Diablo 4

[Ivpiv]

https://twitter.com/davidbrevik/stat...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

Spoilers: Brevik isn't working on Diablo : /



While not getting too into it as there's a whole D3 forum, I can't disagree strongly enough. Between the continued lack of a proper trading economy (and the inability to effectively farm items for alts) as well as ongoing issues with the gearing and builds at endgame, D3 is still quite flawed. They addressed a huge number of the major issues the game shouldn't have launched with to begin with, but it's still got a ways to go to approach how awesome D2 was and how long D2's managed to keep hardcore community.

Not to mention the fact that a hack n slash dungeon crawler game with NO CUSTOMIZATION is counterintuitive. THe only thing that kept d2 fresh was the new builds people came up with to do the content.
The content kinda doesn't change, and there really isn't that much of a difficulty curve, the only parameter to make a hack n slash game work long term is customization.
That is what makes Path of exile a better game by such a vide margin its not even funny. You could take the worst aspect of POE and it would still be way better than the best aspect of diablo 3. D3 is controlled from on high, you just sit back and wait to see what build blizzards thinks you should be playing next league.

This is NOT! how hack n slash games are supposed to work, you are supposed to be able to customize a C to be able to slaughter endless waves of monster the way you prefer. Not wait for blizzard tp dictate which set bonuses makes or brakes which builds next league/ next set of patch notes.

[ssviolett]

D4 chances to happen are about the same as Half-Life 3. Diablo game model is not profitable anymore, it is easier to do another HS expansion or to add several more mounts to HotS instead of investing resources to such huge project.

[Vespian]

Can agree with this.

Still a trading system is not needed to make a great game. It can add a lot if done well, and can break everything if done poorly - we have both examples.

Anyway, D2 success is not due to trading - it's due to it being an awesome game at the time and having a community that supports it. Both things that can include trading but do not require it.

I think people are making trading a much bigger thing than it actually is. I'm not saying that it doesn't have a role in D2 success, but i think there are much more important things that need to be executed correctly before a trading system.
There are a lot of 10+ year old games with awesome communities around - it's not trading that makes them good, it's the communuty behind (trading helps in building that community).

You don't miss the trading system. You miss the interaction and "community feeling" D3 simply failed in bringing to the table due to anonymous random matchmaking and extremely fast session where everyone is a stranger and there's zero need to communicate.

PS: if trading is what many people seek, maybe people should play a trading simulator? I don't see many of them around and for sure they're not as popular.

What is trading? It's a term. It's a loose statement flung into the development of a game. PoE is a trade simulator. It's literally thought out to have a trade system as complex as their passives tree. D2 wasn't like that. It was a game, it offered trading, it had no BOP BS (like WoW), nor a pre-invented economy(like D3), and the player was left to his own devices. Trading became organically great, instead of artificially.

Which is probably why trading settled into a few core items that set the pricing points, that were used as currency, and from that baseline all items were valued. It had an economy, without trying to have one.

And to actually make my point; That is why D2, to me, was the perfect balance of interaction and solo. I loved playing with people and I loved playing solo. Both were viable, both offered similar rewards and neither destroyed the other.

[Zeta333]

What is trading? It's a term. It's a loose statement flung into the development of a game. PoE is a trade simulator. It's literally thought out to have a trade system as complex as their passives tree. D2 wasn't like that. It was a game, it offered trading, it had no BOP BS (like WoW), nor a pre-invented economy(like D3), and the player was left to his own devices. Trading became organically great, instead of artificially.

Which is probably why trading settled into a few core items that set the pricing points, that were used as currency, and from that baseline all items were valued. It had an economy, without trying to have one.

And to actually make my point; That is why D2, to me, was the perfect balance of interaction and solo. I loved playing with people and I loved playing solo. Both were viable, both offered similar rewards and neither destroyed the other.

In all my time playing diablo, while i herd the term this or that is worth x soj's. I never once traded or saw someone trade x sojs for one item. Maby Highrunes but they were used for countless runewords. Really trading in the game was beyond dull without the augmentation of d2jsp.

[Tyranitar]

In all my time playing diablo, while i herd the term this or that is worth x soj's. I never once traded or saw someone trade x sojs for one item. Maby Highrunes but they were used for countless runewords. Really trading in the game was beyond dull without the augmentation of d2jsp.

Which is why I generally liked the D3 auction house.
It brought d2jsp as well es item selling sites into the game.

If the game back then had better progression and less gold inflation, it wouöd have been perfect for me.

But noooo, people had to cry about the AH.

[Vespian]

In all my time playing diablo, while i herd the term this or that is worth x soj's. I never once traded or saw someone trade x sojs for one item. Maby Highrunes but they were used for countless runewords. Really trading in the game was beyond dull without the augmentation of d2jsp.

I've played D2 for 6 years straight (by which I literally mean, that in a period of 6 years, not a single other game was touched). If you missed the thousands of daily trades, you were in the wrong channel.

And while I played selffound beyond a year into LoD, I've eventually used tradechannels to great success, time and time again. D2JSP wasn't just a source of trading, it was also a source of abuse, duping and cheating. I haven't used D2JSP a single time.

[Gadzooks]

Can agree with this.

Still a trading system is not needed to make a great game. It can add a lot if done well, and can break everything if done poorly - we have both examples.

Anyway, D2 success is not due to trading - it's due to it being an awesome game at the time and having a community that supports it. Both things that can include trading but do not require it.

I think people are making trading a much bigger thing than it actually is. I'm not saying that it doesn't have a role in D2 success, but i think there are much more important things that need to be executed correctly before a trading system.
There are a lot of 10+ year old games with awesome communities around - it's not trading that makes them good, it's the communuty behind (trading helps in building that community).

You don't miss the trading system. You miss the interaction and "community feeling" D3 simply failed in bringing to the table due to anonymous random matchmaking and extremely fast session where everyone is a stranger and there's zero need to communicate.

PS: if trading is what many people seek, maybe people should play a trading simulator? I don't see many of them around and for sure they're not as popular.

I'll be honest, there was no "community" for me in D2. Other players existed for extra loot on Baal runs - there was so much fuckery and PKing going on with public games I played alone except for Baal runs. I don't think I ever traded once in the years I played. Or spoke to another person, I distinctly remembering making comments in public games and getting silence in return.

And, D3 was pretty much the same, except for the added bonus of constant gold selling spam in my game window.

[Twistedelmo]

I think if anything We deserve a Warcraft 4 before another Diablo.

[Gadzooks]

I've played D2 for 6 years straight (by which I literally mean, that in a period of 6 years, not a single other game was touched). If you missed the thousands of daily trades, you were in the wrong channel.

And while I played selffound beyond a year into LoD, I've eventually used tradechannels to great success, time and time again. D2JSP wasn't just a source of trading, it was also a source of abuse, duping and cheating. I haven't used D2JSP a single time.

And all of that led to the first ban waves Blizzard ever did. the Great Rust Storm was extremely entertaining to read about, so many kiddies got wiped out in an instant.

[Zeta333]

I've played D2 for 6 years straight (by which I literally mean, that in a period of 6 years, not a single other game was touched). If you missed the thousands of daily trades, you were in the wrong channel.

And while I played selffound beyond a year into LoD, I've eventually used tradechannels to great success, time and time again. D2JSP wasn't just a source of trading, it was also a source of abuse, duping and cheating. I haven't used D2JSP a single time.

How was d2jsp a source of abuse duping and cheating? It was a proper forum auction house with intergrated currency. Duping was happening with or without that site as the item selling sites would do it to runes, plug them in and perm them in a runeword. I know there were trade channels and trade games, but an actuall forum where you could play while monitoring for items or trades or services was beyond usefull. I played from release till a year after d3 released and the last half of that time i used it and it was far more enjoyable than using the ingame channels or searching for trade games.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'll be honest, there was no "community" for me in D2. Other players existed for extra loot on Baal runs - there was so much fuckery and PKing going on with public games I played alone except for Baal runs. I don't think I ever traded once in the years I played. Or spoke to another person, I distinctly remembering making comments in public games and getting silence in return.

And, D3 was pretty much the same, except for the added bonus of constant gold selling spam in my game window.

I think one thing that was a bit of a turn off at least back in the old days for me, I had to make sure I was playing D2 or else my char would well..it wouldn't last long. Wasn't a fan of that.

[Vespian]

How was d2jsp a source of abuse duping and cheating? It was a proper forum auction house with intergrated currency. Duping was happening with or without that site as the item selling sites would do it to runes, plug them in and perm them in a runeword. I know there were trade channels and trade games, but an actuall forum where you could play while monitoring for items or trades or services was beyond usefull. I played from release till a year after d3 released and the last half of that time i used it and it was far more enjoyable than using the ingame channels or searching for trade games.

There's some reverse logic in your reply.

You said that you've never seen a SoJ trade in your life. I'm assuming that if you know about tradechannels, you're not telling the truth. Apart from that, post-Ruststorm, oh glorious Ruststorm, currency was more often based on IST value and Shako value than SoJ value, though obviously X IST equals 1 SoJ.

Not only was D2JSP a proper trading forum, it also ruled the market for dupes, was a source of duping information/techniques, was one of the first sources to uncover Uber-Diablo logic (which at least was gray territory) and I distinctly remember getting my first, only and last bot from there as well. As well as MH. Though, I quit after two weeks, due to boredom, I still got rightfully banned 3 months later.

Of course, the reason d2jsp was badly moderated to prevent cheating, was the fact that, until Rust Storms, there was no risk. There was literally no consequence to providing the information, nor abusing it. I think things changed slightly with the introduction of Rust Storms, but the community virtually remained the same.

As was mentioned by @Gadzooks I loved Rust Storms. I had to love Rust Storms. Since my characters were 100% selffound back then, including 3 Call to Arms, it felt really good to suddenly see all those naked avatars in the channels.

Though I disagree with his opinion of community. Opening yourself up to making friends would perhaps have helped

[Kuntantee]

I would pay for a diablo mmo.

[Djriff]

I would pay for a diablo mmo.

You should check out Devilian.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You should check out Devilian.

Might be too animeish for him(In terms of art style).

[Djriff]

Might be too animeish for him(In terms of art style).

Maybe, but it's a nice take on diablo game style as an mmo, I had fun with it for awhile.

[Edge-]

Maybe, but it's a nice take on diablo game style as an mmo, I had fun with it for awhile.

The only positive thing I remember about my brief time playing was it had the autorun to quest objective feature. Damn I love that feature.

[Djriff]

The only positive thing I remember about my brief time playing was it had the autorun to quest objective feature. Damn I love that feature.

Yeah that was nice. The combat in the game was actually decent.

Speaking of games we want to be mmo's can we have a Baulder's Gate one? Please?

[Gadzooks]

There's some reverse logic in your reply.

You said that you've never seen a SoJ trade in your life. I'm assuming that if you know about tradechannels, you're not telling the truth. Apart from that, post-Ruststorm, oh glorious Ruststorm, currency was more often based on IST value and Shako value than SoJ value, though obviously X IST equals 1 SoJ.

Not only was D2JSP a proper trading forum, it also ruled the market for dupes, was a source of duping information/techniques, was one of the first sources to uncover Uber-Diablo logic (which at least was gray territory) and I distinctly remember getting my first, only and last bot from there as well. As well as MH. Though, I quit after two weeks, due to boredom, I still got rightfully banned 3 months later.

Of course, the reason d2jsp was badly moderated to prevent cheating, was the fact that, until Rust Storms, there was no risk. There was literally no consequence to providing the information, nor abusing it. I think things changed slightly with the introduction of Rust Storms, but the community virtually remained the same.

As was mentioned by @Gadzooks I loved Rust Storms. I had to love Rust Storms. Since my characters were 100% selffound back then, including 3 Call to Arms, it felt really good to suddenly see all those naked avatars in the channels.

Though I disagree with his opinion of community. Opening yourself up to making friends would perhaps have helped

It wasn't from lack of trying, trust me.