Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Vash The Stampede]

Sorry dear but YOU underestimate the us law.

That's why pirate sites are a dime a dozen.

No they couldnt if they dont all want suddenly move to ecuador... Blizzard knows WHO they are and WHERE they live.

Unless the people behind Nostalrius have nothing to do with the re-opening of Nostalrius. The server code is open source.

Jesus stop watching Fox - Russia has laws too....

I don't watch TV and Snowden. How are they at getting to Snowden?

Sorry you cant be seriously THAT stupid can you? Nost took software they DONT created and is trademarked by blizzard and run a private server and they went as far and did it even in front of Blizzard in their HQ.

Point to a specific example. The problem is they use a heavily modified open source server. We don't really know too much about the details of what code they use that is Blizzards.

Lol - whats next? you say its okay to download movies like Westworld for free cause its 43 years old?

It was until Disney changed that.

fixed that number for you - plus 3/4 of that where fakes.

Doesn't matter. Even if you're right 200,000 is still substantial.

Blizzard has EVERY RIGHT on WOW - For example you cant sell doomhammer replicas and teach classes how to be an orc warrior without being sued by Blizzard for copyright infringement.

Blizzard has every right to the client, but the server is a different story. For example, using a Windows machine I could use Windows Server to log in with Active Directory, or I could do the same with a Linux server. You don't see Microsoft going after RedHat or countless other servers that basically do what Windows Server does. As long as the server doesn't use any copyright code then it's totally legal.

If Blizzard had a ecosystem built entirely on their server, then we wouldn't have this discussion. Like a cloud based service where the game loads entirely from online. WoW doesn't work like this.

[Deleted]

Do you really believe it's childish for a company to want to maintain full control over it's IPs? It literally has 0 to do with the people who want the servers and everything to do with them not wanting a 3rd party to have any control over their IPs that they haven't granted. This is the type of stance that nearly all companies of Blizzards stature would take.

It's true that it's their legal right to protect the IP but this is a very specific situation because it's a older version of a MMO.
And a older version of the MMO that is impossible to play.
In WoW's case the game is completely diferent, different world, different gameplay, different talents, different spells. It's a totally different game.

Makes no sense (to me) why they are persecuting anyone who does want to play that specific version of the game that no longer exists and is impossible to play by other means.

Blizzad is basically saying "we hate everyone who wants to play Vanilla". They are not just protecting the IP, they are saying a big "F U" to everyone who wants to play Vanilla because....this is the only way to play it.
Even if it means to steal the IP of Blizzard, this is the only way to play that version of the game.

It's not like any other games where you can simply put in the old disk of Sega Saturn and play it. You can't do that with Vanilla.

[Eleccybubb]

It's true that it's their legal right to protect the IP but this is a very specific situation because it's a older version of a MMO.
And a older verison of the MMO that is impossible to play.
In WoW's case the game is completely diferent, different world, different gameplay, different talents, different spells. It's a totally different game.

Makes no sense (to me) why they are persecuting anyone who does want to play that specific version of the game that no longer exists and is impossible to play by other means.

Blizzad is basically saying "we hate everyone who wants to play Vanilla". They are not just protecting the IP, they are saying a big "F U" to everyone who wants to play Vanilla because....this is the only way to play it.

Doesn't matter. They still own "World of Warcraft" whether that specific version exists currently or not. Also yes I'm sure they were sat there at their desks grinning maliciously when they sent the Cease and Desist because they hated Nostalrius and it's players so much. That's why they were willing to meet with Nost right?

[xChurch]

It's true that it's their legal right to protect the IP but this is a very specific situation because it's a older version of a MMO.
And a older verison of the MMO that is impossible to play.
In WoW's case the game is completely diferent, different world, different gameplay, different talents, different spells. It's a totally different game.

Makes no sense (to me) why they are persecuting anyone who does want to play that specific version of the game that no longer exists and is impossible to play by other means.

Blizzad is basically saying "we hate everyone who wants to play Vanilla". They are not just protecting the IP, they are saying a big "F U" to everyone who wants to play Vanilla because....this is the only way to play it.

They aren't saying that though, they are saying they don't want their IP to be represented by randoms with no either local or internation reputation for actually providing the service they are attempting to provide behind Blizzards back. And as far has the law is concerned, no and MMO is not any different than any other games, I don't recall people being able to illegally download a unpatched game version just because you can't normally get an unpatched version in retail after patches have come out.

[Kyanion]

It's true that it's their legal right to protect the IP but this is a very specific situation because it's a older version of a MMO.
And a older version of the MMO that is impossible to play.
In WoW's case the game is completely diferent, different world, different gameplay, different talents, different spells. It's a totally different game.

Makes no sense (to me) why they are persecuting anyone who does want to play that specific version of the game that no longer exists and is impossible to play by other means.

Blizzad is basically saying "we hate everyone who wants to play Vanilla". They are not just protecting the IP, they are saying a big "F U" to everyone who wants to play Vanilla because....this is the only way to play it.
Even if it means to steal the IP of Blizzard, this is the only way to play that version of the game.

It's not like any other games where you can simply put in the old disk of Sega Saturn and play it. You can't do that with Vanilla.

Yeah these guys are such heroes right? I mean they were going as far to advertise on official WoW sites, have streamers call attention to the game and make youtube videos. Why? Because they wanted to steal people from Blizzard to come play their game. Such benevolent souls. Stop giving money to Blizzard and come play the game for free!

We love the game you guys created, but we're going to try and harm your company by causing you to lose money now! We're super friends right!?

[Deleted]

They aren't saying that though, they are saying they don't want their IP to be represented by randoms with no either local or internation reputation for actually providing the service they are attempting to provide behind Blizzards back. And as far has the law is concerned, no and MMO is not any different than any other games, I don't recall people being able to illegally download a unpatched game version just because you can't normally get an unpatched version in retail after patches have come out.

I think is totally different in this case because if i want to play Elders Scrolls Morrowind i can still buy the old disk and play. Or buy it in Steam.
In this case we can't play Vanilla (a 12 year old game).
We can't buy the disk and play it.

I don't know any other case like this.

Seriously, they are saying "F U" to people who want to play Vanilla. There is no other way to interpret this IF they don't do it themselves.
It's a direct hate move if they dont do legacy servers and keep shutting down important private servers of Vanilla.

[Eleccybubb]

I think is totally different in this case because if i want to play Elders Scrolls Morrowind i can still buy the old disk and play. Or buy it in Steam.
In this case we can't play Vanilla (a 12 year old game).
We can't buy the disk and play it.

I don't know any other case like this.

Seriously, they are saying "F U" to people who want to play Vanilla. There is no other way to interpret this IF they don't do it themselves.
It's a direct hate move towards everyone who wants to play Vanilla if they dont do legacy servers.

Morrowind is a single player game. Not an MMO that evolved over time but still had the core basics. Silly comparison. And again inviting Nost over to chat and acting polite to them was a hate move? Yeah sure it was. Not like the Nost crowd came into forums and youtube trying to advertise their server and shit on retail did they? Oh wait. Instead of spewing the "they hate vanilla" argument look at it from the actual realistic angle of them having to protect their IP as nearly every sane company would.

[xChurch]

I think is totally different in this case because if i want to play Elders Scrolls Morrowind i can still buy the old disk and play. Or buy it in Steam.
In this case we can't play Vanilla (a 12 year old game).
We can't buy the disk and play it.

I don't know any other case like this.

Seriously, they are saying "F U" to people who want to play Vanilla. There is no other way to interpret this IF they don't do it themselves.
It's a direct hate move if they dont do legacy servers.

I'm sorry you seem to take it this way but I can say with almost certainty that Blizzard does not hate people who want Legacy, you just aren't a big enough group to justify the financial burden, it's really that simple. Plus it's not just them that feel this way, there is probably as many (if not more) people who don't want time (and money) wasted on Legacy as there is people who want it.

[Deficineiron]

Except you probably don't really want all those things back. More likely you just want to run old-school Strat once or twice for the nostalgia.

Let's face it, nostalgia is a very powerful thing. It lets us remember the good things while forgetting the bad. We all miss the old days, but realistically do you really want to go back to the days of literally broken specs and talents, faction specific classes, 5 minute blessings, terrible transportation, 16 slot bags, bags full of ammo and soul shards, going into a dungeon for profession training, and millions of other things most people are glad to leave behind?

For those who think they know that they want classic wow, think again, brightamethyst has solved the case for us

(this is from a poll thread which is being hijacked for general discussion and nostalgia lectures)

[Shridevi]

Activision Blizzard is very different than 2004 Blizzard, and their ways of dealing with IP or approving projects like legacy servers may be much colder and more calculated. I have no doubt that Blizzard employees would love to play vanilla WoW and to provide that service to fans. It seemed obvious from the Nost meeting that Blizzard was excited about the legacy possibility and that Blizz employees got a kick out of running Stratholme on Nost.

I don't know, Blizzard always seemed like a playful sort of company that gave their fans lots of hidden jokes and Easter eggs. I noticed that trend declining since MoP. The games are still decent but it's sad. Their games for casuals make so much money that it should really give them the budget for the passion projects that we're used to seeing. Vanilla was a passion project, and we want it back!

[Deleted]

I'm sorry you seem to take it this way but I can say with almost certainty that Blizzard does not hate people who want Legacy, you just aren't a big enough group to justify the financial burden, it's really that simple. Plus it's not just them that feel this way, there is probably as many (if not more) people who don't want time (and money) wasted on Legacy as there is people who want it.

I don't even want Vanilla servers. It's like living in the past. It's sad to me.
But i wouldn't go around making it impossible to happen.

They are such a niche market of people living in the past. Let them be.
It's not like they are stealing customers of retail or anything.

By admiting Vanilla servers are stealing customers of retail is saying there is an actual player base.

[Deficineiron]

Activision Blizzard is very different than 2004 Blizzard, and their ways of dealing with IP or approving projects like legacy servers may be much colder and more calculated. I have no doubt that Blizzard employees would love to play vanilla WoW and to provide that service to fans. It seemed obvious from the Nost meeting that Blizzard was excited about the legacy possibility and that Blizz employees got a kick out of running Stratholme on Nost.

I don't know, Blizzard always seemed like a playful sort of company that gave their fans lots of hidden jokes and Easter eggs. I noticed that trend declining since MoP. The games are still decent but it's sad. Their games for casuals make so much money that it should really give them the budget for the passion projects that we're used to seeing. Vanilla was a passion project, and we want it back!

Bingo. change in overall holding company management, change in direct importance to holding company management (blizz was a big chunk of a/b revenue at time of merger), change of ownership to a mid-cap PUBLICLY TRADED video game company, etc. These are huge issues.

my big concern, in the context of your comments, is that the a/b cerberus suggests tuning for today's market - in effect, that taking a classic-themed map with old quests etc and adding in all the QOL stuff, flying, mass nerfing of everything, and mult. raid difficulties would make better sense. Sort of a theme-park 'see classic and kill kt' deal. certainly would, in theory, be much more accessible to a much larger group of potential customers. (bonus question - who uses that phrase?)

Think old scholomance vs. the new one, with talking skull screaming go go go!!!. Imagine that implemented across all of classic map.

[Kyanion]

For those who think they know that they want classic wow, think again, brightamethyst has solved the case for us

Yeah cool, reply to that post in that thread.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not like they are stealing customers of retail or anything.

Yeah they are like goodwill ambassadors or some shit! I mean they totally weren't advertising on public wow forums to try and lure people over to play a FREE version of WoW. You think they weren't trying to steal people from Blizz? Really?

[Deleted]

Yeah they are like goodwill ambassadors or some shit! I mean they totally weren't advertising on public wow forums to try and lure people over to play a FREE version of WoW. You think they weren't trying to steal people from Blizz? Really?

Trying to steal the ones who actually want to play Vanilla.
And also the ones who just want to play for free sure side effect

[Kyanion]

Trying to steal the ones who actually want to play Vanilla.
And also the ones who just want to play for free sure side effect

So when you said "It's not like they are stealing customers of retail or anything" when they are in fact stealing customers of retail...yeah..

Gee and you wonder why Blizz sent a C&D letter to these amazing ambassadors of Vanilla WoW

[TriHard]

I don't even want Vanilla servers. It's like living in the past. It's sad to me.
But i wouldn't go around making it impossible to happen.

They are such a niche market of people living in the past. Let them be.
It's not like they are stealing customers of retail or anything.

By admiting Vanilla servers are stealing customers of retail is saying there is an actual player base.

Man, you have to be the most ignorant person I've ever seen on Mmo-champ, and that says a lot.

Do you honestly think that there's not an actual player base for classic WoW?
If you honest to god think that, then you're as silly as your ignorant comments and flawed logic.

There is a huge consumer base for nostalgia in general. Just look at games that get remastered , Runescape and a whole bunch of other things, they all do insanely well.
Now we're getting a remastered diablo as well, and guess what, it is going to sell an insane amount of copies.

It'll not triumph current WoW, but it sure as hell is gonna pull 200k + players even if they would have to sub to that particular game.
And 200k is enough to keep it going and for Blizzard to make money on it.

And as for saying people live in the past, not really. Every human being out there desires something from the past, a feeling, an item, a particular period, etc.
Are you honestly saying that probably 99% of the world's population lives in the past?

[Deleted]

Man, you have to be the most ignorant person I've ever seen on Mmo-champ, and that says a lot.

Do you honestly think that there's not an actual player base for classic WoW?
If you honest to god think that, then you're as silly as your ignorant comments and flawed logic.

There is a huge consumer base for nostalgia in general. Just look at games that get remastered , Runescape and a whole bunch of other things, they all do insanely well.
Now we're getting a remastered diablo as well, and guess what, it is going to sell an insane amount of copies.

It'll not triumph current WoW, but it sure as hell is gonna pull 200k + players even if they would have to sub to that particular game.
And 200k is enough to keep it going and for Blizzard to make money on it.

And as for saying people live in the past, not really. Every human being out there desires something from the past, a feeling, an item, a particular period, etc.
Are you honestly saying that probably 99% of the world's population lives in the past?

It was my personal opinion.
I think MANY things from the past WoW are better than today.
Raid gating, meeting stones, Talents, gems, class quests, no LFG, no LFR etc

Just saying living in Vanilla forever for me, personally, is impossible and living in the past.
Do you imagine yourself in a Vanilla server for more 10 years without any kind of new content?

[Deficineiron]

It was my personal opinion.
I think MANY things from the past WoW are better than today.
Raid gating, meeting stones, Talents, gems, class quests, no LFG, no LFR etc

Just saying living in Vanilla forever for me is impossible and living in the past.

I had a heck of a time trying to explain this concept to folks when Star Wars - the Phantom Menace came out. It seemed so obvious - better special effects, bigger budget, cgi characters - yet people actually tried to argue against jar Jar's innate superiority and disputed obscure stuff like dialogue and plot, allegedly. One odd person even contested the notion that ordinary junkyard slave kids would routinely build protocol droids, even though it seems obvious that most junkyard slave kids do. They even tried to say that rickety 1977 movie original was better.

Good to see someone understands Long Live Jar Jar!! (my personal opinion of course)

[Shridevi]

People like to talk about "moving forward" and "looking ahead."

Dude, we've lived in a fake world fighting fake video game dragons and collecting fake video game clothes for our characters for the past 12 years. The ENTIRE GAME is nostalgia-based. Who randomly decides to start playing a 12 year old MMO? No one! Everyone has been subbed for years. "Moving forward" is quitting MMOs and being real human beings.

I played WoD, quit, then tried Nostalrius. I sincerely liked it better than WoD as a game.

Yeah, the moments I had in vanilla were some of the best in my life at the time, but when I go back to play games like FF6, FF7, Zelda 64, or even Diablo or Warcraft 3, I get bored as fuck.

Vanilla is genuinely a good game, at least to many of us.

[Addict]

People like to talk about "moving forward" and "looking ahead."

Dude, we've lived in a fake world fighting fake video game dragons and collecting fake video game clothes for our characters for the past 12 years. The ENTIRE GAME is nostalgia-based. Who randomly decides to start playing a 12 year old MMO? No one! Everyone has been subbed for years. "Moving forward" is quitting MMOs and being real human beings.

I played WoD, quit, then tried Nostalrius. I sincerely liked it better than WoD as a game.

Yeah, the moments I had in vanilla were some of the best in my life at the time, but when I go back to play games like FF6, FF7, Zelda 64, or even Diablo or Warcraft 3, I get bored as fuck.

Vanilla is genuinely a good game, at least to many of us.

My best mate started to play WoW 9 months ago for the first time, there are still newcomers.