Already seeing 'disastrous' consequences of Brexit, Richard Branson says

[D3thray]

I mean I'd have thought a decision as big as brexit would need something more consensus building than a simple up-down vote. Plenty of major decisions in government require more than a simple majority. There certainly is no clear mandate on brexit. But what do I know about the tyranny of the majority.

[Deleted]

So you're saying it's totally okay to give the EU the middle finger, taking none of the burdens while still expecting all the benefits? You can't have best of both worlds. Don't you see the arrogance in such a deal?

And what started out as a trade block has suddenly become a Political union, which btw was never the point of the E.U . And now there is talk of a EU defense Budget.

[ranzino]

Britain may be getting some backlash from a pissy EU over their exit, but eventually everyone will get over it and realize Britain is still a western country with a populace of people who make things and want to buy things others make and the trade deals will be done.

EU will want to trade with UK ( or Little England, if the union is shattered), but not on same terms like today. UK could have a better deal, but they want to scream and stomp theit feet aka "muh sovereignity".

[Deleted]

The people who voted Leave are only now just realising that we might still have to pay money into the EU if we want to keep our free market trade. As well accepting Freedom of Movement.

Thanks guys, so much for the myth of the educated Leave vote.

[ranzino]

The people who voted Leave are only now just realising that we might still have to pay money into the EU if we want to keep our free market trade. As well accepting Freedom of Movement.

Thanks guys, so much for the myth of the educated Leave vote.

Well, UK can choose cold hard Brexit also. No free movement is ok, if you abstain from nice terms to single market access and trade with EU like an utter foreign country. NI to RoI dissens over border control conflict included.

[Shadowmelded]

Oh so you think they should block triggering article 50 altogether? Funny because the remain MP's are trying to say that is not the reason why they want a vote on the terms, though I suspect that is their underlying intention too.

And what about the rights of the 52%?

I'm not saying which way they should vote but it's really hypocritical to bang on about taking back Parliamentary Sovereignty only to strip Parliament of powers. How they vote is inconsequential. Politically many of them will have to vote to trigger article 50 even if they don't personally believe in it. Legally however the decision should be theirs.

[Kallisto]

Have you ever heard of the Commonwealth?

The same commonwealth that isn't what people seem to think it is. It isn't an organization that's going to hive mind run to britain.

African countries focus on African issues, many of whom are not going to go "Oh UK is out of EU let's become best buds again."
India is becoming its own regional power and going to one day become out and out richer than the UK from overall money. It's not going to care what the UK does.
Aus/NZ focus more on South east Asia and the pacific. Not going to focus their attention to the UK.
Malaysia/Singapore both going to look towards China and India as main trading partners.
Caribbean countries and Canada. They gravitate towards the US.
That leaves Cyprus and Malta who are in the EU and will be focused on EU stuff.

The UK is not a special country and people shouldn't think like it is. It's just another middling country in the continent of Europe full of middling countries at best who if they wish to have an impact in the world need to merge.

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The pound currently is at the same place it was against the Euro 5 years ago. While i believe the ftse is doing well.

FTSE 100 level is being inflated over the cheapness of the pound. While the outright number is at record high, the worth of such a number is now 40% less than what it was pre vote.

[Deleted]

To be honest, I can't find a reason why this wouldn't work. Great idea, in my opinion.

Then the twats out in the sticks who voted to leave, who incidentally deal with the least immigration and received the most subsidisation from the EU, would complain that it was biased because they dint ahv no ejjucashun.

[Deleted]

Welcome to the second world UK lel

Have they become Commies?

[Deleted]

Ah yes, Richard Branson, the Billionaire Leech who can't make his Virgin trains run on time without pocketing a ton of Government cash, refuses to pay high street shops and claims his Broadband is fantastic while using BT landlines.

Sorry, but no. Richard Branson is a Globalist, he makes money on leeching cheap shit from other places and than marketing it huge in the UK. Brexit has actually helped exporters, And I know many people on these forums are dim, but the fact is the British pound was Over-inflated for years.

So no, I think you're full of Shit Richard Branson. You don't even contribute your full Taxes to the UK because you base most of your shit in Ireland.

Fuck you.

[Tinch]

I'm not saying which way they should vote but it's really hypocritical to bang on about taking back Parliamentary Sovereignty only to strip Parliament of powers. How they vote is inconsequential. Politically many of them will have to vote to trigger article 50 even if they don't personally believe in it. Legally however the decision should be theirs.

If they have no intention of respecting the result of the referendum then they shouldn't have voted for it in the first place, and I'm sure there will be a backlash at the next election for any MP that attempts to go against what their constituents voted for.

[Deleted]

Then the twats out in the sticks who voted to leave, who incidentally deal with the least immigration and received the most subsidisation from the EU, would complain that it was biased because they dint ahv no ejjucashun.

Funny, A Londoner calling people not in London uneducated. Tell me; Do you have a Job or are you another freeloading student?

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EU will want to trade with UK ( or Little England, if the union is shattered), but not on same terms like today. UK could have a better deal, but they want to scream and stomp theit feet aka "muh sovereignity".

Maybe it's because we don't want to have our laws being overturned by Bureaucrats in countries that have always tried to hamper us anyway?

[Shadowmelded]

If they have no intention of respecting the result of the referendum then they shouldn't have voted for it in the first place, and I'm sure there will be a backlash at the next election for any MP that attempts to go against what their constituents voted for.

Again, no one is talking about not respecting the result. If you want Brexit to succeed it has to be done constitutionally and there's a lot of evidence to suggest that, constitutionally, Parliament should get a say in triggering Article 50.

[Deleted]

Again, no one is talking about not respecting the result. If you want Brexit to succeed it has to be done constitutionally and there's a lot of evidence to suggest that, constitutionally, Parliament should get a say in triggering Article 50.

They have had "Their say" But the Country voted. It's done. Brexit is Happening and instead of people trying to weasel out of it so their EU overlords can keep this country penned up, they maybe we should move the fuck on. The EU was a collapsing Star, we need to get out of the Super Nova and Avoid the Event Horizon as the EU devours itself.

[Barnabas]

The sooner they brexit the sooner they avoid Italy's banking collapse. It's a reality that will come.

[Deleted]

The sooner they brexit the sooner they avoid Italy's banking collapse. It's a reality that will come.

And Irelands.

And Spains.

But remember, the EU was Strong and totally not a buffer for Germany's Economy.

[Theodarzna]

Given your past neo-nationalism positions, sometimes I'm honestly surprised you are against monarchy

I am not someone who is going to say "Democracy is the only way," I will however find it funny when people who espouse it in one hand will throw it away with the other. I am just curious as to how one squares the circle of being liberal but believing that voting any other way but theirs should not be tolerated.

My view is that democracy relies on an educated and informed public. Today, the quality of education provided is often an inadequate baseline, from which the masses can become informed. The masses are asked to form an opinion on the long-term effects of free trade agreements, geopolitical grand strategy, identifying the 'good guys' in horrible civil wars where everything has become shades of black. The masses are asked by the democratic process - for their educated and informed opinion on tax policy and brackets, on the specifics of 2000 page healthcare plans, on economic policies, FIRE regulations, food & environmental policy, etc.

The level of education and intelligence required to grasp just a handful of these issues in true depth can take a lifetime of passion and study to achieve. A rudimentary understanding would suffice - but given the complexity of the subjects today - the sheer number of dials and gauges we need to monitor and control - frankly - we have failed as democratic societies to reasonably prepare the masses - through education - to the level required to participate meaningfully in every conversation. People may have the education required to participate in some of these conversations - but all of them? None of us, even on MMO-GenOT, is truly versed educated to the level needed to become informed about every topic we're expected to base our vote on.

When I say informed, what I mean is that an education is merely a baseline knowledge - to be able to vote effectively on the geopolitics of Syria - and the degree and method to which the US should intervene - education of their past, their culture, their historical factions, their motivations - are necessary - but it falls upon the media to sufficiently inform us on how these things have evolved from the history books we learned in school.

We rely (foolishly!) on the media to inform the educated masses on how each topic has evolved from where our education on Syria left off - in an objective, insightful, and concise way. Instead, media is increasingly becoming a clown show - a bunch of jackass politicians from all over the world jammed into a tiny clown car of talking heads in gridded boxes - all shouting their obviously biased opinions over one another until the only discernable things the educated populace can discern, is that a) there is a controversy, b) the media isn't doing what we need them to do (find the signal through the noise, or harmonize the cacophony), c) nothing useful will come from watching the talking heads.

At best, the population is both educated and informed about their specific issues - of personal interest or related to their profession - but even then we lack an objective means to balance the innate bias of our sources, given that our news media is failing to perform the function we require of it (objective concise reporting). If we work in the FIRE sector, we probably have some education on the subjects - and we are likely informed on the current state - but we may lack opposing opinions = even when we are educated and informed on our subjects, it is often within an echo chamber of confirming perspectives.

This means that virtually none of the population is properly prepared to participate on the level required for democracy to properly function anymore. Most of us are educated in some topics, fewer of us are both educated and informed about a given topic - even when we are both educated and informed, it may not be sufficiently broad and objective: because we are informed by biased sources within the industries we work in (I feel as though I'm failing to explain this issue - think of if you work in the Oil & Natural Gas industry, you are likely informed on the industry by material published on your employers website or newsletter or industry newsletters - and what do those newsletters usually conclude? "Sometimes we make a little mess, but for the most part we're necessary, awesome, and almost never make mistakes" = informed but biased).

I think democracy was a great idea and a grand experiment - and I think it could have worked in a different time - but the complexity and breadth of topics in today's world is simply too vast and too deep for us to all academically participate in. I don't claim to have the right solution to replace it, and I want to preserve the distribution of power that democracy intends - but if we are failing to meet the assumptions that a sound democracy requires (educated & informed), we need limitations in place which ensure that democracy can only exist once those requirements are met. I think the easiest solution would be to create frequent referendum on every topical issue, but each referendum is prefaced by a test of at least rudimentary knowledge on the subject - itself prefaced by access to all the knowledge and answers relevant to the subject. Choices in each referendum are weighted based on the score of the voter on the prior knowledge exam.

Let's use BrExit as an example - at the start of the decision, information - something like a textbook or documentary or wiki - would be produced and made publicly available. People would have months to read, watch, and explore the topic free of the media douchebaggery of today. At the time of the referendum, anyone would be allowed to walk in - take a multiple choice knowledge exam - and place their vote. If they got 80% on the exam, their vote counts as 80% of a full vote. If they knew nothing about the subject, filled in 'C' for every question on the exam and scored 25%, their vote counts as 25% of a vote.

That is essentially what a good democracy requires - a vote amongst the educated and informed - but available to everyone to determine their level of involvement in democracy, on a per topic basis, and weighted to their knowledge of the discussion (even if it still favors spamming the polls with people filling in 'C').

Maybe that's just my ivory tower wizardry speaking though

Here is the trick on education, I too hold advanced degrees and I do not favor the world you, and to a greater extent Connal, envision. You speak of education but what I think your more aptly describing is a form of indoctrination. Because let us be real here, the issue isn't education it is that there exists a mass of voters who do not want to be a part of the globalized neo-liberal capitalist world that powerful want, thus the calls for technocracy and essentially dictatorship of that elite professional class. The issue, the real issue is there exists a disconnect between what the people actually want and what the people managing and ruling individual societies want. There is a disconnect between the governed and the people governing or simply the incredibly wealthy, and that ultimately drives the conflict.

The problem as I see it is that there are a lot of people wishing to build a secular New Jerusalem, and are finding out that the general public is resistant to this new dispensation, how do you deal with the masses not wanting to convert? Well I suppose you can just force them to.

[Shadowmelded]

They have had "Their say" But the Country voted. It's done. Brexit is Happening and instead of people trying to weasel out of it so their EU overlords can keep this country penned up, they maybe we should move the fuck on. The EU was a collapsing Star, we need to get out of the Super Nova and Avoid the Event Horizon as the EU devours itself.

I don't know you lot are so paranoid about Parliament not actually triggering Article 50, I've already said that politically it would be pretty much impossible for them to ignore the result. Parliament has to be the one to do it though, not the executive since it deals with issues like removing rights from Citizens. If that can be done under Royal Prerogative it sets a dangerous precedent and undermines Parliament's Sovereignty. I thought that was a big issue for you?

[Incredibale]

MANDELA EFFECT

His name is BronsOn

[Seranthor]

51.9% is hardly a "majority".

Almost exactly half the population voted against it. A great deal of people voted based on lies peddled by the leave campaign.

50%+1 is a majority.