Skovald's dialogue with Odyn. Why?

[Leodok]

He still fought us afterwards, so we don't know if there was anything that would have stopped him from killing Skovald after giving him the Aegis.

I'm pretty sure that fight wasn't part of the trial (in the lore). I mean, he almost let us go after we defeated the vrykul kings.
We fought him so we could get "our names to echo in the halls for eternity" or something. It's like a combo, claim the Aegis and get a chance to make the vrykul hear "Xxnoobzlayerxx" forever.

The dialogue to me implied that if either 1. He beat us there or 2. Did kill us, he could've walked out with the Aegis and gone about his day.

For that matter, how'd he get in there? The guardians before the entrance to the halls are killing any demon that approached

Through the use of swords and fel magic - or they just let him in, he's the goddamn God-King after all.


What I really don't get about the dungeon is that Eyir gets all mad when Alliance goes there even though Greymane saved her butt.

[ghostblade]

I'm pretty sure that fight wasn't part of the trial (in the lore). I mean, he almost let us go after we defeated the vrykul kings.
We fought him so we could get "our names to echo in the halls for eternity" or something. It's like a combo, claim the Aegis and get a chance to make the vrykul hear "Xxnoobzlayerxx" forever.



Through the use of swords and fel magic - or they just let him in, he's the goddamn God-King after all.


What I really don't get about the dungeon is that Eyir gets all mad when Alliance goes there even though Greymane saved her butt.

maybe the reason why eyir talks to both sides is because she see's a pointless honorless conflict. As she doesn't say "i know what they did in stormheim" but rather "there kind"

[Aeluron Lightsong]

If you even have to ask yourself if something in WoW is bad writing then the answer is that yes, it's just bad writing.

You could say that about anything really so I don't buy it.

[Cwimge]

Odyn already says that the Aegis, regardless of what Skovald had tried to do, is "their right". And when Odyn says "your protest comes too late" is more of an insult to Skovald, basically saying to him "you tried and ultimately failed, even after cheating, betraying everyone around you, and surrendering to the Legion for more power. And these champions you deem unworthy still beat you by completing the trials the LEGITIMATE way."

Odyn is, more or less, mocking Skovald for his inability to get the Aegis even after all he had done.

Blizzard's not that subtle. He is literally saying that had Skolvad arrived alongside us, or perhaps even just a little sooner then he did, then odyn might have given the notion more thought

[Justpassing]

It has been Aegis since he last faced a worthy opponent. Don't mind him.

...Are you proud of this?

[Bumbac]

Eh no, the keepers of ulduar and neltharion were corrupted mainly due to proximity.

Odyn on the otherhand, has been chilling in a floating fortress all this time.

He was also running in Stormheim on the ground. Nzoth is doing his magic man, I am tellin' ya.

[Dundebuns]

Odyn was duty bound to surrender the Aegis to whoever completed the trials. He doesn't want to give it to Skovald as it would lead to the destruction of Azeroth. So instead he coaches the players through the trials, and has them arrive just before Skovald, so Odyn removed the possibility of having to give the Aegis to the legion. It was underhand, but still legit.

[Al Gorefiend]

If you even have to ask yourself if something in WoW is bad writing then the answer is that yes, it's just bad writing.

It's not lord of the rings, but it isn't bad writing. Better fantasy writing than Harry Potter or game of thrones, at least. The range is massive.

[Kallor]

It's not lord of the rings, but it isn't bad writing. Better fantasy writing than Harry Potter or game of thrones, at least. The range is massive.

Not sure if trolling? There isn't a single writer in the WoW-team (or author of Warcraft books) that is even remotely close to J. K Rowling or GRRM. Sure WoW has a few great storylines, but the writing itself isn't noteworthy.

You'd definitely notice it of someone like George R. R. Martin was doing storylines for WoW - his writing is far superior to anything Blizzard has conjured up.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Not sure if trolling? There isn't a single writer in the WoW-team (or author of Warcraft books) that is even remotely close to J. K Rowling or GRRM. Sure WoW has a few great storylines, but the writing itself isn't noteworthy.

You'd definitely notice it of someone like George R. R. Martin was doing storylines for WoW - his writing is far superior to anything Blizzard has conjured up.

I don't really think at least in what we are talking about is bad writing, I just think it's pretty easy to shit on WoW. It's better then what we got in Burning Crusade. Let's also note Harry Potter focused on a few characters mostly throughout the series. WoW or rather Warcraft goes everywhere.

[Reckonize]

The dialogue to me implied that if either 1. He beat us there or 2. Did kill us, he could've walked out with the Aegis and gone about his day.

For that matter, how'd he get in there? The guardians before the entrance to the halls are killing any demon that approached

He was a Vrykul King he thought himself worthy, the arguement "killing demons that approach" would mean I could never do the Halls on my Demon Hunter, which I clear weekly. People with demonic ability appear to be excluded. I don't know if the watchers can sense that or not or what, but regardless Skovald, Warlocks and Demon Hunters are allowed to enter despite using the Fel.

[Deleted]

I think it was pretty clear that Odyn and Skovald were working together but Odyn just didn't want to get busted after Skovald lost.

That's why we kill Odyn in the new mini Raid.

[Mehrunes]

It's not lord of the rings, but it isn't bad writing. Better fantasy writing than Harry Potter or game of thrones, at least. The range is massive.

If you judged quality of writing by the amount of inconsistencies and outright retcons, then sure.

I don't really think at least in what we are talking about is bad writing, I just think it's pretty easy to shit on WoW. It's better then what we got in Burning Crusade. Let's also note Harry Potter focused on a few characters mostly throughout the series. WoW or rather Warcraft goes everywhere.

"Better than Burning Crusade" isn't exactly a high bar of storytelling. It's barely above "better than Tetris". And Warcraft goes everywhere? Sure, it has many characters (so does Harry Potter), but everything always revolves around few characters. Almost all playable racers revolve around their leaders, for example.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

"Better than Burning Crusade" isn't exactly a high bar of storytelling. It's barely above "better than Tetris". And Warcraft goes everywhere? Sure, it has many characters (so does Harry Potter), but everything always revolves around few characters. Almost all playable racers revolve around their leaders, for example.

You mostly see Harry, Ron and Hermione. That's usually the most focused, there isn't that much world building. Warcraft tends to do characters and world building. I still don't buy Warcraft being so low bar. Not to mention retcons doesn't suddenly mean bad.

[Al Gorefiend]

If you judged quality of writing by the amount of inconsistencies and outright retcons, then sure.




"Better than Burning Crusade" isn't exactly a high bar of storytelling. It's barely above "better than Tetris". And Warcraft goes everywhere? Sure, it has many characters (so does Harry Potter), but everything always revolves around few characters. Almost all playable racers revolve around their leaders, for example.

Retcons happened few and far between, because Blizzard didn't write Warcraft's lore with the mindset that the game was going to explode in popularity and demand greater attention to detail for the next decade and beyond. the story framework to an RTS only gave them so much to work with.

- - - Updated - - -

Not sure if trolling? There isn't a single writer in the WoW-team (or author of Warcraft books) that is even remotely close to J. K Rowling or GRRM. Sure WoW has a few great storylines, but the writing itself isn't noteworthy.

You'd definitely notice it of someone like George R. R. Martin was doing storylines for WoW - his writing is far superior to anything Blizzard has conjured up.

GRRM is such a fantastic writer that nobody heard of his books first published in 1996 until a TV series turned it into something people started caring about. Seriously enough with the fan-wanking. J.K. Rowling is a great writer and her book was an instant bestseller, but the range of her worldbuilding isn't what an entire team of writers developed. Better individual story-teller? Sure. Better than WoW's ENTIRE TEAM? No.

Lol, I can't wait for the day Dennis L. McKiernan's books become a TV show and everyone starts applauding how amazing of a writer he was.

[Aucald]

Retcons happened few and far between, because Blizzard didn't write Warcraft's lore with the mindset that the game was going to explode in popularity and demand greater attention to detail for the next decade and beyond. the story framework to an RTS only gave them so much to work with.

The idea of the "retcon" is often met with derision and scorn by wide cross-section of people, but I've always been of a mind to judge each as its own thing. Some retcons can be for the best, after all - one case and point that has always stuck with me is the Eredar/Draenei retcon that happened with TBC. Reworking the history of the Eredar gave us a lot more story than their original backstory, and didn't really change a whole lot of Sargeras' backstory or motivation (aside from removing the Eredar as one of the factors of his corruption). Personally, I think the Eredar's new backstory gives them more depth as befits a playable race. I also tend to think of the backstory of WoW as being told through the lenses of set perspectives - the "Chronicle" volumes are really the first compendiums of lore to be presented with a truly third-person, omniscient point of view on the Warcraft universe.

[Deleted]

I think it was pretty clear that Odyn and Skovald were working together but Odyn just didn't want to get busted after Skovald lost.

That's why we kill Odyn in the new mini Raid.

No, we don't.

In ages past, Odyn led the titan-forged armies against the Black Empire of the Old Gods. But for millennia he has been confined to the Halls of Valor by the curse of his bitter nemesis, Helya. Odyn seeks mortal champions to vanquish the ruler of Helheim and secure his freedom.

Overview - Odyn challenges players to prove their worth before delving into Helheim to face Helya. Players begin the encounter facing Hymdall and Hyrja. After bringing both Hymdall and Hyrja to 25% health before they can cast Revivify, Odyn leaps into battle.

At 55% health remaining, Odyn shows his true power and begins to fill the room with Cleansing Flame. When Odyn reaches 10% health, he is satisfied with your martial prowess, and allows you to become his champions in the fight against Helya.

[Mehrunes]

You mostly see Harry, Ron and Hermione. That's usually the most focused, there isn't that much world building. Warcraft tends to do characters and world building. I still don't buy Warcraft being so low bar. Not to mention retcons doesn't suddenly mean bad.

Yeah, just like racial stories focus on the leaders, then more neutral story focuses on Khadgar and the like. And retcon is the highest level of inconsistency attainable. Since when is inconsistency a good thing when it comes to storytelling?

Retcons happened few and far between, because Blizzard didn't write Warcraft's lore with the mindset that the game was going to explode in popularity and demand greater attention to detail for the next decade and beyond. the story framework to an RTS only gave them so much to work with.

Few retcons vs no retcons. Hmm, still not seeing the superiority of WoW over Harry Potter in terms of writing quality.

The idea of the "retcon" is often met with derision and scorn by wide cross-section of people, but I've always been of a mind to judge each as its own thing. Some retcons can be for the best, after all - one case and point that has always stuck with me is the Eredar/Draenei retcon that happened with TBC. Reworking the history of the Eredar gave us a lot more story than their original backstory, and didn't really change a whole lot of Sargeras' backstory or motivation (aside from removing the Eredar as one of the factors of his corruption). Personally, I think the Eredar's new backstory gives them more depth as befits a playable race. I also tend to think of the backstory of WoW as being told through the lenses of set perspectives - the "Chronicle" volumes are really the first compendiums of lore to be presented with a truly third-person, omniscient point of view on the Warcraft universe.

It's still a fuck up. Working around a fuck up and trying to fix it doesn't negate the fuck up happening. Giving depth to races can be very realistically achieved without that. And this particular one certainly is not told through any lens, Word of God outright confirmed the blunder and that it happened due to carelessness.

[Aucald]

It's still a fuck up. Working around a fuck up and trying to fix it doesn't negate the fuck up happening. Giving depth to races can be very realistically achieved without that. And this particular one certainly is not told through any lens, Word of God outright confirmed the blunder and that it happened due to carelessness.

I agree, I'm just saying that the end-result of their mistake turned out for the better in my opinion. They could've easily done something along the lines of: "oh, but there was this secretive subset of Eredar that weren't originally evil, or were somehow redeemed, and they split off from the freed demonic Eredar and had their own adventures." Except that kind of feels like an entirely tacked on story (which it would be), and probably also wouldn't escape the label of "retcon" either (which it technically wouldn't be). It was done in error, but that doesn't necessarily consign it automatically to the dustbin of history. Many errors have resulted in ultimately positive outcomes, like Penicillin. Judge each on its own merit or lack thereof is what I am saying.

[Al Gorefiend]

Yeah, just like racial stories focus on the leaders, then more neutral story focuses on Khadgar and the like. And retcon is the highest level of inconsistency attainable. Since when is inconsistency a good thing when it comes to storytelling?




Few retcons vs no retcons. Hmm, still not seeing the superiority of WoW over Harry Potter in terms of writing quality.




It's still a fuck up. Working around a fuck up and trying to fix it doesn't negate the fuck up happening. Giving depth to races can be very realistically achieved without that. And this particular one certainly is not told through any lens, Word of God outright confirmed the blunder and that it happened due to carelessness.

Nothing's gonna make you change your mind, but I hope you at least are capable of realizing that JKR and Blizzard are writing on two different mediums, and if Harry Potter universe became an MMO with multiple people writing the story it'd have retcons too.

Marvel comics, DC comics, Dungeons & Dragons all have retcons. Star Wars had retcons, are they bad stories?