Is the majority of people just plain awful at WoW?

[Deleted]

Problems arise when the groups 3-5 mix and that is basically unavoidable. Blizzard continues to try to present each group with different content through different difficulties (normal, heroic, mythic, M+ etc.), but especially with (semi-)automated grouping systems, these players will always meet each other - causing friction and problems o all sides.

Nice Analysis, though I would argue that there are more than those 5 archetypes of players, but some generalization can't hurt in deducting the Player base, I guess.

But you are 100% Spot on with the Quote, grouping different playertypes together is one huge part of the problem. For example, we have nice guy in our Guild, plays his feral druid very casually, mostly just 2-3 nights a week. He is cool with his (lack of) skill, he doesn't really want to do any challenging content, just to relax on the few nights he has time to play; basically just unwinding after some hard days of work, and shooting the shit in Voice Chat.

But my Guildleader is dead-set on to drag him through mythic + runs, and our normal/hc Raids. Of course this leads to some tension, because he is really subpar, he barely does any damage (well below 150 k both on ST&AOE), dies from easy/avoidable mechanics and doesn't use his interrupts. Personally, I don't mind carrying him through my lower mythic+ Runs, or on our normal Raids (and some easy hc encounters), since his dead weight isn't really holding us back. My GM on the other hand is being a passive-agressive bitch about it . Well, guess that comes with being pregnant, lol.

Is there a solution to this dilemma, if even in Guilds it can happen? I guess you even have to form your own circle of players in your guild. And avoid PuG's. For the love of god, don't ever PuG.

[Deleted]

I dont know im just still salty that my friend who literally got to 110 2 days ago got her first legendary in 4 emissaries and me who's done every single one since launch + mythics/hcs and everything in between still don't have one. I wouldn't bother me so much because the legendary is supposed to be like icing on the cake right?

Well not when people demand you have them for raiding. Good god in heaven what have i done to deserve this. Cba to search for decent people who get it anymore

But other than that legion has been amazing for me so far, a great departure from the lul of WoD.

As for people being bad... well yes i suppose. I mean there won't be a single day were me and my friends won't complain about useless people in BG's or whatever. ( We complain amongst our selves, we arn't those people that spams the bg chat with useless whining.) But i mean i get it also, maybe people are to lazy to try or something, like me IRL xD

Wow im ranting and im offtopic but ive written to much to give up now, sorry!

[Deleted]

Is there a solution to this dilemma, if even in Guilds it can happen? I guess you even have to form your own circle of players in your guild. And avoid PuG's. For the love of god, don't ever PuG.

Easy solution, kick your GL out.

[Deleted]

I guess you're pretty young but the majority of people are awful at everything. I don't mean that a static 99% of people are bad at everything and the other 1% are great at it. I mean if you take any activity not vital for living (eg. breathing or eating) the majority of people on the planet will be crap at it.

That's not how anything works. Life is a collection of Bell curves. The majority of people are mediocre at something.

Among the entire WoW population, the majority is just average at what they do. You have a minority that excels at it and another minority that is absolutely horrible.

Most people I pug with are average. However, the community calls them bad because they do not fit the performance standards set by the Mythic Raider minority. A tank who pulls 1 pack at a time isn't a bad tank. He's a cautious tank, perhaps getting a feel for the quality of his group. He's deliberate and thoughtful.
A bad tank would overpull, not keep his AM up, not use cooldowns, not taunt wandering mobs, not position the boss effectively, etc.

[Sesshomaru]

Tried pugging Mythic EoA (alas, no keystone version) for the mythic quest; the other two DPS zerged the boss all the time while I did the dps equal to both theirs. The tank (although horribly geared) CCed the 2nd add all the time, yet the other dps completely ignored the 2nd add and didn't drop the spear throw at the add; they collected spears if anything.
People just aren't reading about the abilities/strategy of the boss fights and/or not thinking about anything but ZOMG I NEEDZ MOAR DPSURS.

I'd rather take people who interrupt/silence/CC/have a brain yet doing 50k less than one who tunnels everything into the bosses.
Except Shadow Priests (with StM), their tunneling is allowed.

[Flurryfang]

This is not a whine thread, but more like a debate on people and their skills.

Let me tell you about my legion experience so far.
I'm not a raider in this expansion, but i do still play a lot, and only do dungeons/mythic plus.
Through my travels i've found that random people i meet are generally incredible bad at this game, why is this?
Some of the common mistakes is people not using their cds, unless on bosses. so they sit on something like combustion for 5-10 minutes because "trash" is not worth it....even if i pull 3 packs as a tank, still no cds on many ppl.
Additionally some random heroics i queue up as dps on my crazy aoe fire mage. i get in see a tank 3.6m hp. about 860 ilvl, and he pulls single packs in heroics. I cry inside when i see that srsly.
Me and my friend a pala tank and me on my mage, we were 845 when we had the worst case in this expansion, we were in group with a 866 retri, a 854 hunter and some healer. Now these are 20 and 10 ilvls above us respectively, then how come we did a combined 81% of all the damage in that BRH HC?
It wasn't until after the dungeon i really noticed, i sat back in my chair in shock.
There's countless examples just like that. just tried a +3 BRH. all dps were 850+ and none of them did more than 215k dps on trash packs, even big ones. like wtf?

I see people in the premade grp system asking "865 ilvl for 175k dps" What the actual fuck? Today i did EN norm on my 852 mage and did about 260k on ursoc. I don't want to brag and i don't consider myself a pro player, but just a thinking human being, trying to optimise my play.

Enough ranting from me, what do you think? Is this generally the level of performance to be expected from people in this game? Are 95% of players just plain awful?
And if so where can i find some decent people to play with, who are not awful?

It is not natural for players to optimize. I, for example, am doing 230k on my rogue atm. I think that is good for the content, which i do and therefore i don't really think about what gear i get and i play the way, which is like. Some other rogues might call me bad for not going crit/mastery on my assa rogue, but i enjoy having alot of haste, so that is the way i play So i raids, when people are just above the bar of acceptable, many people just like to enjoy themself and play the way which they enjoy, which is maybe not the most optimized way.

Now, outside of raiding, i really don't see alot of bad people. I very rarely fail in dungeons, both mythic and mythic+, and people are kind and helpfull in the open world. So i don't meet the same problem with bad players as you are

[Compstance]

I've always said that anyone who is "bad" at WoW just isn't trying.

I mean, seriously, the game isn't demanding at all. You don't need amazing reflexes. You don't need extreme multi-tasking. You don't need a wealth of built up muscle memory. You don't need to be particularly fast, accurate, or anything else. You don't even need a particuarly large body of knowledge. It's a very slow, very simple game.

So yeah, if someone is just plain not performing at all, then they're just not trying. There really are no other options (outside of some handicap or something).

Pretty much this. Especially in Legion, you can simply read over your tooltips and get a solid grasp on how to play your character, whereas previously you'd need to read guides, etc. to fully understand what and how to use your abilities.

It's one reason I don't understand people who get so arrogant about this "pro" and "casual" bullshit. Being a solid tank, healer or DPS isn't an amazing feat, it just means you're doing what you are SUPPOSED to be doing. And when you can play your character to the fullest and still have time to type in chat, you know the game is a simple one. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I play WoW for that reason, to have a simple game to sit back and zone out on. That doesn't mean I sit around and do nothing, it just means that I know how to play my class and fulfill my role, I do it, and it's simple to do.

Getting all up in arms because you're a "pro" player with all these "plebs" doesn't mean you're doing something special, it just means you're doing exactly what the game intends you to do. Just because other people do it wrong doesn't mean you're doing anything special.

[tratra]

The problem with this expansion is the RNG gearing & boosting. Everyone and their grandmother is being boosted in Mythic + and curve groups so they all have high ilvl/achievements but are not as experienced in refining their role like you get a lot of people doing, min/maxing etc I for one am not one of those people. I get a brief hint at what I should be looking for gear wise and just go with the flow.

You have to remember the majority of the playerbase will be classed as simply players who want to have fun and casuals but the high increase in gear obtainable means its harder to see through the veil at who are the better players in among the pool.



I sometimes join a random heroic for a WQ/Satchel and I'll start pulling small packs as usual, I've just joined and met these people so I don't know their skill or gear. If things die very fast I'll likely end up pulling additional packs to speed the process up, however pulling 3-4 packs just because that particular tank is geared may put strain on your healer keeping the group alive and cause deaths.

So I for example judge each group as and when I play with them, I won't pull the entire dungeon just because I am geared far better than the dungeon provides. Not every tank is leeroy jenkins just because he has the gear

not 100% boosted. Its just so easy to gain gear in general. And clearing HC in a pug is easy as well.

I mean a lot of guilds will whine at my post but its true, its very easy to get "boosted" if you join up a random pug that does ok. Eventually most of the pugs that run HC clear it, it might take them the whole day to do it, but they will. Also random lucky drops etc titanforges ye they bring people up to the ilvl.

I joined a random mythic+7 yesterday leader was asking for 3 chests. Everyone of us was close to 880 and 2 people over 880. Leader says flask etc no voice com is not needed... whatever. He pulls 3 packs together... then at some point he is like "WTF healer idiot heal me" ... am like "hey dude you know that the 2nd affix is necrotic right and you have like 60 stacks of it on you"... He stopped talking for a bit, then the whole time he wasn't reseting his stacks properly... and typing all the time "healer use vortex idiot"... like am not using it and like it doesnt have a CD at all lol. We reach the final room on VOTW he takes light etc he goes to a corner and says glide from here... we glide boom pulled ALL the adds. We die all together he says "use vortex..." I am like there are like 100+ spiders then I just left.

What I want to say this tank was 875ilvl and he was just... bad, and not only bad as in being a bad player, he was TOXIC. Its odd but I usually check achievements instead of ilvl thing is with this stupid naming system that blizzard has with the dots etc the scandi keyboard thing, I can't search armory for players like that and its annoying.

[Faenskap]

Notice how you quoted me saying sarcasm and mean comments and you somehow derived yelling from that.
I'd very calmly tell you, "hey, don't stand in the bad"
You stood in the bad and died, i'd call you a moron for standing in the bad. People think they respond to non hostile commentary, but they don't.

Also; @iluwen_de hit the nail on the head. No matter my current progression level I'm always a #3 type.

and see

I generally join random heroic 5mans, do the absolute most dps I can/tank as efficiently/heal as efficiently as I can and never say a word. When I get people offensively bad in non random group content, I'd politely ask them to not be shit. And by offensively bad, I'm talking like walking into extra packs (constantly), doing bad dps, not using class abilities like bloodlust/interrupts, standing in fire and dying repeatedly, etc. And if their play doesn't improve, they get cursed out the 2nd/3rd time and booted at the 4th. I don't think that's unreasonable, at all. Mind you, I mostly run with guildies/friends and pug a last spot if needed, and if you want to stay in my/our group, the nonchalance and horrible play will get you booted. I'm no hypocrite, so I'd expect the same when I join someone elses group. Don't want to play the way the group you joined is playing? Leave.

That's because some people don't tell the rest of the group anything in a calm manner, it's straight to the mean comments/yelling. I will try to paraphrase what happened in a group some days ago. We were on Gazer/Glazer(?), Eye guy in VotW. We had a reasonably well geared dps with us. When the boss did the Beam thing, someone apparently made a mistake. Was it me? Someone else? I honestly don't know. Boss still went down without any issue. The dps then goes:
"tard"
"who the fuck was that"
"idiot"
"retard"
"ur getting boosted here just stfu!" (haha!)

something along those lines.

Nothing calm there at all. Again, I don't mind constructive critisism, but such comments aren't helpful at all, and they weren't exactly told in a calm manner. These people aren't pleasant to be around, and it's them I'm talking about. And my issue are with those people who think they're the shit when the only thing close to being the shit is their attitude without the definite article

[Daedelus]

Two things - high item level gear is not necessarily the best choice for most, if not all, classes/specs this expansion. Classic example is fire mages for whom Crit is god. An 835 can often be better than, say, a 860.

Bad UI - if you aren't able to keep proper track of CDs/buffs/DoTs etc, you will underperform.

[kary]

That's because some people don't tell the rest of the group anything in a calm manner, it's straight to the mean comments/yelling. I will try to paraphrase what happened in a group some days ago. We were on Gazer/Glazer(?), Eye guy in VotW. We had a reasonably well geared dps with us. When the boss did the Beam thing, someone apparently made a mistake. Was it me? Someone else? I honestly don't know. Boss still went down without any issue. The dps then goes:
"tard"
"who the fuck was that"
"idiot"
"retard"
"ur getting boosted here just stfu!" (haha!)

something along those lines.

Nothing calm there at all. Again, I don't mind constructive critisism, but such comments aren't helpful at all, and they weren't exactly told in a calm manner. These people aren't pleasant to be around, and it's them I'm talking about. And my issue are with those people who think they're the shit when the only thing close to being the shit is their attitude without the definite article

Noone owes you "constructive" criticism.
Noone owes you anything, really. Lol. Sure, you'd react better to less negative reviews, but that's your problem, not mine.

[Granyala]

Yes, in most MMOs the vast majority of the playerbase is pretty much incompetent to an absolutely ridiculous degree.

I don't expect randoms to do top level DPS while dancing to the boss (as it is not required outside of M raiding anyway).
I do expect them to be able to move out of funky stuff or handle a boss mechanic after I explained it to them in detail.
But sadly, reading seems to be about as hard as dodging colored circles on the ground.

Sometimes, I sit there wondering just how these people get through a day in real life w/o having massive problems.

[Lioo]

It is just a game. Be friendly and pay more attention to the things you do and how you do them if you want to improve.
If you can not, just delete damage meter, you will find out that the people are not that bad after all.
P.S. I can not understand people, who use LFG tool and expect to have super cool mythic skilled raiders there. No, you won't get them like 99% of your runs, because they do not need LFG tool.
P.S.S. What you have done to make average LFR/LFG player better? Linked Curve/Edge, told him that he sucks in the game and you have never seen such a retarded player ever? Good job, maybe you ruined his spare time after the hard day of work, continue with this.

[Granyala]

Noone owes you "constructive" criticism.
Noone owes you anything, really. Lol. Sure, you'd react better to less negative reviews, but that's your problem, not mine.

Umm.. ever heard of the terms "common decency" or "courtesy"?

If you adress a failing random with "OMG L2P you retard/idiot!" you are not only insulting the person (which is unacceptable in any video game), you are also make him close up. Any further explanations/tips will fall on deaf ears.

Just point out his mistakes in a calm, stoic but direct manner. (think: Vulkan) If he doesn't listen, feel free to rage behind your monitor, but don't go around insulting people. Makes you look like a raging child instead of a professional player.

[Deleted]

Yes, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. People play this game for different reasons.

Agree. Often can see people performing at a level i did not imagine possible to stay so low nor can i explain how exactly they do that. But as i am rarely concerned with players outside my guild i can let them be for they seem to enjoy the game, no reason to bother

[Granyala]

It is just a game. Be friendly and pay more attention to the things you do and how you do them if you want to improve.

I cannot do that if I wipe due to other players mistakes.

This is a GROUP ACTIVITY. The mindset "it's just a game" stops working as soon as you start playing content with other people that demands a certain competence (M+ Dungeons or H/M Raids).
If you want the "it's just a game" thing: single players and LFR are -> that way.
Do not be impolite and waste 19/4 other people's time.

[Lulbalance]

"Is Are the majority of people just plain awful at WoW?"

Probably the same ballpark % as the number of people who can't handle basic sentence structure and grammar.

[kary]

Umm.. ever heard of the terms "common decency" or "courtesy"?

If you adress a failing random with "OMG L2P you retard/idiot!" you are not only insulting the person (which is unacceptable in any video game), you are also make him close up. Any further explanations/tips will fall on deaf ears.

Just point out his mistakes in a calm, stoic but direct manner. (think: Vulkan) If he doesn't listen, feel free to rage behind your monitor, but don't go around insulting people. Makes you look like a raging child instead of a professional player.

see

Noone owes you "constructive" criticism.
Noone owes you anything, really.

Yeah, you attract more bees with honey. You also attract more flies with shit. ymmv.
Also see : entitlement. You aren't entitled to people treating you "nice"

[Amerissis]

Noone owes you "constructive" criticism.
Noone owes you anything, really. Lol. Sure, you'd react better to less negative reviews, but that's your problem, not mine.

Really? This is how you live your life? Why?

[Deleted]

"Is Are the majority of people just plain awful at WoW?"

Probably the same ballpark % as the number of people who can't handle basic sentence structure and grammar.

What if I told you, that for a lot (most?) of the people here, English is not their native language?

Pathetic post that added absolutely nothing to the topic. Get lost, please!