Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deleted]

I see nothing about Nostalruis re-opening there.

What's being inferred is that, unless Blizzard announces legacy servers, Nostalrius will announce that they're either reopening their own pserver(s) or releasing their server code and data, as they have threatened to do in the past.

[Deleted]

Come to Russia and see for yourself that Russian courts are different (in practice, not in theory, in theory they obviously are protecting the law bla bla bla whatever).

The case I linked is a continuation of the case you linked.

Well, now it makes sense. You're in Russia, so expecting otherwise is futile.

They aren't. It's nonsensical to suggest this.

I have no clue what they articles you provided say, but the 2016 cases includes several labels, not just one. VK was defeated in 2014 in a final court ruling in that case.

[Pann]

There are ways around the legal bullying, and I'm sure Nostalrius is aware of it. They probably consulted with a lawyer and devised a plan. I expect Nostalrius to relaunch, and it's going to be glorious.

I highly doubt that is they are planning on relaunching Nost even if they decide to operate in a country that is not sympathetic to US copyright claims they are likely to bound by contractual obligations to Blizzard as a result of their visit to Irvine.

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They can still sue them in France you know. And placing the servers in such a country (Russia is reachable mind you) would make the game unplayable for US and EU players.

They could not sue them, for copyright infringement, in France if there is no breach of copyright happening in France.

[Deleted]

They could not sue them, for copyright infringement, in France if there is no breach of copyright happening in France.

Ahem, people. I'm getting seriously tired of the misinformation here.

The French server host terminated its service because of the prospect of Blizzard suing them. They can sue them, because there was copyright infringement.

These issues have been discussed previously in this thread.

[Deficineiron]

I highly doubt that is they are planning on relaunching Nost even if they decide to operate in a country that is not sympathetic to US copyright claims they are likely to bound by contractual obligations to Blizzard as a result of their visit to Irvine.

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They could not sue them, for copyright infringement, in France if there is no breach of copyright happening in France.

I would go further and bet they agreed not to release their source code, period. Blizzard may have agreed to not bring a case against them for the issues with the server in france earlier this year (collecting money).

[rda]

Well, now it makes sense. You're in Russia, so expecting otherwise is futile.

They aren't. It's nonsensical to suggest this.

I have no clue what they articles you provided say, but the 2016 cases includes several labels, not just one. VK was defeated in 2014 in a final court ruling in that case.

You can certainly ignore everything I said about what actually happened and why, what the decision was, what the continuation was, etc, sure. Obviously, you know better. You can't read some of the relevant pieces, because they are in Russian (and you don't know where Google Translate is), but that's probably fine.

If Nostalrius opens in Russia, Blizzard will die trying to reach them using "the law". If you have a different opinion, be my guest (but ask yourself what the heck do you base this opinion on? ...not much, so listen to those who actually have a clue about Russian "laws").

[Deleted]

If you say "Every" in that sentence I automatically realize you feel you can lie about it because you can't name names here. While I don't have time to play "Every" major Vanilla private server (did you?, really?), my original analysis stands - top ones don't accept donations. Period.

Lol you dude still bend the truth like you want it?

If Nostalrius did accept donations while hosting their server in France, I would consider that a factor in their decision to shutter the project, once confronted with governmental legal headaches - especially with all the muslim immigrants / terrorism that they are now facing (see news, etc). The government is on watch for money transfers or collections of cash to one entity.

Sorry but what doethe immigrants in EU have to do with the Nost team (who are all muricans?).....did you just put muslims, terrorism and shuting down of nost together in one sentence? Have you polished your tin foil hat today?

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The mere fact that there are Russian private WoW servers running for over a decade, means that blizzard cannot do jack to get them.

No, it means that they are such a low ball that blizzard doesnt care for them. If Blizzard wanted they could sue them in Russia too.

[Pann]

Ahem, people. I'm getting seriously tired of the misinformation here.

The French server host terminated its service because of the prospect of Blizzard suing them. They can sue them, because there was copyright infringement.

These issues have been discussed previously in this thread.

Ahem, you said that they could "...still sue them in France you know" in response someone saying "...putting servers into a country that doesn't care about laws like that." this is hypothetical situation and nothing to do with what happened with Nost. If the servers we located in another country that does not recognise US copyright claims then they cannot sue anyone in France as no breach of copyright has happened in that country.

[Deleted]

You can certainly ignore everything I said about what actually happened and why, what the decision was, what the continuation was, etc, sure. Obviously, you know better. You can't read some of the relevant pieces, because they are in Russian (and you don't know where Google Translate is), but that's probably fine.

If Nostalrius opens in Russia, Blizzard will die trying to reach them using "the law". If you have a different opinion, be my guest (but ask yourself what the heck do you base this opinion on? ...not much, so listen to those who actually have a clue about Russian "laws").

You know what, whatever. I'm wasting my time here because people apparently know everything.

Let's see how much the Nost hippies can sustain their threats.

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Ahem, you said that they could "...still sue them in France you know" in response someone saying "...putting servers into a country that doesn't care about laws like that." this is hypothetical situation and nothing to do with what happened with Nost. If the servers we located in another country that does not recognise US copyright claims then they cannot sue anyone in France as no breach of copyright has happened in that country.

The original servers were placed in France - Blizzard can still sue them for copyright infringement is France, applying French law. They can also sue them in the US, applying American law.

They can do either because copyright infringement happened in FRANCE.

And I will repeat - the conventions on copyright are literally huge, and include many countries. For the server to avoid any legal implication, it would have to be placed somewhere where it would be unplayable in the US and EU. Either way, Blizzard wins.

[rda]

No, it means that they are such a low ball that blizzard doesnt care for them. If Blizzard wanted they could sue them in Russia too.

Another dreamer.

These servers are such a lowball that their online is greater than the one of Nostalrius.

But obviously that's false, because otherwise Blizzard would have sued and they would obviously have succeeded, right? That's the logic, I suppose.

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You know what, whatever. I'm wasting my time here because people apparently know everything.

Let's see how much the Nost hippies can sustain their threats.

I don't care about "Nost hippies", but you'd do well to ask about things you only have a vague idea about instead of stating how they are for no reason.

[Pann]

I would go further and bet they agreed not to release their source code, period. Blizzard may have agreed to not bring a case against them for the issues with the server in france earlier this year (collecting money).

Agreed. I have little doubt that Blizzard have tied Nost's hands in return for not suing them and their little holiday.

[Deleted]

Another dreamer.

These servers are such a lowball that their online is greater than the one of Nostalrius.

But obviously that's false, because otherwise Blizzard would have sued and they would obviously have succeeded, right? That's the logic, I suppose.

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I don't care about "Nost hippies", but you'd do well to ask about things you only have a vague idea about instead of stating how they are for no reason.

Thing is, you don't have any idea about. Just because you live in Russia doesn't make you qualified to answer legal issues.

Jeez. If you think Russia is the safe haven of all things illegal, you're clueless. It's just that most things located there are restricted to Russia alone and, as you know, the world doesn't give crap about it.

[Pann]

The original servers were placed in France - Blizzard can still sue them for copyright infringement is France, applying French law. They can also sue them in the US, applying American law.

They can do either because copyright infringement happened in FRANCE.

And I will repeat - the conventions on copyright are literally huge, and include many countries. For the server to avoid any legal implication, it would have to be placed somewhere where it would be unplayable in the US and EU. Either way, Blizzard wins.

I know that, as I pointed out I was not talking about the original issue but addressing the hypothetical point that they could be sued for reopening in another country.

[rda]

Thing is, you don't have any idea about. Just because you live in Russia doesn't make you qualified to answer legal issues.

Jeez. If you think Russia is the safe haven of all things illegal, you're clueless. It's just that most things located there are restricted to Russia alone and, as you know, the world doesn't give crap about it.

Never said I understand the issues just because I live in Russia.

[Deleted]

I think people here over estimate the power someone like Blizzard has over this situation.

Sorry dear but YOU underestimate the us law.

If Nostalrius wants to, they can do a few things to get around Blizzards reach.

No they couldnt if they dont all want suddenly move to ecuador... Blizzard knows WHO they are and WHERE they live.

Another thing they can do is put the server in a country that doesn't give a shit about US laws. Someplace like Russia for example.

Jesus stop watching Fox - Russia has laws too....

The third option is to fight Blizzard in court. As far as I'm concerned there's no concrete proof that Nostalrius has actually broken copyright.

Sorry you cant be seriously THAT stupid can you? Nost took software they DONT created and is trademarked by blizzard and run a private server and they went as far and did it even in front of Blizzard in their HQ.

I have yet to be given a specific example of their work breaking this. If people donate a huge sum of money and go to court in Europe, there's a good chance the courts would be in favor of Nostalrius as Europe is more pro consumer than America. Think about it, you bought a game that you can no longer play anymore. You can't play Vanilla WoW anymore, as well as TBC, WOTLK, and etc.

Lol - whats next? you say its okay to download movies like Westworld for free cause its 43 years old?

Nostalrius had nearly 200,000 signatures for Blizzard to make a Vanilla server, and if they don't want to listen then what rights do they have against a private server?

fixed that number for you - plus 3/4 of that where fakes.
Blizzard has EVERY RIGHT on WOW - For example you cant sell doomhammer replicas and teach classes how to be an orc warrior without being sued by Blizzard for copyright infringement.

Seriously dude - lern some law.

[Xandrigity]

I think people here over estimate the power someone like Blizzard has over this situation. If Nostalrius wants to, they can do a few things to get around Blizzards reach.

For one, they can just open up the server and give Blizzard the finger. What's Blizzard going to do, send their ravenous army of lawyers after a server at an unknown location? For Wozniak's sake, they can't even shut down the Pirate Bay, which has everyone including Blizzard on their shit list. What chance does Blizzard have?

Another thing they can do is put the server in a country that doesn't give a shit about US laws. Someplace like Russia for example. Sure the latency will be high for us Murican's, but a small price to pay for a running server. China is also another good location. It seems the expression of copyright infringement doesn't translate very well into Mandarin.

The third option is to fight Blizzard in court. As far as I'm concerned there's no concrete proof that Nostalrius has actually broken copyright. I have yet to be given a specific example of their work breaking this. If people donate a huge sum of money and go to court in Europe, there's a good chance the courts would be in favor of Nostalrius as Europe is more pro consumer than America. Think about it, you bought a game that you can no longer play anymore. You can't play Vanilla WoW anymore, as well as TBC, WOTLK, and etc. If Blizzard refuses to offer this service for their game, then Nostalrius maybe within their right to continue to operate. What Blizzard is doing is very anti-consumer and European courts love to favor pro consumer ideals. Nostalrius has nearly 300,000 signatures for Blizzard to make a Vanilla server, and if they don't want to listen then what rights do they have against a private server?

I have no doubt they can do it. However, it's laughable to think blizzard is going to even care about threat, subtle or not.

[Deficineiron]

Agreed. I have little doubt that Blizzard have tied Nost's hands in return for not suing them and their little holiday.

to be fair, I think the nost people got a very good reception. Unless they blatantly distorted the general tone of the meeting, the people they met with (including top blizz execs) were not unsympathetic to the desire to play classic wow. Now that is only tangentially related to whether such a product would be released by blizzard or in what final form.

[Deleted]

Never said I understand the issues just because I live in Russia.

Well, you haven't provided anything else than 'come to Russia to see for yourself' - this suggests your basis is empirical.

So yeah.

[rda]

No they couldnt if they dont all want suddenly move to ecuador... Blizzard knows WHO they are and WHERE they live.

If they get to opening the new Nost, why do you assume whoever'd do this would declare their true identities?

LOL at "Jesus stop watching Fox - Russia has laws too...." - yeah, they have. Totally. It's in the way they apply them.

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Well, you haven't provided anything else than 'come to Russia to see for yourself' - this suggests your basis is empirical.

So yeah.

Google Translate the link I gave you and try looking for different cases of reaching into Russia using law - if it's all like you say, there should be plenty.

Again, I am saying it to you in the most friendly manner possible - if you think Russia is reachable using law, you have been misinformed.

[Sabever]

OK for those who have been in this thread we have 1,552 pages. People keep bringing up the legal issue. We know what Nost did was not lawful. 1) That has absolteable nothing to do with whether Blizz makes a legacy server or not, 2) a this point we don't care and if Blizz does not make the game people are going to play anyway.

Anyone who brings up copyrighght as a deterrent to Legacy does not understand that we know it is not legal and that argument actually has nothing to do wit hif Legacy servers should be made or not. From this post forward stop bringing that up. It is akin to us talking about if we like chocolate or vanilla more and you say, door.