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  1. #1
    Deleted

    Trueshot CD Reduction

    Without any reduction Trueshot is a 15 second buff with a 3 minute cooldown. That's an up-time of 8.3% if you used it on CD every-time.

    There are 3 ways to reduce the CD of Trueshot:
    • Quick Shot, Artifact Trait x3: -30sec CD (x3 +relics with this trait)
    • Legendary Boots: roughly -30sec CD
    • T19 2piece Bonus: Every 20 Focus you spend reduces the cooldown of Trueshot by 1 sec [not yet in-game]

    If you have 4 points in Quick Shot (3 levels +1 relic) then your Trueshot CD is going to be down by 40secs to about 2min20sec. This is an up-time of 10.7%.

    If you have the Boots and 4 points in Quick Shot (3 levels +1 relic) then your Trueshot CD is going to be roughly halved, down to about 1min50sec. This is an up-time of 15%.

    Chuck in the T19 2piece bonus on top of this (I'm not sure how much cooldown reduction they will provide on average, perhaps another 30sec?) are we going to be getting to the point where we will have a ~1min10sec CD on Trueshot. At this point would it be viable to priotise Quick Shot traits on relics to bring the cooldown down to ~50sec? That's a potential up-time of nearly 30%.

    In this scenario you could use Trueshot on every Mythic+ pack and benefit from execute crit bonus and your DPS would skyrocket. You could also align it with Murder of Crows, ensuring you have a Trueshot up for every time you cast this (long fight ST). Plenty more applications I'm sure.

    tl;dr - potential with legendary, T19 + QS relics to have <1min CD on Trueshot. Too good to be true?!

  2. #2
    I think quick shot is already the recommended bis trait for relics. Also, don't forget the convergence trinket. The uptime on trueshot is going to be pretty high in nighthold

  3. #3

  4. #4
    And Convergence of Fates - trinket

  5. #5
    Yes. This is something that's been widely known since prepatch.

  6. #6
    Really hope my first legendary will be the boots.

  7. #7
    Deleted
    I have the boots and 3 points in the Trueshot reduction trait at the moment. Generally getting about 1min30s trueshots.

    There is difficulty in obtaining a Life Relic with the correct trait on it before Nighthold releases though. (drops from Trilliax in nighthold)

    The only place to obtain one is from Arcway. You'll need to do high level m+ Arcway spamming to get hold of a good one.

    I fully expect >1minute trueshot cd in nighthold, should easily be up for every crows cast.

    My question is how hard does this de-value Haste on Gear? If trueshot is up all the time them Crit will be SUPER valuable.
    Last edited by mmocf14db8ec4b; 2016-10-20 at 02:55 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharaven View Post
    And Convergence of Fates - trinket
    Is currently garbage and procs very infrequently. Unfortunate.
    Finbez
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological
    if only WoW had come out when I was a teenager. Back then online gaming consisted of text-based MUDs....I could type "kill orc" faster than any of my competition, brosephs, and played a mean giantman cleric.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by djar View Post
    Really hope my first legendary will be the boots.
    I got boots first, wish it was the belt tbh.
    Wont even gain one use on most fights with 4 traits for reduction
    Might be better deeper in mythic progress tough. And ofc in Nighthold with 2set.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by BergErr View Post
    I got boots first, wish it was the belt tbh.
    Wont even gain one use on most fights with 4 traits for reduction
    Might be better deeper in mythic progress tough. And ofc in Nighthold with 2set.
    heroic kill times are way too short to get an extra usage. There is not a single fight on mythic where the boots don't give at least 1 extra usage.
    Finbez
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological
    if only WoW had come out when I was a teenager. Back then online gaming consisted of text-based MUDs....I could type "kill orc" faster than any of my competition, brosephs, and played a mean giantman cleric.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by baggiez View Post
    Without any reduction Trueshot is a 15 second buff with a 3 minute cooldown. That's an up-time of 8.3% if you used it on CD every-time.

    There are 3 ways to reduce the CD of Trueshot:
    • Quick Shot, Artifact Trait x3: -30sec CD (x3 +relics with this trait)
    • Legendary Boots: roughly -30sec CD
    • T19 2piece Bonus: Every 20 Focus you spend reduces the cooldown of Trueshot by 1 sec [not yet in-game]

    If you have 4 points in Quick Shot (3 levels +1 relic) then your Trueshot CD is going to be down by 40secs to about 2min20sec. This is an up-time of 10.7%.

    If you have the Boots and 4 points in Quick Shot (3 levels +1 relic) then your Trueshot CD is going to be roughly halved, down to about 1min50sec. This is an up-time of 15%.

    Chuck in the T19 2piece bonus on top of this (I'm not sure how much cooldown reduction they will provide on average, perhaps another 30sec?) are we going to be getting to the point where we will have a ~1min10sec CD on Trueshot. At this point would it be viable to priotise Quick Shot traits on relics to bring the cooldown down to ~50sec? That's a potential up-time of nearly 30%.

    In this scenario you could use Trueshot on every Mythic+ pack and benefit from execute crit bonus and your DPS would skyrocket. You could also align it with Murder of Crows, ensuring you have a Trueshot up for every time you cast this (long fight ST). Plenty more applications I'm sure.

    tl;dr - potential with legendary, T19 + QS relics to have <1min CD on Trueshot. Too good to be true?!
    You also have to take into account that we will cast faster during TS during a boss encounter which will further lower our CD if you have boots.

  12. #12
    With 2 Quick Shot relics. 3 Points into Quick Shot and the Legendary Feet. My Trueshot is up so far on a ~1.3-1.4 minute scale. I am more than sure the 2 PC will reduce it to under a minute. Question is though by how much?

    Has there been any testing at all with the tier bonuses?
    Last edited by sarym13; 2016-10-20 at 09:59 PM.

  13. #13
    Napkin math shows :

    3 minutes cooldown base
    - 1 minute if you have 6/6 artifact trait slotted (-10sec per point)
    - 15 seconds due to Trueshot duration itself

    This puts us at 1:45 before any dynamic cooldown reductions take place.

    Now, over 15 secs of Trueshot, you're going to use maybe about 10 shots (7 aimed, 3 marked?), leading to -10 second reduction from shoes, and about 25 second reduction from 4/4 t19 piece (7 aimed shots + 3 marked shots + barrage = 500 focus spent, or 25 second reduction due to set bonus, which reduces cooldown by 1 sec for every 20 focus spent). You can also expect -5 seconds from at least one proc of convergence of fates.

    Altogether, that puts us at 1:45 - 0:10 - 0:25 - 0:05 = 1:05 cooldown when the first Trueshot aura expires. Over the next minute, you can expect the dynamic reduction (shoes + 2 piece + Convergence) to probably shave off another 30 seconds or so, leading to a true cooldown of roughly 30 seconds on Trueshot?
    Last edited by Ashnazg; 2016-10-20 at 10:50 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by exaflare View Post
    There is difficulty in obtaining a Life Relic with the correct trait on it before Nighthold releases though. (drops from Trilliax in nighthold)

    The only place to obtain one is from Arcway. You'll need to do high level m+ Arcway spamming to get hold of a good one.
    Just an FYI, Nightbane in Kara should be dropping an 875 base Life relic with -trueshot CD. Ritual of Animation.

    Only problem is figuring out how to summon him.

  15. #15
    Deleted
    Base CD of trueshot should be like 2 min or even less for what it do baseline. Its just 40% haste for 15 sec and hunter mark aply on sidewinders (everyone is using that) If you compare it to monk CD which increase dmg by 40% of everything you do, no Chi cost and dont cost CD for 8 sec and has CD of 90 sec. Its kinda funny. Yes i know trueshot also increase crit dmg by 50% but you have to have art. trait for that. Its not baseline.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by sleepingforest View Post
    I think quick shot is already the recommended bis trait for relics. Also, don't forget the convergence trinket. The uptime on trueshot is going to be pretty high in nighthold
    Any sources on this? Sounds interesting, but I feel like pursuing the quick shot trait on your relics is going to lead to very situational DPS benefits and is possibly not worth it at all without the boots.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedirt View Post
    Any sources on this? Sounds interesting, but I feel like pursuing the quick shot trait on your relics is going to lead to very situational DPS benefits and is possibly not worth it at all without the boots.
    Quick shot and boots are both situational, period. If you want a consistent DPS upgrade, you go for the 3.33% more damage/crit on marked shot talents (both providing, unsurprisingly, 3.33% more dmg to marked shot). The idea is that during progress, if quick shot relics allows you to burst down something more frequently because your CD is lower, it becomes a significant gain to raid "utility", because under trueshot we are beasts at bursting new adds etc... Likewise, if it allows you to line it up with AOE-phases better (such as Nythendra MC's), it'll also pull ahead because our AOE damage under trueshot is bonkers.

    In the end though, it's down to what you prefer - there's nothing "wrong" in picking flat DPS gains, but I'd say -30 sec on trueshot is more useful than 10% more Marked shot damage to me, because I know I can push out adequate damage under normal circumstances; Having extra burst windows helps the raid kill bosses.

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Quick shot and boots are both situational, period. If you want a consistent DPS upgrade, you go for the 3.33% more damage/crit on marked shot talents (both providing, unsurprisingly, 3.33% more dmg to marked shot). The idea is that during progress, if quick shot relics allows you to burst down something more frequently because your CD is lower, it becomes a significant gain to raid "utility", because under trueshot we are beasts at bursting new adds etc... Likewise, if it allows you to line it up with AOE-phases better (such as Nythendra MC's), it'll also pull ahead because our AOE damage under trueshot is bonkers.

    In the end though, it's down to what you prefer - there's nothing "wrong" in picking flat DPS gains, but I'd say -30 sec on trueshot is more useful than 10% more Marked shot damage to me, because I know I can push out adequate damage under normal circumstances; Having extra burst windows helps the raid kill bosses.
    I never argued against the boots being non situational. I was assuming that, statistically speaking, the boots would push the CD down in a favour that would allow trueshot to be used more on average on many more fights than with just stacking quick shot traits.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedirt View Post
    I never argued against the boots being non situational. I was assuming that, statistically speaking, the boots would push the CD down in a favour that would allow trueshot to be used more on average on many more fights than with just stacking quick shot traits.
    It depends really. The boots, mathematically anyway, "only" removes about 35 second off of the cooldown assuming you're at 2.5 min CD (no relics), and a bit less (probably in the 30 second region) with 3x relics. That's about the same benefit as slotting 3x relics. By your logic, if the boots, statistically speaking, would push the CD down enough to make it used more on average in many more fights, then so would 3x trueshot relics as the reduction is almost the same :P.

  20. #20
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    It depends really. The boots, mathematically anyway, "only" removes about 35 second off of the cooldown assuming you're at 2.5 min CD (no relics), and a bit less (probably in the 30 second region) with 3x relics. That's about the same benefit as slotting 3x relics. By your logic, if the boots, statistically speaking, would push the CD down enough to make it used more on average in many more fights, then so would 3x trueshot relics as the reduction is almost the same :P.
    Sure would, but my argument was using the relic traits in conjunction with the boots. Not either of them on their own. Either way it's probably difficult to properly do the math here as most guilds (especially during progression) tend to not get optimized kill timers anyways, and I suppose this is also why I prefer not picking up the Quick Shot traits. But it's good for the sake of utility, that I agree with.

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