[Blood] Stat weights

[Twiistz]

Hi

I can't seem to find any good stat weights for AskMrRobot, (and the weight already used is weird). Anyone got something i can use ?

[Khiyone]

Unless you are optimizing for pure DPS as Blood, there is no way to get usable stat weights.

[Grishnok]

STR>=Haste>Crit>>>>>>>>Vers>=Mastery

[Khiyone]

STR>=Haste>Crit>>>>>>>>Vers>=Mastery

The OP asked for weights, not a priority. And that priority is incorrect, even if you're gearing for damage (DPS difference between crit and vers is usually quite small, and vers is much better than crit is for survivability).

[Grishnok]

The OP asked for weights, not a priority. And that priority is incorrect, even if you're gearing for damage (DPS difference between crit and vers is usually quite small, and vers is much better than crit is for survivability).

IMO crit is much better than vers seeing as how the artifact trait gives you a chance = to your crit chance to prevent an extra 8% damage. Vers will never come close to touching that since damage taken reduction is halved in value of your vers %.

[JermStudDog]

This sounds like you're missing something in the math here. Crit gives a % increased chance to take 8% less damage. It also happens to give a minor increase to parry chance as well so don't discount that.

Vers is 100% chance to take X% less damage.

Pretty sure Versatility is going to come out ahead in the damage reduction game. That said Haste >>> Crit/Vers >>> Mastery is the most realistic way to view things.

Everyone agrees haste is our most important stat. Everyone agrees Mastery is easily our worse stat. Fighting over which of the middle 2 is better is mostly a mute point due to the fact that goal #1 is to maximize haste, goal #2 is to minimize mastery, and stats on gear is too restrictive to really add anything more to it than that.

[Snuffleupagus]

Like honestly, I'm of the opinion that priority wise is still:

Haste >>>> Critical Strike > Versatility >> Mastery

Haste is obvious, and I dont see any cap in sight in current content. I would also say that instead of looking at Crit. v. Vers. in the vaccuum of a spreadsheet, we consider that it works well on the following fronts:

1. Crit % = % chance to take 8% less damage.
2. Crit rating converts to parry, which is 100% physical damage reduction when it happens.
3. Crit increases DPS, which is not trivial when you are pushing new content for your guild. More DPS = Boss dead faster. A dead boss is a survivability boost in my book. When you go into a new boss in last raids gear, pulling an extra 20k DPS could be the difference between kill and enrage.

That all said, I would also treat Versatility as "nice to have", and Mastery as AIDS.

We may hit a point in future tiers where we reach a bite point where we have enough crit. to switch to vers., but we're not really there yet.

If you overgear the content, you don't need vers. that much. If you undergear the content, squeezing out damage at a minimal (if any) reduction in survival is important, and you don't need vers. that much.

[mmimzie]

Like honestly, I'm of the opinion that priority wise is still:

Haste >>>> Critical Strike > Versatility >> Mastery

Haste is obvious, and I dont see any cap in sight in current content. I would also say that instead of looking at Crit. v. Vers. in the vaccuum of a spreadsheet, we consider that it works well on the following fronts:

1. Crit % = % chance to take 8% less damage.
2. Crit rating converts to parry, which is 100% physical damage reduction when it happens.
3. Crit increases DPS, which is not trivial when you are pushing new content for your guild. More DPS = Boss dead faster. A dead boss is a survivability boost in my book. When you go into a new boss in last raids gear, pulling an extra 20k DPS could be the difference between kill and enrage.

That all said, I would also treat Versatility as "nice to have", and Mastery as AIDS.

We may hit a point in future tiers where we reach a bite point where we have enough crit. to switch to vers., but we're not really there yet.

If you overgear the content, you don't need vers. that much. If you undergear the content, squeezing out damage at a minimal (if any) reduction in survival is important, and you don't need vers. that much.

I think this is the most on the nose statement. Though I'd probably say Crit=>Verse. Think there's not too big a distinction as the crit block isn't a super super big deal, and the flat damage drop from from verse competes well enough. PLus the Verse to my understand actually increases death strike healing.

[Saiyendra]

IMO crit is much better than vers seeing as how the artifact trait gives you a chance = to your crit chance to prevent an extra 8% damage. Vers will never come close to touching that since damage taken reduction is halved in value of your vers %.

That trait gives about 0.1% overall DR per 1% crit. It's very weak, and definitely doesn't push crit anywhere near vers' value for mitigation.

[Nnyco]

crit and versa are about the same defense wise, but crit gives waaaaay more dmg than versa ever will

[Khiyone]

crit and versa are about the same defense wise, but crit gives waaaaay more dmg than versa ever will

This is patently incorrect; it's easy to obtain a gearset where vers gives more damage than crit does (and crit is much worse than vers is defensively).

[Snuffleupagus]

This is patently incorrect; it's easy to obtain a gearset where vers gives more damage than crit does (and crit is much worse than vers is defensively).

Do you have any rationale for this statement?

[Siyalib]

This is patently incorrect; it's easy to obtain a gearset where vers gives more damage than crit does (and crit is much worse than vers is defensively).

the ideal crit to vers ratio is crit-15 = vers.. with 20 crit you want 5 vers. that ratio of crit to vers is the best damage output for a blood DK

quoted from the DK discord:
DPS breakpoints
When optimising for DPS, the following ratio of Crit and Versatility gives the highest damage output:

(1+crit%)*(1+vers%+1/400) / ((1+vers%)*(1+crit%+1/350))

If this number exceeds 1, you would gain more DPS from Versatility. If it is lower than 1, you would gain more DPS from Critical Strike rating. For example, at 15% Crit and 0% Vers, the result of the formula will give:

(1+0.15)*(1+0.00+1/400) / ((1+0.00)*(1+0.15+1/350)) = 1.0000155

This number is greater than 1, so you would gain more DPS by stacking a bit of Vers rather than Crit.

An easy-to-remember rule of thumb is that for optimal DPS output, your ideal Versatility % is approximately your Critical Strike % - 15.

With all that above being said, you need to remember that chances are you wont be able to optimize this thoroughly while stacking haste.

[Twiistz]

About gearing since we are optimizing for haste I find alot of the gear in EN to be... shit ?

[Deleted]

About gearing since we are optimizing for haste I find alot of the gear in EN to be... shit ?

All the gear from EN is actually underwhelming. You'd better off gearing with M+ dungeons, but the rng element is so strong that only players with a lot of free time could do it. Since all the EN plate pieces have a maximum of two variants, your best shot is looking what gives you more Haste and aim for it, disegarding the other secondary stat.
For trinkets, Ravaged Seed Pod is a great choice, and Spectral Echo gives a lot of haste despite having a bad passive, so you can take it.

[Grishnok]

If you think the gear in EN is shit, take a gander at the loot tables for Night hold. Almost zero haste crit gear there. And our tier gear is itemized pretty horrendously.

[Llarold]

IMO crit is much better than vers seeing as how the artifact trait gives you a chance = to your crit chance to prevent an extra 8% damage. Vers will never come close to touching that since damage taken reduction is halved in value of your vers %.

1% damage reduction from Versatility requires 800 rating. 1% damage reduction from Crit via Skeletal Shattering requires 4375 rating.
That Vers rating also provides 2% damage and healing.
Parry from Crit rating is heavily DR'ed compared to past expansions, and autoattacks only makes up 40-60% of damage taken on most raid fights.
Crit also provides no self-healing other than through Leech, which constitutes only ~20% of DK self-healing.

1% Vers costs 400 rating.
1% Crit costs 350 rating.
1% Vers contributes 1% more self-healing.
1% Crit contributes .2% more self-healing.
1% Vers contributes .5% more damage reduction.
1% Crit contributes .08% more damage reduction.

Their defensive values per point are not remotely close.

[Radaney]

Everyone says Mastery for some reason.

[Llarold]

Everyone says Mastery for some reason.

Mastery is worth a good bit less healing and damage reduction than Versatility, and both contribute pretty poorly to damage.
The one advantage Mastery has presently is that once you have enough, your Blood Shields can protect more Bone Shield charges per Death Strike cast. That is fairly huge, but in EN gear we don't really have enough secondary stats to accomplish that effectively.

[Deleted]

Mastery is worth a good bit less healing and damage reduction than Versatility, and both contribute pretty poorly to damage.
The one advantage Mastery has presently is that once you have enough, your Blood Shields can protect more Bone Shield charges per Death Strike cast. That is fairly huge, but in EN gear we don't really have enough secondary stats to accomplish that effectively.

The exact number of enough Mastery is zero. Avoid Mastery as much as you can. Just take haste/crit or haste/vers as much as you can. Even if it would be possible to stack mastery so high that a Bloodshield would last one Auto attack from a Boss it would not be worth it because you would lose so much haste.