oom

It's highly unacceptable either way. A mana cost reduction of 25% would be more appropriate, then we would have...
33000 - 0%
57750 - 75%
82500 - 150%
107250 - 225%
132000 - 300%

- Also change Arcane Blast cast time from 2.25 back to 2.0 sec.
- Fix the Arcane pet despawn issues and make it immune to enemy damage.
- Make Arcane Missiles refresh it's proc duration back to 20 when casting a Missile.
- Increase Quickening to 10 sec duration.
- Change the Presence of Mind talent to instead have the next 2 casts of Arcane Barrage not dump any changes.
- Remove the mana unspent restriction from Words of Power.
- Replace the Erosion talent with Prismatic Crystal, which then should always have the same duration as Arcane Power, modified by the appropriate artifact trait.

[Snackwiches]

Look on the bright side, at least you aren't Ele Shaman...bottom tier with absolutely no adjustments. Mages got a lot of attention, even if it wasn't as good as it should have been.

How many expansions is it going to take for you people to stop trying to make Elemental Shaman work? For all the whining, jokes, etc classes in WoW get it is pretty obvious that they genuinely do not give a shit about that spec whatsoever, however this has been the case for so long that you need to drop righteous indignation and just play a real spec.

[Deleted]

How many expansions is it going to take for you people to stop trying to make Elemental Shaman work? For all the whining, jokes, etc classes in WoW get it is pretty obvious that they genuinely do not give a shit about that spec whatsoever, however this has been the case for so long that you need to drop righteous indignation and just play a real spec.

Enhancement isn't a real spec, it's just the spec Blizz loves the most, along with Fire and MM.

[gallamann]

This is an overall nerf. Don't get me wrong it is a small nerf (maybe 5% if you already have 40%+ mastery). However, nerfing a spec that is already pretty bad isn't a good thing at all. Combine that with the fact that blizzard refuses to adjust fire mages and it becomes a shitshow.

Why do you think Fire mages need an adjust? Outside of 10 second combust windows with RoP, I'd say fire has similar problems to arcane, shitastic sustain.

Once combust is cooling, you are down to fireball and hoping they crit for a period because Fire Blast, Flame On, Phoenix Flame are on cool too, then when you are nearing the next Combust you are also ensuring Fire Blast is always near 2nd stack, Flame on is ready and 2 stacks of PF. Best case is you get a fireball crit, into another for HS and then FB/Pyro chain. Even at 64% crit (paper doll) I still see streaks of 3-5 fireball casts w/o a crit, you are truly doing shit damage when that happens.

[Keulenkommando]

You're misleading there.

Old...
33000 - 0%
66000 - 100%
99000 - 200%
132000 - 300%
165000 - 400%
1100k / 165k = 6.66666 casts to oom

New...
33000 - 0%
74250 - 125%
115500 - 250%
156750 - 375%
198000 - 500%
1100k / 198k = 5.55555 casts to oom

It's highly unacceptable either way. A mana cost reduction of 25% would be more appropriate, then we would have...
33000 - 0%
57750 - 75%
82500 - 150%
107250 - 225%
132000 - 300%

- Also change Arcane Blast cast time from 2.25 back to 2.0 sec.
- Fix the Arcane pet despawn issues and make it immune to enemy damage.
- Make Arcane Missiles refresh it's proc duration back to 20 when casting a Missile.
- Increase Quickening to 10 sec duration.
- Change the Presence of Mind talent to instead have the next 2 casts of Arcane Barrage not dump any changes.
- Remove the mana unspent restriction from Words of Power.
- Replace the Erosion talent with Prismatic Crystal, which then should always have the same duration as Arcane Power, modified by the appropriate artifact trait.

You forget that we dont have 1100k Mana. Its more like 1500k+ due to Mastery. Then factor in that Mana regs while we cast and we get AM progs for free that also let us reg mana while it lasts. So its a lot more casts untill we go oom.

Reducing the Mana cost of AB would essentially let us burn => Evo => burn => Evo => burn ... non stop. Which is acutally dump because we would never use ABarr at all and our Burn DPS would be our sustained DPS. That not a fun gameplay.

[GT4]

You're misleading there.

Old...
33000 - 0%
66000 - 100%
99000 - 200%
132000 - 300%
165000 - 400%
1100k / 165k = 6.66666 casts to oom

New...
33000 - 0%
74250 - 125%
115500 - 250%
156750 - 375%
198000 - 500%
1100k / 198k = 5.55555 casts to oom

Sorry for misleading you with factually correct information that's actually supported by what you're posting just after accusing me of being misleading. 20% higher mana cost means you get in 1 / 1.2 = 0.83... as many casts which happens to be the exact same 5.5... / 6.6... = 0.83... you're showing. /facepalm

It's highly unacceptable either way. A mana cost reduction of 25% would be more appropriate, then we would have...
33000 - 0%
57750 - 75%
82500 - 150%
107250 - 225%
132000 - 300%

- Also change Arcane Blast cast time from 2.25 back to 2.0 sec.
- Fix the Arcane pet despawn issues and make it immune to enemy damage.
- Make Arcane Missiles refresh it's proc duration back to 20 when casting a Missile.
- Increase Quickening to 10 sec duration.
- Change the Presence of Mind talent to instead have the next 2 casts of Arcane Barrage not dump any changes.
- Remove the mana unspent restriction from Words of Power.
- Replace the Erosion talent with Prismatic Crystal, which then should always have the same duration as Arcane Power, modified by the appropriate artifact trait.

How to make Arcane the most broken spec in the history of Legion - a step by step guide by Lei Shi.

[Deleted]

Reducing the Mana cost of AB would essentially let us burn => Evo => burn => Evo => burn ... non stop. Which is acutally dump because we would never use ABarr at all and our Burn DPS would be our sustained DPS. That not a fun gameplay.

Even then we could barely compete with many other classes and specs, MM hunter and shadow priest sustained dps is higher than even Arcane's highest "burst". We had that gameplay in Cata, it wasn't even competetive for anything other than Spine.