[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Deleted]

When is a Relic without Wrath of the Ashbringer stronger than a Relic that pushes this trait? I have an 840 relic with +1 Wrath and got a 855 Relic with +1 to Might of the Templar. According to Simcraft it is still weaker than my 840 relic.
How stupid is this? -.-

I kind of doubt that. +1 Wrath is 2.5 seconds more uptime on crusade, which is not that much. I'd argue that even +5 Ilvl will be an improvement, let alone +15. Go for the higher Ilvl pretty much always. Wdps > anything else.

[Deleted]

Well, yes. I tried around a bit and with another talent setup the new relic is on par, at least according to simcraft.
Anyway, those traitbonusses are a big problem I think.

[Deleted]

Just want you to know that has been debunked by Solsacra before. The wasted holy power is not worth the faster stack building and damage loss from using JV... unless maybe on pvp if the target is stunned.

I just wrote the same thing just one page ago... why do people just ignore advice if it is given to them...

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Well, yes. I tried around a bit and with another talent setup the new relic is on par, at least according to simcraft.
Anyway, those traitbonusses are a big problem I think.

is it the only +wrath relic you have? I could understand when simcraft values the additional 2.5 second of wings very highly in order to sync the duration of the use trinkets to the crusade/wings duration.

[Deleted]

is it the only +wrath relic you have? I could understand when simcraft values the additional 2.5 second of wings very highly in order to sync the duration of the use trinkets to the crusade/wings duration.

Both of my holy relics pushed Wrath of the Ashbringer. 840+845. After changing some things the new 855 is on par/slightly stronger.

[Deleted]

Anyone else noticed that Sword of Light (+5% damage done with two handed weapons) is gone on the PTR? Are we really doing so good on live, that they need to remove/nerf that?

Might be a bug, sure hope so, because i dont think we are overpowered by any means. My dmg is up there now with the rest of the dps'ers in my guild.

[stolker]

20-21% Haste > Crit > Versa/Mastery.

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Haste will and is capping you. Crit on the other side will help you do more damage.

Retarded post. That is not how the combat system in WoW works. Stop giving this shitty advice. You should be ashamed of posting something like that with 3600 posts.

[Aribethe]

Retarded post. That is not how the combat system in WoW works. Stop giving this shitty advice. You should be ashamed of posting something like that with 3600 posts.

He may just not be aware that the GCD cap was lowered in Legion. Previously, the GCD was capped a 1s which hard capped haste to 50% for GCD capped melee classes. The GCD cap is .75s now. So, the haste cap would be 100% now.

[Kezotar]

Retarded post. That is not how the combat system in WoW works. Stop giving this shitty advice. You should be ashamed of posting something like that with 3600 posts.

I've found a simple solution for this issue.
Report the post. That's going to probably get you infracted.

What was to "Retarded" about the post?
It seems like I've got to dumb it down for you.


Haste = Reduces GCD/CD = More HPs. However, when in the bursting phases such as "Avenge" we really don't need more haste. So what ends up being the issue with TOO much haste? Well.. In burst you're not utilizing your stats to their fullest extend. Critical Strike on the other side WILL ALWAYS scale with your "Crusade" at the approximately rate of 21% haste.

So in short - Haste WILL cap you. Critical Strike wont. Obviously at 100% it will, or at rates if it diminishes. Yes, you might be getting a better rotation off with the extra haste on your NON bursting phases. That's absolutely true. HOWEVER. How much more DPS are we talking, and how much is Haste > Critical Strike at that phase? Because we do know that Critical Strike > Haste at the bursting phase, and not only by small margins however HUGE margins. Especially at 15 stacks and that's really not a concern for players to hit

5 HPs -> TV -> CS -> TV -> Ashes -> TV -> CS -> TV = 13 -> 45% Haste + 21% Haste from your stats (Excluding trinkets, heroism etc). So here we DO exclude Heroism, because with heroism your haste WILL be valued at even LESS rates. So by this you can see this silly amount of haste is TOO much. It's being undervalued at this point and Critical Strike would be MUCH more valued..


I can go on in ages. Yes, haste = increases your non bursting phase. Too much haste will end up diminishing and reduce your burst potential which will end up in DPS loss.

Was that a bit more CLEAR for you? Or would you like me to explain it even further in details.

[stolker]

Retarded about that suggestion is that static "x>y>z" stats just don't work. They work for one specific item level of gear and that's it. You're better off simming your character and checking your stat weights, because I guarantee you if I sim all characters currently posting in this thread, exactly 1% of them are going to have that stat priority you just posted. The fact that I even need to point this out to someone with 3.5k posts is absolutely ridiculous

[Torchbringer]

The fact that I even need to point this out to someone with 3.5k posts is absolutely ridiculous

Post count has nothing to do with somebodies knowledge of the game. Chill out dude, on a forum with this many users there is going to be a huge mix of player level. Normally I don't step in like this but I've seen you blow up at a few people so far and honestly it's not going to get you anywhere... just a suggestion.

[Deleted]

I can understand haste capping on crusade stacks. However with 22% haste my damage is subpar when not using crusade. With more haste i can keep up on AOE pulls with classes that have better aoe. Mythics are alot about the trash.

I get sims i understand what they are all about. I have simmed my character and it says to do 22% haste crit etc

What I am talking about is real world results and throwing it out there that there might be different ways to play then what a sim says. Stuns, having to run out having to bubble, having to position different because of stuff on the ground, knock backs etc. You lose gcd on judgement, sometimes over cap on hp, sometimes you use Have to heal yourself. I could see Divine purpose being good for aoe too in mythics, it is a little unpredictable though.

I'm not saying either way is bad or good. I was just throwing it out while playing with 31% haste, for me, I do better. Edit: especially when crusade is on cooldown.

This thing is doing my head in.

I tried both the BoW with 22% haste and the BoV with 30% haste... and i seem to do better with 30% haste. Its mind bending.
It's getting me pretty frustraded aswell because the way in wich to improve your character is so blurred. The scaling also seems pretty awful no matter what you choose.

[Deleted]

This thing is doing my head in.

I tried both the BoW with 22% haste and the BoV with 30% haste... and i seem to do better with 30% haste. Its mind bending.
It's getting me pretty frustraded aswell because the way in wich to improve your character is so blurred. The scaling also seems pretty awful no matter what you choose.

Not to worry, in a week's time Blade of Wrath fundamentally changes and you can go back to the drawing board comparing them.

[Deleted]

Not to worry, in a week's time Blade of Wrath fundamentally changes and you can go back to the drawing board comparing them.

You totally failed at consoling me! ^^

Either way i just upped my crit and am going with BoV at 22% haste. Will give that a spin tomorrow.

More fun when the patch hits. Can't wait! :/

[Deleted]

Not to worry, in a week's time Blade of Wrath fundamentally changes and you can go back to the drawing board comparing them.

either Thete is a bit salty about this change or he is just mildly trolling us.

but yeah we do have to do some figuring out here. which means: @Solsacra we call upon your wisdom again to enlighten us

[Sempere]

Hi! Does anyone know how to track Liadrins Legendary Rings buff? I want to know when it will give me the free holly power. I want something like a timer or so.

Thank you

[Deleted]

Has anyone tried out if old war pot replicates holy wrath ability? Its 10 yards and not quite sure if it counts. And well lossing 1k gold to undress/dress in front of a dummy and try it out is not exactly desirable.

[Deleted]

either Thete is a bit salty about this change or he is just mildly trolling us.

but yeah we do have to do some figuring out here. which means: @Solsacra we call upon your wisdom again to enlighten us

I would love his insight on why he is running greater judgment+ BoW with high mastery instead of the more crit based FoJ+BoV.
Would be an interesting insight. Would like to know how that is working out.

[Deleted]

Gr judge devalues crit and u would prefer to bet on mastery for both judge and finishers. For fights where u can pop cds early and before gr judge looses its self buff + when new adds keep coming in then i could see it viable ---- if u pair that with drops that lead u to high mastery values then u got the answer.

Would be quite interesting if someone could work the maths around and end up with a % of gr judge effect uptime where u could safely assume that it is worth taking over the rest picks on st and on light cleave.

[Torchbringer]

I would love his insight on why he is running greater judgment+ BoW with high mastery instead of the more crit based FoJ+BoV.
Would be an interesting insight. Would like to know how that is working out.

pretty sure that is his mythic+ gear/spec

[Gloriandus]

I'm a LFR-hero type casual, but I still try to get a good balance or priority of stats, which since launch has been Haste/Crit. I've recently seen well-known Rets going high Crit/Mastery, and letting Haste tumble down to the 18-20% range.

I've messed around with the gear I have a little bit to adjust my stats accordingly, but I've found that Haste that low makes the spec feel awful to me. Maybe the reason for this stat priority is to set up the big, hard hit, or an attempt to avoid the wasted GCDs when Crusade and Lust are going at the same time?

After testing things out, anything less than 26-27% Haste just makes combat unpleasant for me.