Germany shootings: Four police officers shot by 'far-right extremist'

[Deleted]

Easily, see... right wing extremists are usually connected to racism and anti-semitism.

Yes, because ISIS is not racist and Anti-semitic.

The last time they got their hands on some power, well, you know what happened.

The last time the communists got hand of power they killed orders of magnitude more people.
(oh also as reminder, they are not out of power yet ).
Almost forgot.

you know, the dudes that brutalize people to death on the street for having the wrong skin colour. Literally. They've done these assaults for decades, while islamists have only really started to become a European problem within the last few years. They'd have to continue being a problem for a long, long time before they're in the same league as right wing extremists.

Yes these people are not violent nutjobs No - Of course there are always these people.

Another thing that makes them more dangerous, they have access to political tools. Islamists usually do not. While both may be violent, only one of them has the permanent option and opportunity to gain real power that could do some real damage.

They don't have political influence?

And it's sheep like the forum dwellers here that are always in danger of enabling the return of the evil.

It hasn't left.

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Yes, they are. Relative numbers aren't suited for an argument about absolute numbers just because they fit you better. Kangodo wasn't talking about trends or growing dangers.

They are one and the same thing.

Besides, right wing extremists are the bigger danger in Germany or anywhere else for that matter.

Absolute numbers absolutely disagrees with him.
1,608 is greater than 1,408.
and 990 is also smaller than 995.

[Slant]

Yes, because ISIS is not racist and Anti-semitic.

The last time the communists got hand of power they killed orders of magnitude more people.
(oh also as reminder, they are not out of power yet ).
Almost forgot.


Yes these people are not violent nutjobs No - Of course there are always these people.


They don't have political influence?


It hasn't left.

You're losing yourself in a semantics battle that leads nowhere. Even if I concede that you are right, this isn't the topic. The topic was right wing violence vs. ISIS. We know how to deal with our domestic idiots, it's the foreign idiots that are puzzling us at the moment. As far as who's worse, we know our own are worse. Want to know why? Cos Germans usually know how to do their shit properly. So when they try to fuck the country up, they create political parties and sneak and bullshit their way into actual positions of power where they can do some real damage.

Nobody gives two fucks about a random guy beaten to death on the street as soon as the news headlines are forgotten. But they do care about policy set by the Government. And Die Linke just like AfD are a problem. The latter even more so, because they hide right-extreme ideologies among regular anti-EU sentiments. That is dangerous. That both extremisms are bad is clear to everyone and no normal person even has an interest in deciding who of the two biggest idiocies is the worse. So let's stop the discussion right here, otherwise I'll bomb you with a shitton of articles stating the exact opposite of what you're saying and you'll quote yet another dozen bullshit articles and so on and so forth, we both know how this usually goes...

[Choda]

So what OP is telling me is that a guy didn't do anything until the government declared him mentally unstable for unspecified reasons (and no, being part of any political movement, no matter how much you don't like it, is not a valid reason) and tried to crack down into his home? If they simply didn't go there this news story wouldn't even exist.

Yes, they are. Relative numbers aren't suited for an argument about absolute numbers just because they fit you better. Kangodo wasn't talking about trends or growing dangers.

There are absolute numbers right there in the post. Left-wing is still higher.

That's not the topic atm as the left wing is rather quiet these days, even if statistics show otherwise.

"It's not as bad as you say it is, even though it is"

That's willful ignorance if I ever saw it.

[nextormento]

no normal person even has an interest in deciding who of the two biggest idiocies is the worse.

I agree with the sentiment.
But this is exactly what sparked the exchange: is there much of a difference between "bigger danger" and "worse idiocy"?. Not really. They're both dangerous on different scopes: one has a political arm, the other operates entirely unchecked and unpredictably outside of politics and legislation. The comparison itself is idiotic.
And that's as far as jihadist terrorism/violence/extremism goes. The claim is right wing nuts are a bigger danger; that ignores the left wing nuts, who also have political arms, and are generally the ones with a bigger tally of incidents.
The comparison is silly. The claim is false.

The disconnection is made perfectly clear with this statement of yours

the left wing is rather quiet these days, even if statistics show otherwise

How are they quiet?. They're not, and statistics shows that. You're just less concerned about it for whatever reason.

[Slant]

"It's not as bad as you say it is, even though it is"

That's willful ignorance if I ever saw it.

If you want to butt in and start throwing around big words, it helps to know how this all started... just saying.

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I agree with the sentiment.
But this is exactly what sparked the exchange: is there much of a difference between "bigger danger" and "worse idiocy"?. Not really. They're both dangerous on different scopes: one has a political arm, the other operates entirely unchecked and unpredictably outside of politics and legislation. The comparison itself is idiotic.
And that's as far as jihadist terrorism/violence/extremism goes. The claim is right wing nuts are a bigger danger; that ignores the left wing nuts, who also have political arms, and are generally the ones with a bigger tally of incidents.
The comparison is silly. The claim is false.

Bigger danger than what? You compare against a specific. That's not ignoring the left wing nuts. Nobody was talking about left wing extremism, because they aren't as prominent these days. That someone butts in to a discussion that tries to put a scope on how bad these Reichsbürger are in comparison to the ISIS claim made earlier with a statement like "But the left wing is the worst of all!" is not only off topic, it's childish. Yes, we're all totally impressed with that knowledge and the dropping of a few random quotes and statistics, but that was not what we were talking about.

[Mayhem]

If there is no 'right' to own a gun in Germany how the FUCK did he get them legally? (I know reading is hard, really hard, but you should try it anyway)

Wait, wait, do you think you can only own something legally if there is a right saying so?

I can legally own a gun in austria, there is no right to own a gun in austria. These things aren´t mutually exclusive.

So YOU should be judged by your associations? Got it... Buckle up sunshine, its gonna be bumpy.

Of course, you shouldn´t be solely judged by your associations though.

[Slant]

There is a saying in Germany (adopted from a Greek saying I just read! Smart guys those Greeks): Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are. Judging by association has a long tradition here. Surround yourself with right-wing extremists and you can deny being a nazi all day long, I'll still call you a nazi.

[Deleted]

There is a saying in Germany (adopted from a Greek saying I just read! Smart guys those Greeks): Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are. Judging by association has a long tradition here. Surround yourself with right-wing extremists and you can deny being a nazi all day long, I'll still call you a nazi.

So why did you have a problem with me doing the same when people use white supremacist terms?

[Slant]

So why did you have a problem with me doing the same when people use white supremacist terms?

It's a saying, dear. Don't get hung up on it unless you've spent some time behind the philosophical idea behind it. It doesn't work the way you think it does. It means that your friends are a reflection of your own mindset. It suggests that circles tend to emphasize ideologies within themselves and thus expose you.

You, on the other hand, prejudice against anyone saying "anti-white" without caring about things like context or association at all.

[nextormento]

Bigger danger than what? You compare against a specific.
Nobody was talking about left wing extremism, because they aren't as prominent these days.

I think I was pretty clear that comparison are idiotic. If you want to make the comparison, you're the one that needs to bring the rationale, not me. So far, your rationale to justify the comparison (being supported by parties) doesn't cut it: because operating entirely outside of the system is also bad and unpredictable.

Nobody was talking about left wing extremism, because they aren't as prominent these days.

I'll copy here what I edited above.
The disconnection is made perfectly clear with this statement of yours

the left wing is rather quiet these days, even if statistics show otherwise

How are they quiet?. They're not, and statistics shows that. You're just less concerned about it for whatever reason.

Prominence is a function of how much we care. It's noticeable. Famous.
It is understandable that we care about rightwing nuts a lot more: because we have an specific and atrocious past as context. But nevertheless, the reality is left nuts are operating, successfully, and under our noses: because we're collectively getting our panties in a twist about a few ring wing nuts.
That willful and asymmetric ignorance is dangerous.

[josykay]

So what OP is telling me is that a guy didn't do anything until the government declared him mentally unstable for unspecified reasons (and no, being part of any political movement, no matter how much you don't like it, is not a valid reason) and tried to crack down into his home? If they simply didn't go there this news story wouldn't even exist.

No. He was declared unstable, after he at first refused to cooperate with authorities multiple times, announced, that he rejects any cooperation with state agencies, and doesn't feel bound to the german law. And finally, when authorities wanted to check, if he handles his guns properly, he refused that as well. After that he was declared unfit for the possesion of firearms. The fact, that he armored himself with an bullet proof vest, and started shooting immediately shows, that they where right, to consider him unfit possesing arms. Which, unlike in Murica isn't a constitutional right but a privilege, granted by the state, and as such can be revoked.

[Slant]

I think I was pretty clear that comparison are idiotic. If you want to make the comparison, you're the one that needs to bring the rationale, not me. So far, your rationale to justify the comparison (being supported by parties) doesn't cut it: because operating entirely outside of the system is also bad and unpredictable.

Right... you're still not getting it. Please show me right-wing extremist crime rates in comparison to attacks in Germany conducted by ISIS or motivated by ISIS ideology. Until you can come up with a number that's even remotely close (or heck, I'll gamble it and say even double digits for ISIS motivated deeds without looking it up), how about you stop talking like I'm the one that has to prove anything?

[nextormento]

Please show me right-wing extremist crime rates in comparison to attacks in Germany conducted by ISIS

Why would I?. I don't think they're worse, or more dangerous.
It's you the one claiming they're less. And I find your rationale silly.

how about you stop talking like I'm the one that has to prove anything?

You are.


In any case, these attacks, are all outliers. It's not what normally happens. So claims for what is worse are hard to qualify or quantify. We've come to understand that these things happen, and we deal with it.
The only bits of information that merit a bit of thinking are trends, not tallies, or comparisons. If religious-motivated attacks are growing, then that is interesting: if they grow faster than we account for, or we're prepared to deal with, etc. Same for any other kind of attacks: they all will happen; we're just pondering how to allocate resources.

[zenkai]

They are one and the same thing.

Besides, right wing extremists are the bigger danger in Germany or anywhere else for that matter.

I was curious about your claim and looked into it.

Looks like all these terrorist plots - http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...mic-State-ISIS

causes a right wing reaction - https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-left-islamist

Which in turn, cause the far left to react
Far-left acts of violence – often targeting far-right activists or police – also rose sharply, to 1,608 violent offences from 995 the previous year, said the report.

[Skulltaker]

Right... you're still not getting it. Please show me right-wing extremist crime rates in comparison to attacks in Germany conducted by ISIS or motivated by ISIS ideology. Until you can come up with a number that's even remotely close (or heck, I'll gamble it and say even double digits for ISIS motivated deeds without looking it up), how about you stop talking like I'm the one that has to prove anything?

Dude, you cannot win against the Trump way to argue. They will just ignore what you say and keep trying to hammer their misguided beliefs into you as facts. The best of them is running for office, all we are left here with is the the washouts. Of the Trump way to solve arguments.

[Slant]

So you are denying that cops tried to cover up NYE, even though it's public knowledge that if your muslim that cops look the other way.

You liberals are shameless traitors of the worst kind.

No, without kidding now, it's Germany. They will do raids on "right wing extremists" even when Islamic bombs will be exploding 2 times a day.
Some governments just like their new pets. Same with my country.

Bigger danger than Islamists? Can you explain your reasoning?

Just to illustrate what we're talking about. Not left wing extremism, it's not relevant to the whole topic unless you'd also like to talk about German right-wing extremism's relevant danger in comparison to... I don't know, FARC in Colombia. Might as well, the connection is just as loose in this context.

[Maduk]

So what OP is telling me is that a guy didn't do anything until the government declared him mentally unstable for unspecified reasons (and no, being part of any political movement, no matter how much you don't like it, is not a valid reason) and tried to crack down into his home? If they simply didn't go there this news story wouldn't even exist.

The firearms ownership license is only valid for 3 years, after that you have to prove that you are still trustworthy enough to have guns (german law).
The government asked him 2 times to do that. He responded that he doesn't have to do that, because he doesn't acknowledge the BRD.
After that he stopped paying taxes for his car, declared that he is no longer a citizen of his town and founded an own country.
Then the government declared him mentally unstable and unable to own guns.

[Slant]

You are.

Dude, you're missing the point by a mile and are further going into the wrong direction.

[Skulltaker]

The firearms ownership license is only valid for 3 years, after that you have to prove that you are still trustworthy enough to have guns (german law).
The government asked him 2 times to do that. He responded that he doesn't have to do that, because he doesn't acknowledge the BRD.
After that he stopped paying taxes for his car, declared that he is no longer a citizen of his town and founded an own country.
Then the government declared him mentally unstable and unable to own guns.

Sounds like the govs are on the right side of the argument here.

[nextormento]

Dude, you're missing the point by a mile and are further going into the wrong direction.

There is no point to the exchange.
This is just our resident antifa apologist -kangodo- insisting here and elsewhere that right wing terrorism is a threat well beyond what any adjusted citizen would analyze.
I mean, it's not hard to find claims by these kind of folks arguing that violence is alright, so long as it's targeted at their political opponent.
Fuck that.