There is no reason to gate the release of LFR anymore.

[muto]

I just think it's funny how Mythic Xavius died before LFR Xavius

[Deleted]

Maybe gating LFR is a way to "simulate" the notion of progression over time for the most casual PvE players ?

[Deleted]

People don't understand that LFR is really underrated. Yes, the mechanics don't kill you as fast but that means that you actually have to continue with your rotation and priority list. You can't say "Hey sorry my dps sucks, I got to deal with all the mechanics." Let's be real, the mechanics aren't even hard. They just slow down your dps a bit. They give you a break. In LFR you don't have that break and it's a lot more hectic and really shows who can play their rotations correctly.

I though that function was provided by dummies available everywhere in the game

[Eleccybubb]

Maybe gating LFR is a way to "simulate" the notion of progression over time for the most casual PvE players ?

Nah it's to keep them subbed so they throw money at Blizzard. Everyone knows that.

[Armourboy]

Not at all, there was/is other things to do besides raiding. The problem happens when people demand to see content but don't want to actually do anything to make that happen. It's why LFR is a piss poor excuse for "raiding".

Sadly over the years the reason for LFR existing and who asked for what has been lost over the years of bickering.

Casuals didn't really ask for LFR or to be able to raid, what most casuals asked for was to be able to see the end of the story because they would do all of these quest lines and couldn't see the end because Blizzard stuck them in the raids. So lets be clear, from the very beginning all casuals were asking for was a conclusion to the story ( that discussion goes back to TBC because most casuals weren't even leveled in Vanilla ).

What then happened over time was that Blizzard eroded the content that casual players had been playing by making leveling and questing faster, because raiders and PvPers didn't want to be assed to do it. They also cut way back on the grind and prep needed to go raiding because raiders bitched about that too, nevermind the fact that tons of casuals chewed up time and found things to do often supplying those things or doing those things.

So Cata lands and everything comes together to but heads. They made leveling quick and easy. There is literally no prep for raiding, its log in and go raid. You can queue up for everything but raids, and any grind there is has all been shifted to justice/valor vendors. So why is all of this a problem? Basically everything is done quickly in Cata, outside of doing the raids themselves, there is literally not much else for anyone to do outside of that. Problem is with the increase in difficulty to raiding because of the shared lock out, those casuals that may have tooled around in Kara for all of TBC, or Naxx for most of Wrath now have zero to do outside of the weekly valor grind. So people whine about nothing to do, this stinks, that stinks, etc. So Blizzard in all of it brilliant wisdom decides that the best course of action is to shovel everyone, casuals and hardcore alike into the same content, Raiding! Brilliant right? Kill two birds with one stone right? Casuals see the story, raiders get their raiding oh and because now that everyone is using the same content we can just shove all of the development into that.

So now we get closer to the problems of today, balancing all of this out to make it fit. Problem is to make it something of progression for casuals ( cause you stripped everything else out) you now have ticked the original raiders off because nothing is special anymore. Oh and to boot they feel like its worth doing because they may get something to push them along in the content they've been doing forever. So you strip all of the rewards out of LFR and the raiders are happy again, but wait now our subs are failing because there is crap for progression for casuals again because all of the gear is ugly and is worse than they can get from the other content we gave them to do. Crap!

So what is the TLDR version: Blizzard made a bone headed decision to take all of the work out of raiding, stripped all of the content that casuals used to do out, and forced themselves to create a crappier version of what raiders were doing just to try and shoehorn them in something to do. What they should of done all of those many years ago was to have told the raiders to suck it up and grind and prep for raids, or don't if you can't handle it.

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The problem though is that LFR was never really supposed to be a "rewarding" experience. You aren't supposed to feel all that accomplished and your character doesn't really get more powerful gear from it.

I think LFR is fine and is in a good place. If you have already done NM and are able to do that... I'm not sure why you care so much about LFR?

Is it the drop in/drop out convenience?

Actually it originally was meant to be just that, because Blizzard had stripped everything else out of the game for casuals to do. LFR was the answer to the destruction of the casual raiding community they built in Wrath and then annihilated with the changes in loot and difficult in Cata. LFR exists because of piss poor decisions by Blizzard, not because of a whiny causal community.

Sorry that came out a bit harsh, I think LFR is in a perfectly good spot right now.

[bufferunderrun]

The problem though is that LFR was never really supposed to be a "rewarding" experience. You aren't supposed to feel all that accomplished and your character doesn't really get more powerful gear from it.

I think LFR is fine and is in a good place. If you have already done NM and are able to do that... I'm not sure why you care so much about LFR?

Is it the drop in/drop out convenience?

That is what i'm trying to point out because it's the point lfr before wod rewarded something in btw dungeon and normal raid now it's still like that but the reward from WQ are the same for less than a fraction of the time you spent.

And i care because is fair and square no matter what you play the automated queue is not influenced by the FOTM, you are not in the hand of other player but you decide when, where and for how much you can commit to the game.

[iperson]

Seems to me blizzard is sending a clear message that they don't like LFR. crap rewards, gating, etc... my guess is they'd love to scrap it altogether, but they're dealing enough with trying to put the flight genie back in the bottle.

[bufferunderrun]

Sadly over the years the reason for LFR existing and who asked for what has been lost over the years of bickering.

Casuals didn't really ask for LFR or to be able to raid, what most casuals asked for was to be able to see the end of the story because they would do all of these quest lines and couldn't see the end because Blizzard stuck them in the raids. So lets be clear, from the very beginning all casuals were asking for was a conclusion to the story ( that discussion goes back to TBC because most casuals weren't even leveled in Vanilla ).

What then happened over time was that Blizzard eroded the content that casual players had been playing by making leveling and questing faster, because raiders and PvPers didn't want to be assed to do it. They also cut way back on the grind and prep needed to go raiding because raiders bitched about that too, nevermind the fact that tons of casuals chewed up time and found things to do often supplying those things or doing those things.

So Cata lands and everything comes together to but heads. They made leveling quick and easy. There is literally no prep for raiding, its log in and go raid. You can queue up for everything but raids, and any grind there is has all been shifted to justice/valor vendors. So why is all of this a problem? Basically everything is done quickly in Cata, outside of doing the raids themselves, there is literally not much else for anyone to do outside of that. Problem is with the increase in difficulty to raiding because of the shared lock out, those casuals that may have tooled around in Kara for all of TBC, or Naxx for most of Wrath now have zero to do outside of the weekly valor grind. So people whine about nothing to do, this stinks, that stinks, etc. So Blizzard in all of it brilliant wisdom decides that the best course of action is to shovel everyone, casuals and hardcore alike into the same content, Raiding! Brilliant right? Kill two birds with one stone right? Casuals see the story, raiders get their raiding oh and because now that everyone is using the same content we can just shove all of the development into that.

So now we get closer to the problems of today, balancing all of this out to make it fit. Problem is to make it something of progression for casuals ( cause you stripped everything else out) you now have ticked the original raiders off because nothing is special anymore. Oh and to boot they feel like its worth doing because they may get something to push them along in the content they've been doing forever. So you strip all of the rewards out of LFR and the raiders are happy again, but wait now our subs are failing because there is crap for progression for casuals again because all of the gear is ugly and is worse than they can get from the other content we gave them to do. Crap!

So what is the TLDR version: Blizzard made a bone headed decision to take all of the work out of raiding, stripped all of the content that casuals used to do out, and forced themselves to create a crappier version of what raiders were doing just to try and shoehorn them in something to do. What they should of done all of those many years ago was to have told the raiders to suck it up and grind and prep for raids, or don't if you can't handle it.

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Actually it originally was meant to be just that, because Blizzard had stripped everything else out of the game for casuals to do. LFR was the answer to the destruction of the casual raiding community they built in Wrath and then annihilated with the changes in loot and difficult in Cata. LFR exists because of piss poor decisions by Blizzard, not because of a whiny causal community.

Sorry that came out a bit harsh, I think LFR is in a perfectly good spot right now.

everything startet because of the stupid decision of killing casual 10 man in cataclysm, blizzard should have made them queueable and told the whiny bitch to fuck off and find a 25 man guild to do their hard and challenging content.

Funny thing is karazhan was considered casual content back in bc now it has returned has mythic only raid, stralol.

[Alvito]

LFR was never supposed to be about gear, just a way to allow people to see raid content that might not have the time or ability to without it. New or better sources of loot doesn't impact how LFR is done.

[dacoolist]

The problem though is that LFR was never really supposed to be a "rewarding" experience. You aren't supposed to feel all that accomplished and your character doesn't really get more powerful gear from it.

I think LFR is fine and is in a good place. If you have already done NM and are able to do that... I'm not sure why you care so much about LFR?

Is it the drop in/drop out convenience?

PantysauruzRax is 100% right though, nobody goes in for the rewarding experience - especially on how toxic the environment is really.. I say skip lfr and go straight for Normal-Roic-Myth!

[Armourboy]

Bold part. BC was maybe the last grind for raids, certainly nothing like that in wrath. I kind of fail to see how taking the work out of raiding would effect people who were not going to raid. You do make other good points though.

Because casuals chewed up lots of time supplying some of those things for people that couldn't be assed to do it. Professions may not have been that big of a deal for most raiders, but casuals used a ton of that stuff and spent time making that stuff, or supplying that stuff to raiders that didn't want to fool with it. Casuals used to chew up lots of time on small things, but would still move ahead. In general, making things easier over time sped up not only the process for raiders, but did so negatively in a way for casual players because while it made it easier to raid, it meant that content degraded faster for casuals too. Essentially, Blizzard created its own content creation problem, and heck made it worse by taking the " work " out of everything.

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LFR was never supposed to be about gear, just a way to allow people to see raid content that might not have the time or ability to without it. New or better sources of loot doesn't impact how LFR is done.

Not really sure where you are getting this idea from, its the reason gear has been a part of it from the start. LFR was Blizzards answer to destroying the casual raiding community they had created in Wrath. LFR was originally about the gear, because it was to be a progression path, and was until WoD for that group of people it was designed for.

[Vash The Stampede]

So your saying that 90% of the playerbase since Classic WoW have been playing the wrong game?

Essentially... Yes.

LFR is real raiding champ get use to it because its here to stay.

Then by mid November the playerbase will shrink down to 2 million. Looks like I'll be hunting for a Vanilla server to play real WoW before devs fix modern WoW. As it is Normal/Heroic/Mythic is just too many raid difficulties.

Enjoy your LFR, all 2.5 million of you.

I just think it's funny how Mythic Xavius died before LFR Xavius

Hence Mythic raiders aren't people with lots of time, but lots of skill. If people can finish the raid on Mythic before you have a chance to get into LFR, maybe you should Git Gud and PLAY THE GAME?! The Hello Kitty Park ride doesn't open until Tuesday.

[Armourboy]

everything startet because of the stupid decision of killing casual 10 man in cataclysm, blizzard should have made them queueable and told the whiny bitch to fuck off and find a 25 man guild to do their hard and challenging content.

Funny thing is karazhan was considered casual content back in bc now it has returned has mythic only raid, stralol.

I laugh because the fighting and bitching has been going on so long that people forget what LFR was even for and why it was even created to begin with. You are right, the whole damn thing exists because of one stupid decision. What is sad is that with MoP coming they could of changed it all back, and actually solved the problem. Can you imagine, 3 entire expansions with no LFR arguing if they hadn't have screwed that up so bad.

[dacoolist]

I just think it's funny how Mythic Xavius died before LFR Xavius

IMO, someone who works hard enough to down Mythic Xavius - especially how fast MotherRussia did it.. LFR, with a bunch of elitist wannabe toxic players.. they don't even deserve to see the same BOSS imo. But I'm one of those guys that's OK with LFR, LFR Gating, Cry Baby LFR Players, and myself BEING an LFR+ player, I feel like I get to talk shit about it because - GUESS WHAT, I'm that guy who never talks back, and just sits and carrys those idiots standing in fire/bad shit, and just gets shit done. I do however make a point on MMO-C.com when people make threads showing how out of control it is that they don't get handed everything in AFKvilleLFR, but expect the same exact loot drops a BLEEDING Edge World First raider gets, and will cry babies that will cry until the end of time over shit like No Flying and all that..

[Alvito]

Because casuals chewed up lots of time supplying some of those things for people that couldn't be assed to do it. Professions may not have been that big of a deal for most raiders, but casuals used a ton of that stuff and spent time making that stuff, or supplying that stuff to raiders that didn't want to fool with it. Casuals used to chew up lots of time on small things, but would still move ahead. In general, making things easier over time sped up not only the process for raiders, but did so negatively in a way for casual players because while it made it easier to raid, it meant that content degraded faster for casuals too. Essentially, Blizzard created its own content creation problem, and heck made it worse by taking the " work " out of everything.

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Not really sure where you are getting this idea from, its the reason gear has been a part of it from the start. LFR was Blizzards answer to destroying the casual raiding community they had created in Wrath. LFR was originally about the gear, because it was to be a progression path, and was until WoD for that group of people it was designed for.

You are a fool if you really think they were trying to destroy any category of players. The only time the gear has been part of the progression path was in DS due to the set bonuses and 3 gem slots.

[bufferunderrun]

I laugh because the fighting and bitching has been going on so long that people forget what LFR was even for and why it was even created to begin with. You are right, the whole damn thing exists because of one stupid decision. What is sad is that with MoP coming they could of changed it all back, and actually solved the problem. Can you imagine, 3 entire expansions with no LFR arguing if they hadn't have screwed that up so bad.

lfr is basically old 10 normal done by 25 peoples, but the real problem here is that most of those who hate lfr actually only hate the automated queue because it subtract decision power from the players, if blizzard tomorrow release a manual version called easy most hater would immediately vanish.

[Jtbrig7390]

Enjoy your LFR, all 2.5 million of you.

Will do

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lfr is basically old 10 normal done by 25 peoples, but the real problem here is that most of those who hate lfr actually only hate the automated queue because it subtract decision power from the players, if blizzard tomorrow release a manual version called easy most hater would immediately vanish.

100% true, the issue isn't LFR for these people. The issue is losing control over the player base. They want to be the gate keepers but now that LFR is here they can't be.

[Vash The Stampede]

lfr is basically old 10 normal done by 25 peoples, but the real problem here is that most of those who hate lfr actually only hate the automated queue because it subtract decision power from the players, if blizzard tomorrow release a manual version called easy most hater would immediately vanish.

The Queue is hated by those who participate in LFR. Particularly the dps who have to wait extremely long queue times. You will never get LFR to queue you with competent players, cause no raid will ever finish for those who are WoW challenged. Little known fact, but you can queue up with friends.

People like me hate LFR cause it devalues raiders efforts. You know, the people who take the time to learn to play their class better, and boss mechanics and what not.

It's this. This photo perfectly illustrates the core issue with LFR. There's a reason why people call it a raid for the "SPECIAL" WoW player.

[Jtbrig7390]

People like me hate LFR cause it devalues raiders efforts.

No it doesn't, it doesn't even come close to devaluing anything.

A Mythic raider's efforts is rewarded by finishing the mythic raid, Not because Joe Blow did it on easy mode. Also its a fucken video game if a feature in it really hurts your ego that much then maybe you should seek help.

Does someone buying a carry also devalue raiders? If not then your a hypocrite.

[Vash The Stampede]

A Mythic raider's efforts is rewarded by finishing the mythic raid, Not because Joe Blow did it on easy mode. Also its a fucken video game if a feature in it really hurts your ego that much then maybe you should seek help.

And what do I get for finishing a Mythic Raid? Epics I can't use in PvP without severe nerfs. Gear I will trash when the next content patch is released. And people running around the game with similar looking gear but nowhere near the effort.

Anyway, I don't seek help I seek a vanilla wow server. I accepted that this game has become Hello Kitty Island.

Does someone buying a carry also devalue raiders? If not then your a hypocrite.

Yes it does devalue the game, and also could turn into a system where the only way to group with people is to pay real money or gold.