Thread: No fury buffs?

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  1. #21
    Mechagnome kojinshugi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaith View Post
    6% dmg won't fix the real issues with fury and as usual the devs won't fix it.
    It's an 8% buff and Fury will be fine.

    Parses are skewed because Arms was better at launch so top players are playing Arms.

    Fury is already competitive, with another 8% it will be good. Stack haste and l2p.

    "Real issues" probably stands for "I think 30% while enraged means 30% always", which is going down to 20% while we keep our huge HP pool.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by kojinshugi View Post
    It's an 8% buff and Fury will be fine.

    Parses are skewed because Arms was better at launch so top players are playing Arms.

    Fury is already competitive, with another 8% it will be good. Stack haste and l2p.

    "Real issues" probably stands for "I think 30% while enraged means 30% always", which is going down to 20% while we keep our huge HP pool.
    Fury isn't already competitive, at all. Parses aren't that skewed since there is a pretty good deal of fury parses already.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellianar View Post
    Fury isn't already competitive, at all. Parses aren't that skewed since there is a pretty good deal of fury parses already.
    They are only skewed on mythic Cenarius and Xavius because aparrently mythic guilds just don't bother bringing fury warriors, frost dk, or MM hunters to those fights.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by kojinshugi View Post
    It's an 8% buff and Fury will be fine.

    Parses are skewed because Arms was better at launch so top players are playing Arms.

    Fury is already competitive, with another 8% it will be good. Stack haste and l2p.

    "Real issues" probably stands for "I think 30% while enraged means 30% always", which is going down to 20% while we keep our huge HP pool.
    "real issues" as in shitty procs from artifact traits, furious slash dealing less than autoattack dmg, juggernaut in general and more things.

    If it was only the dmg taken increase i could live with it but it's far from that.

  5. #25
    Whelp, glad I was working on my side mage as I waited for these "buffs". I was so excited when we were mentioned in the Dev Q&A and now I can tell it was all a joke.

  6. #26
    Pit Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    Okay sure. Show me an Affliction warlock on Ursoc heroic pulling 400K dps like fury.

    Oh wait. You can't.

    Edit : Just saying fury might have some other issues, but just because some classes can pull absurd amounts of damage (shadow priests, arms, retri) doesn't mean fury needs a big buff. Other specs are way worse off

    If the overperformers are getting nerfed (and shadowpriests are getting nerfed with 7.1) then fury looks way better than people might think.
    Again, cherry picking for your own useless and ignorant argument.

    No one here is saying that Fury is the only class that needs buffs. But in case you're incapable of reading, this is the warrior forums. If you want to hear about Affliction needing buffs then head over to the Warlock forums.

    And for the record, Arms isn't exactly pulling absurd amounts of damage any more. With legendaries and fantastic RNG sure, but on average it's definitely no where close to the best spec in the game.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbiter View Post
    Again, cherry picking for your own useless and ignorant argument.

    No one here is saying that Fury is the only class that needs buffs. But in case you're incapable of reading, this is the warrior forums. If you want to hear about Affliction needing buffs then head over to the Warlock forums.

    And for the record, Arms isn't exactly pulling absurd amounts of damage any more. With legendaries and fantastic RNG sure, but on average it's definitely no where close to the best spec in the game.
    no reason to get insulting.

    I am out.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    no reason to get insulting.

    I am out.
    Good thing you are... you posted 1 log and claimed we don't need buff...

    LOL

    Look at the overall on all boss you'll see that fury with 1-2 classes are bottom down....

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellianar View Post
    Yeah let's compare us to affli the AoE spec of warlocks that is parsing dead last on mythic ursoc, bet you chose them totally per chance (That's without considering nobody plays warlocks and on top of that the only masochists left sure as hell ain't playing affliction)

    No one is getting nerfed but SP in 7.1

    But yeah, extremes on one specific boss are really relevant to the state of class balancing.

    If you wanna go that way, show me a 450k dps parse on ursoc ? Oh wait you can't, we're trash tier. (that's your logic, not mine)
    Actually Fire Mage is also getting their ST nerfed 4-6%

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    People really think fury does need a buff?

    http://simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19H.html
    Arms, a class that uses one two hander should never do more damage than fury, a class that uses two two handers.

    Also, lolsims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kojinshugi View Post
    It's an 8% buff and Fury will be fine.

    Parses are skewed because Arms was better at launch so top players are playing Arms.

    Fury is already competitive, with another 8% it will be good. Stack haste and l2p.

    "Real issues" probably stands for "I think 30% while enraged means 30% always", which is going down to 20% while we keep our huge HP pool.
    I won't consider myself amazing, but I'd consider myself good enough to be "competitive" as far as parses

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...3733956/latest

    However competitive? With what? The arms warrior is doing the exact same dps as me, with worse parses. Why should I have to play twice as good, just to do the damage other classes do?

    On my mythic Nyth kill a 70% parse from enhance was equal to my 90% parse.

    And for the record, the enrage damage is not a real issue. It never affected anything. I had the fewest deaths on our mythic pulls. But clearly, fury is broken and dies too easily.
    I level warriors, I have 48 max level warriors.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by T1berius View Post
    fury is not doing better with encreased ilvl. fury is doing slightly better with the bis legendaries and with more haste gear but pure ilvl alone does not make fury better.

    i.e. my 875 set of gear with 20% haste is 40k dps lower than my 864 gear with 28% haste
    How much haste do you need as Fury? Wow that's a lot of haste. I'm an Arms Warrior with 13% haste and 16% crit and 80% mastery and 5% verse. Waiting on some really good pieces to drop without crit, but it's so mind blowing that nearly every fucking piece has crit on it. Ah I vented. Anyways, what's the soft and hardcaps for haste on Fury?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

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    True, Simcraft is not perfect. Demonology data is very skewed aswell. Loot is hard to get, but it will come eventually

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    All good players play Arms. It sadly works this way. It's the same with Fire mages and arcane/frost
    1) Just because you can get a good parse with Fury doesn't mean that it's as competitive as others.
    2) The issue is that the Fury profile is being continually inflated, despite my repeated fixing it.
    3) That's not completely true, and even if it were, it's still easy to (correctly) assess the specs performances.

    Fury is is low, period. Whether you believe it or not is your choice, but personal performance, stats, and (correct) sims all correlate this, not to mention Blizzard admitting as much twice now. It also has some legitimate mechanical concerns, largely centered around Execute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DesMephisto View Post
    Arms, a class that uses one two hander should never do more damage than fury, a class that uses two two handers.
    That's a ridiculous statement. If you can't at least be logical and objective, don't enter a conversation on balance. Act like an adult.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    1) Just because you can get a good parse with Fury doesn't mean that it's as competitive as others.
    2) The issue is that the Fury profile is being continually inflated, despite my repeated fixing it.
    3) That's not completely true, and even if it were, it's still easy to (correctly) assess the specs performances.

    Fury is is low, period. Whether you believe it or not is your choice, but personal performance, stats, and (correct) sims all correlate this, not to mention Blizzard admitting as much twice now. It also has some legitimate mechanical concerns, largely centered around Execute.

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    That's a ridiculous statement. If you can't at least be logical and objective, don't enter a conversation on balance.
    Hey Arch, with the new buffs to Fury, do you think they'll do better now or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesMephisto View Post
    Arms, a class that uses one two hander should never do more damage than fury, a class that uses two two handers.

    Also, lolsims.
    I thought like that five years ago, and now I don't think like that - at least since the first major patch that fixed Arms in Cataclysm. I played Arms in Vanilla and a little in BC and in WotLK (mostly PvPing). But in Cata things changed and I began to love Arms. I wasn't here for Panda and most of WoD.

    Anyways, my philosophy on Arms vs. Fury in pure fantasy role is that, a person who can wield oversized weapons in each hand is hella strong, but that strength alone isn't going to make him dish out the damage they should because they're wielding a big weapon in one hand, which will reduce their hit chance and lowers their strength and speed. Obviously your weight including your gear and those two big weapons will reduce your defenses. The good side on this is that you'll swing faster, attack faster and go ape-shit on things.

    As for Arms, holding a single big weapon in both hands will give you stronger accuracy, more powerful blows (Colossus Smash/Shattered Defenses/FR all makes sense) and higher senses or better defenses. I mean, try it in real life. You don't need real weapons for it, but a large weapon (sword in this case) and put them in each hand and see for yourself.

    Anyways, this is pure fantasy and these are my thoughts. I'm not correcting you or anything since that is your philosophy :P

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    1) Just because you can get a good parse with Fury doesn't mean that it's as competitive as others.
    2) The issue is that the Fury profile is being continually inflated, despite my repeated fixing it.
    3) That's not completely true, and even if it were, it's still easy to (correctly) assess the specs performances.

    Fury is is low, period. Whether you believe it or not is your choice, but personal performance, stats, and (correct) sims all correlate this, not to mention Blizzard admitting as much twice now. It also has some legitimate mechanical concerns, largely centered around Execute.

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    That's a ridiculous statement. If you can't at least be logical and objective, don't enter a conversation on balance. Act like an adult.
    You say its nonsensical, but the fact is, its logical. How does 1 two hander supposed to do more damage than two two handers? Its simple math.

    Arms was always the PvP build, Fury was always the PvE. They gave arms both and told fury to go fuck itself. Fury should always be on top, and always be #1 in the best gear. Its how it always has been. Its the most iconic part of the class outside of the forced two two handers thing.
    I level warriors, I have 48 max level warriors.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by DesMephisto View Post
    You say its nonsensical, but the fact is, its logical. How does 1 two hander supposed to do more damage than two two handers? Its simple math.
    With that logic does that mean that outlaw rogues should do more damage than any other rogue spec because they have a gun. and if history has taught us anything is that guns beat knives. If we go that far then obviously hunters that use guns should do more damage than hunters that use bows. I mean obviously.
    Mages and warlocks must be the best dps ever because they use magic am i right?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by DesMephisto View Post
    You say its nonsensical, but the fact is, its logical. How does 1 two hander supposed to do more damage than two two handers? Its simple math.

    Arms was always the PvP build, Fury was always the PvE. They gave arms both and told fury to go fuck itself. Fury should always be on top, and always be #1 in the best gear. Its how it always has been. Its the most iconic part of the class outside of the forced two two handers thing.
    Because it's a fantasy game that's intended to be balanced. Balance does not mean "whatever I arbitrarily decide should be better is best".

    The pathetic excuse for reasoning could just as easily be extended further:
    Fury should be better than Ret because Fury has two weapons
    Fury should be better than DK because Fury has two weapons
    Arms should be better than Rogue because it has bigger weapons
    Mage should be better than everything because it has magic pew pew.


    It's asinine. That is not, and never has been, the design intention of the game.

    Let's also ignore the fact that more of something doesn't necessarily mean better. To give a simple example: Shoot a pistol with both hands, now shoot a pistol in each hand at the same time. You'll notice a marked decrease in accuracy, which is why that "style" is reserved for Hollywood and trick shooting. This is nothing to say of the fact that using two weapons would mean less overall strength for each due to using one arm rather than two, etc, but it doesn't really matter as it quickly goes into the level of detail that simply doesn't matter for a fantasy game.

  17. #37
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by DesMephisto View Post
    You say its nonsensical, but the fact is, its logical. How does 1 two hander supposed to do more damage than two two handers? Its simple math.

    Arms was always the PvP build, Fury was always the PvE. They gave arms both and told fury to go fuck itself. Fury should always be on top, and always be #1 in the best gear. Its how it always has been. Its the most iconic part of the class outside of the forced two two handers thing.
    My mind is boggled... are you serious?

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatsujin View Post
    Hey Arch, with the new buffs to Fury, do you think they'll do better now or not?
    Obviously they'll do better. They won't do substantially better however, and will still be beat by Arms as a whole. It's about a 5% buff overall.

  19. #39
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Obviously they'll do better. They won't do substantially better however, and will still be beat by Arms as a whole. It's about a 5% buff overall.
    Do you think it's mainly because of the inate Design of Fury, it's utter lack of talent choice and Enrage being a tiny window we need to Maximize? Or do you think it's just a Numbers issue.

    I think it's honestly the first, We're a class that has an "On crit" mechanic, yet compared to DH and Fire Mages, We're the only ones trying to Mitigate not critting over getting crits.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Obviously they'll do better. They won't do substantially better however, and will still be beat by Arms as a whole. It's about a 5% buff overall.
    Arch, if 5% isn't enough, how much of a buff would be needed to put Fury on par/ahead of Arms? Basically, how big do you think the gap is atm? I love analyzing logs and sims, but given the fact that the higher end/higher skilled players are mostly Arms, and with simcraft not being as reliable this xpac as it was in previous, it seems hard to gauge how much help fury really needs in order to become the PvE king we are generally accustomed to.

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