Ass PvP - I feel like a retard

[Deleted]

Recently every random bg and skirmish I play I lose, my gear sucks 835 ilvl because I have work, but I have specced everything correctly, and in PvP your gear "shouldn't matter" right? I used to be amazing at a rogue, now I die in 2 seconds even with feint and I have no fucking energy at all, constantly energy starved and my damage sucks.

Then I read topics about people saying rogues are OP as fuck and Assassination does the most damage, I have more fun on my MM hunter level 104, I can spray and pray then run away when people go for me and nearly always top damage and KBs.

[Grizvok]

Uh of course gear matters.

[Deleted]

Uh of course gear matters.

Why when you have PvP templates and the devs said gear improvements won't make much difference unlike before?

[Grizvok]

The difference is smaller than it used to be for sure, but an average of 30 item level on each piece of gear is still going to be pretty big.

Probably more important is how many honor talents you have.

[Tincho87]

Recently every random bg and skirmish I play I lose, my gear sucks 835 ilvl because I have work, but I have specced everything correctly, and in PvP your gear "shouldn't matter" right? I used to be amazing at a rogue, now I die in 2 seconds even with feint and I have no fucking energy at all, constantly energy starved and my damage sucks.

Then I read topics about people saying rogues are OP as fuck and Assassination does the most damage, I have more fun on my MM hunter level 104, I can spray and pray then run away when people go for me and nearly always top damage and KBs.

No, you're not a retard. Rogue assa has become a retardmongoloid spec. Just target the healer dont waste shadowstep neither your kick and do your "PVE" rotation, "He blinked away? you just throw a knife proc your cripple poison and do your thing", "he blinked again? or land a stun on you and ran far away? Shadowstep that b*tch and do your thing" "you're slowed? Maneuverability > Sprint" you will eventually kill the healer alone, if you do your thing correctly. That's why i call assa so retard, it is not like good ol' times when rogues had the utility-control and some sort of dmg in the same spec. I loved assa/mutilate in LK except the time i got full wrathful and went for Shadow Dance, since then i been playing a lot of subtlety and i cant really understand why blizzard did this to my first love spec (just like combat rogues in WoD, waiting till red buff and KS)
Just, garrote>2x mutilate>Rupture>mfd>Kidney Shot (at this time you'll have like 0 energy)>Vendetta>Exanguinate>Artifact (and youll have full energy and a crazy regeneration from exanguinate)
Last but not least. assa rogue pvp is meant to play 3s or 2s with a healer... you will have bad times in 2s DPS, because you dont have any defensive or any control like subtlety or outlaw's insane blind CD reduction to peel... you just click your enemy healer and go forward, that's why you need a babysitter healer to save you while you stab and scratch and poison your target.
Go for 2/2/3/2/3/3/2 in talents. And 0/0/1/3/1/3 in honor talents.

[Soisoisoi]

The difference is smaller than it used to be for sure, but an average of 30 item level on each piece of gear is still going to be pretty big.

Probably more important is how many honor talents you have.

A whopping 30 item level overall is... 3%. It's nothing. You being lucky and getting an extra crit or two will make up for the amount that gives. Making mistakes will be a LOT more than 3%.

E: FWIW, next week with 7.1, Blizzard are making PvP gear more easily obtainable

In Patch 7.1, every Battleground or Rated Battleground victory will reward a piece of gear. Losses will also have a chance to reward gear based on the final score of the match, and Skirmish and Arena victories will have an increased chance to drop gear.
[...]
In Patch 7.1, each bracket of rated PvP (2v2, 3v3, Rated Battlegrounds) has a weekly quest that rewards items based on your best rating from the previous week
[...]
Here is an example listing of the rating-to-item level breakdown for Season 1:

Last Week's Rating	Base Item Level
0 - 1399	840
1400 - 1599	850
1600 - 1799	860
1800 - 1999	865
2000 - 2199	870
2200 - 2399	875
2400+	880

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/7...s-in-patch-71/

[Grizvok]

A whopping 30 item level overall is... 3%. It's nothing. You being lucky and getting an extra crit or two will make up for the amount that gives. Making mistakes will be a LOT more than 3%.

E: FWIW, next week with 7.1, Blizzard are making PvP gear more easily obtainable

In Patch 7.1, every Battleground or Rated Battleground victory will reward a piece of gear. Losses will also have a chance to reward gear based on the final score of the match, and Skirmish and Arena victories will have an increased chance to drop gear.
[...]
In Patch 7.1, each bracket of rated PvP (2v2, 3v3, Rated Battlegrounds) has a weekly quest that rewards items based on your best rating from the previous week
[...]
Here is an example listing of the rating-to-item level breakdown for Season 1:

Last Week's Rating	Base Item Level
0 - 1399	840
1400 - 1599	850
1600 - 1799	860
1800 - 1999	865
2000 - 2199	870
2200 - 2399	875
2400+	880

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/7...s-in-patch-71/

Is that how it works? I construed what I read as them comparing two pieces of gear one 25 ilvls higher than the next where that single piece of stronger gear was 2.5% stronger overall. Then when you add up that difference among each piece of gear that's pretty significant. I didn't take it to mean what you said but then again I never PvP so I'm probably wrong.

[Rucati]

Is that how it works? I construed what I read as them comparing two pieces of gear one 25 ilvls higher than the next where that single piece of stronger gear was 2.5% stronger overall. Then when you add up that difference among each piece of gear that's pretty significant. I didn't take it to mean what you said but then again I never PvP so I'm probably wrong.

Nah if you open up your character sheet and see your Item Level it goes off that. So if your item level overall is 820 and you fight someone with 850 overall item level it's only 3% difference. It's relevant, but not huge or anything.

[The7]

I don't know much about PVP, but the energy regen talents really help when you're not used to the spec, and the dps loss isn't that significant.

[Rucati]

I don't know much about PVP, but the energy regen talents really help when you're not used to the spec, and the dps loss isn't that significant.

You should always take the energy regen talents, there isn't even another good alternative for PvP as Assassination.

[Deleted]

Go for 2/2/3/2/3/3/2 in talents. And 0/0/1/3/1/3 in honor talents.

disagree, alacrity and venom rush in 2v2 are good

[Rucati]

disagree, alacrity and venom rush in 2v2 are good

Alacrity is trash, you're giving up way way too much damage from Exsan to warrant taking Alacrity.

Venom Rush is always best unless you're against a Ret Pally.

[Deleted]

Alacrity is trash, you're giving up way way too much damage from Exsan to warrant taking Alacrity.

Venom Rush is always best unless you're against a Ret Pally.

both pshero and whaaz seem to be doing good with alacrity in 2v2s with dpriest/rdruid@2500

[shoegazing]

No, you're not a retard. Rogue assa has become a retardmongoloid spec. Just target the healer dont waste shadowstep neither your kick and do your "PVE" rotation, "He blinked away? you just throw a knife proc your cripple poison and do your thing", "he blinked again? or land a stun on you and ran far away? Shadowstep that b*tch and do your thing" "you're slowed? Maneuverability > Sprint" you will eventually kill the healer alone, if you do your thing correctly. That's why i call assa so retard, it is not like good ol' times when rogues had the utility-control and some sort of dmg in the same spec. I loved assa/mutilate in LK except the time i got full wrathful and went for Shadow Dance, since then i been playing a lot of subtlety and i cant really understand why blizzard did this to my first love spec (just like combat rogues in WoD, waiting till red buff and KS)
Just, garrote>2x mutilate>Rupture>mfd>Kidney Shot (at this time you'll have like 0 energy)>Vendetta>Exanguinate>Artifact (and youll have full energy and a crazy regeneration from exanguinate)
Last but not least. assa rogue pvp is meant to play 3s or 2s with a healer... you will have bad times in 2s DPS, because you dont have any defensive or any control like subtlety or outlaw's insane blind CD reduction to peel... you just click your enemy healer and go forward, that's why you need a babysitter healer to save you while you stab and scratch and poison your target.
Go for 2/2/3/2/3/3/2 in talents. And 0/0/1/3/1/3 in honor talents.

this

also, re: alacrity, it's really comp/bracket dependent. in 2s with a healer where you are killing with sustain pressure and can expect the match to be long enough to reach a 20 stack and get good value out of it, alacrity is amazing. in 3s with e.g. arcane mage where it's less about bursty setups and more about doing mongoloid pve damage, it's also a good choice. but for shorter matches or matches/comps where you expect to kill strictly in kidney shot windows, exsanguinate is of course superior

[Rucati]

both pshero and whaaz seem to be doing good with alacrity in 2v2s with dpriest/rdruid@2500

Doesn't make it good. They only use it because of specific reasons, mainly because at that rating you're just playing til a side goes oom or dampening hits 50%, and at that point more consistent damage is better than the burst. But at lower ratings, or in any other PvP situation, you wouldn't need or want extra haste.

[Nythiz]

Recently every random bg and skirmish I play I lose, my gear sucks 835 ilvl because I have work, but I have specced everything correctly, and in PvP your gear "shouldn't matter" right? I used to be amazing at a rogue, now I die in 2 seconds even with feint and I have no fucking energy at all, constantly energy starved and my damage sucks.

Then I read topics about people saying rogues are OP as fuck and Assassination does the most damage, I have more fun on my MM hunter level 104, I can spray and pray then run away when people go for me and nearly always top damage and KBs.

First of all. Gear matters, but not a whole lot. Blizz said that every item level is about 0.1% more damage/health. So if you're 30 ilvls behind that should be 3%. In drawn out rated arena fights this can make a difference, but in general it shouldn't.

Assassination is a really strong spec right now, but you have to see the context of it. It's mostly strong in 3v3 arena where you can put really solid sustained pressure but also very high burst damage through Vendetta and Exsanguinate. On top of that you have several tools to disengage and/or reduce damage, which means you'll not just instantly die if focused.

Without a healer in e.g. BGs you still have a lot of damage but without the healing you'll have a much harder time staying alive. You have to be really smart with your defensive cooldowns and pick your fights.
BGs are generally messy (if not premade) and people tend to look for the nearest squishy targets, which generally are rogues. They're less likely to go for the MM hunter 40 yards away, as they'll likely be taken out before they even get there. As MM you also see them coming, so it's easier to reposition yourself. As rogue you could just get HoJ'ed and die before the stun wears out. That's the life of rogues though.

Talent choices (both regular and honor) make a really big difference as well. Although there are several options, especially if you prefer to play BGs, so don't be fooled into just copy pasting a cookie cutter arena spec if you can make better use of different talents.
E.g. I've seen all 3 100 talents used (though mostly MfD and DfA) regularily; same with T30 Nightstalker and Subterfuge and T15 MP/EP/Hemo.
And with the honor talents, Unfair Advantage is super strong; but Honor Among Thieves might have a place if you're near group fights a lot.

You should always take the energy regen talents, there isn't even another good alternative for PvP as Assassination.

Generally not, but Venom Rush might be the exception.

disagree, alacrity and venom rush in 2v2 are good

I'm not sure how Alacrity would be superior to having an extra burst/energy regen cooldown with Exsanguinate. Unless you're in very stretched out arena games.
The T100 line really depends on your comp and what you play as well. Venom Rush is probably best for most arena. But I can see some 2s go for DfA, and for BGs I think MfD is really good as well.

[lolpve]

Assassination is op in arena with a healer, if you're just screwing around in random bgs then of course you can get screwed over since you have limited control or escapes. It plays more like a warrior in how the spec needs babysitting. Sub and outlaw are much better in random bgs.

[Rucati]

Generally not, but Venom Rush might be the exception.

Venom Rush isn't the exception, it's literally the only energy regen talent we have aside from Alacrity which doesn't count because it's trash for Assassin and PvP in general.

But I can see some 2s go for DfA, and for BGs I think MfD is really good as well.

I don't see how DfA would ever be a worthwhile PvP talent, it doesn't do enough damage to make up for the fact that you're basically CCing yourself during the animation.

MfD would be good in BGs and it would be good against Ret Paladins since Venom Rush doesn't work anyway.

[Tincho87]

disagree, alacrity and venom rush in 2v2 are good

It's just points of view, i saw a lot of rogues using AP too. But if you're going dps-healer in a 2v2 you're expecting to play an arena for like 5 min or more. Things that you could easily find in high rates, but not in low elo, melee cleaves are always or almost always blowing all their cds in one target, and ww monks, rets pallys, dks frost, DHs, ferals, enha shammies does a freaking lot of damage while you stay in the same place and rogues assa has one of the best pressure honor talent in the game imo (system shock's mobility reduction it's just insane). Ret pally (this class can do 1mill dmg in 4 targets at the same time with just one GCD, i call holy wrath BS) + [any melee class] can explode you in just one stun if you dont have trinket. That's why i told him to go exangn and mfd, you can easily make their healer to pop all of his cds in an instant, and you'll have the advantage of the match. Obviously, we dont have the same taste, but i found this talent spec useful in low rates arenas where everyone is going spray and pray around the field.