Final Presidential Debate - October 19, 2016

[Skroe]

Can Russia win a war against USA? I would say yes.

If Russia were to do something like invading the Baltic States, they would have a much easier time commiting military resources right at their border. While we would literally fly ours halfway across the globe and set up military bases in Finland and Sweden and etc. And there's no way we could do a ground invasion while Russia could. Russia would have a lot more at stake assimilating the Baltics while the vested interest of America is to just protect Latvia or something.

Yeah if America did and all out war against Russia we would win, but I just don't see our commitment to the potatoes in question for America to do that.

We wouldn't do a ground invasion of Russia. We'd break Russia's capability to make war from the air mostly, before encircling and destroying Russian ground forces in Eastern Europe.

Russia would get hit with more long range (conventional) missiles than any other country in the history of man ever has, but US Infantry and Armor wouldn't be rolling onto Moscow.

As for the US commitment to it, it absolutely would. If the US doesn't honor it's security commitment, our entire global defense strategy collapses. In many ways, a limited conflict with Russia would be the essential test case of that commitment.

[Venant]

And the USA is and has been supporting the opposition government, against Assad.

If, in your hypothetical, the USA was launching air strikes against those rebels, and some significantly-more-powerful nation supporting those rebels said "yeah, cut that out, any more planes in the air and we'll take offense", then yes, the US should think long and hard about what they're doing, because breaking that no-fly zone will provoke a reaction they can't handle.

This is the issue; you folks keep acting like Russia's the same superpower that the Soviet Union once was, and it isn't.

In the best case scenario, Russia just abandons Syria and Assad falls, which results in Syria turning into Al Qaeda-stan where you will just have a permanent civil war between Shia militias backed by Iran and Sunni militias backed by the US and Saudi Arabia. Of course, maybe under your scenario the US backed 'moderate rebels' win, which will result in the likely genocide of 2.6 million Alawites.

But yeah, we gotta show Russia who's da boss, and Syria is totes not just an inverted version of what we are doing in Yemen where rebels there overthrew the Saudi Backed puppet government, and now we are helping Saudi Arabia commit war crimes against the civilian population there.

[waitwutt]

And he did say it would be wasted. But he also said he had "a fiduciary responsibility to his business, his family and his employees to pay no more tax than legally required."

It is impossible to justify the business and employees in his personal tax returns. His personal tax rate has zero effect on them. And, since he can't claim his kids as dependents, the "family" claim's a little shaky, too. Did Trump file jointly? I don't think he filed jointly.

having more personal money means you can have more personal investments. you can have personal investments IN THE BUISINESSES YOU OWN. putting more money into your business as an investment helps the business. the returns on that business helps your family. hes not going out and buying 500 Xbox's and saying its to help his business and family. its about what you can do with excess money.

[Endus]

In the best case scenario, Russia just abandons Syria and Assad falls, which results in Syria turning into Al Qaeda-stan where you will just have a permanent civil war between Shia militias backed by Iran and Sunni militias backed by the US and Saudi Arabia. Of course, maybe under your scenario the US backed 'moderate rebels' win, which will result in the likely genocide of 2.6 million Alawites.

But yeah, we gotta show Russia who's da boss, and Syria is totes not just an inverted version of what we are doing in Yemen where rebels there overthrew the Saudi Backed puppet government, and now we are helping Saudi Arabia commit war crimes against the civilian population there.

This whole thing is such a mess of wild misrepresentations of basic fact that I don't even know where to start in untangling it, so I'm not going to even bother.

I already linked the wikipedia on the Syrian civil war. You're pretty much wrong about pretty much everything.

[waitwutt]

Nobody is sure what that had to do with Clinton being a puppet. It was a stupid thing for Trump to say.

we are talking about how Hillary is bought and controlled by these other countries and corps. thats how shes a puppet. do some research into how the 08 crash happened and how it was allowed to happen

[DeadmanWalking]

source for them paying their fair share? good let Saudi fight their own battles.

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of all the whining of trumps tax returns ive heard ive never heard them say anything about ^^. so thats obviously not why its a big issue. that being said I have no idea what youre referring to. ive never heard of this. and he hasn't paid none. hes paid LOTS, just not income tax because of deductions hes had.

Perhaps being Trumps biggest fan he will let you see his tax returns so you can prove what you said. Fact is we have no clue if he paid his taxes properly or if he didn't pay enough. I am sure he will show his tax returns once he wins election, or re-election... or never, hey you don't need to test drive this used car or kick the tires, you just pay an drive away, you'll love it, trust me!

[Noxx79]

source for them paying their fair share? good let Saudi fight their own battles.

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of all the whining of trumps tax returns ive heard ive never heard them say anything about ^^. so thats obviously not why its a big issue. that being said I have no idea what youre referring to. ive never heard of this. and he hasn't paid none. hes paid LOTS, just not income tax because of deductions hes had.

So you're saying you want to be a dishonorable, backstabbing, lying country. That'll make America safe again? And what does this have to do with politifact? You're still dodging the question, because you know you're wrong.

[waitwutt]

Sorry, but you don't know that.

sorry but I do. the irs audited him the past 16 years. if hes literally paying nothing to federal tax. he would be in trouble. the same loopholes don't exist for state

[Kujako]

sorry but I do.

How did you obtain Trumps tax returns?

[Breccia]

having more personal money means you can have more personal investments. you can have personal investments IN THE BUISINESSES YOU OWN. putting more money into your business as an investment helps the business.

A) He doesn't. He lets them wither and die. Or go bankrupt.
B) He is not required to do so. Still no fiduciary duty to his businesses or employees.

[DeadmanWalking]

we are talking about how Hillary is bought and controlled by these other countries and corps. thats how shes a puppet. do some research into how the 08 crash happened and how it was allowed to happen

Feel free to let us know what your 08 conspiracy thoery is so we can disprove it. ANyone who says 'cuck' on forums usually has hilarious conspiracy theories.

[LaserSharkDFB]

Perhaps being Trumps biggest fan he will let you see his tax returns so you can prove what you said. Fact is we have no clue if he paid his taxes properly or if he didn't pay enough. I am sure he will show his tax returns once he wins election, or re-election... or never, hey you don't need to test drive this used car or kick the tires, you just pay an drive away, you'll love it, trust me!

That was always the dumbest thing about the tax returns. Of course he was never going to release them before the election. If he lost, he wouldn't have to, and if he won then they were obviously not important to getting him elected. It's amazing how many of his minions willingly swallowed that line of bullshit.

[Breccia]

we are talking about how Hillary is bought and controlled by these other countries and corps. thats how shes a puppet. do some research into how the 08 crash happened and how it was allowed to happen

OH MY GOD! Turns out the Saudis caused the housing bubble!

Nah, just kidding. You're going to have to defend the "pay to play" arguments with something better than the '08 crash. Like, evidence or something. The Clinton Foundation is not her personal money, so good luck with that.

[waitwutt]

Perhaps being Trumps biggest fan he will let you see his tax returns so you can prove what you said. Fact is we have no clue if he paid his taxes properly or if he didn't pay enough. I am sure he will show his tax returns once he wins election, or re-election... or never, hey you don't need to test drive this used car or kick the tires, you just pay an drive away, you'll love it, trust me!

yea because the irs audits him for over a decade in a row and say hes doing everything right. we still "have no clue if he paid his taxes PROPERLY or if he didn't pay enough" its not up to American people to decide that. its up to the irs. who has for the past many years been saying yes hes been doing it properly.

[Skroe]

so if we are helping our ally and some big country says stop helping your ally we should just say yes sir no more helping from us because were cucks that let you do anything you want to our allies. so because US is threatening war Russia should say "alright sure overthrow all the people were allied with, no prob"

No. But Russia should realize when it's overmatched.

It's at an absolutely hysterical military disadvantage world wide, but especially in Syria. It has a whopping 30 aircraft in Syria. Thirty.

The US has at least 150 aircraft in Turkey alone. Between the carrier in the region, the bases in the Gulf, the US base in Italy and Germany... there are hundreds upon hundreds of US Aircraft within striking distance of Syria

And it's not even like Russia could rely on airpower from Russian territory. It's air force is a fraction of the size of the US's Air Force + Navy. It's long range and precision strike capability is nearly non-existent. It's aircraft are almost all older and severely outdated compared to American ones. Their fleet combat readiness rate is about 24% for tactical aircraft (that is to say, for every 1 aircraft ready to fight at a given time, 3 are in maintenance). By contrast the USAF fleet readiness hovers between 73% and 80%.

And we haven't even talked about the Armada of Western warships that live in the Mediterranean and the huge number of US allies with good airpower of their own. I would love to see what a Eurofighter Typhoon could do against an SU-35S.

Russia's actions in Syria and Ukraine happen because the West allows it to. If Obama or Clinton ordered Russia out and threatened military force, there is little Russia could do short of withdraw. Why withdraw? Because Russia could deal with a black eye.... and probably in some face saving maneuver blame their withdrawal on Assad to save face. But getting into even a limiting shooting fight with the West - as small as one day of Western Aircraft shooting Russian aircraft out of the sky over Syria, and then losing, would be an existential threat to the Russian regime which will have successfully maneuvered Russia into a losing fight that it lost in a humiliating fashion.

Also... 'cucks'? Really? In terms of foreign policy? Are you for real?

[Lenonis]

I see people are loosing sight of the real problem with Trump not paying taxes -- it proves his tax plan is a big lie -- that the rich pay too much in taxes and we need to lower them in order to have better trickle down nonsense.

Which, at this point, I can't help but think he's advocating writing them checks given the lack of taxes being paid.

THAT is the issue -- not whether Trump broke laws by dodging taxes.

[Lenonis]

yea because the irs audits him for over a decade in a row and say hes doing everything right.

Do we actually know this? There is a whole spectrum of outcomes of an audit from "everything is great" to "you are going to jail for tax evasion."

The fact he isn't in jail isn't proof he filed his taxes correctly.

[Breccia]

sorry but I do. the irs audited him the past 16 years. if hes literally paying nothing to federal tax. he would be in trouble.

Yes, he would be in trouble. It would mean he's going broke.

Which he is. He lost $800 million last year alone. That's over 20% of his net worth.

Going broke in the US is not inherently illegal. It just removes "I am a good businessman" from your list of qualifications, and Trump has literally nothing else.

[Skroe]

In the best case scenario, Russia just abandons Syria and Assad falls, which results in Syria turning into Al Qaeda-stan where you will just have a permanent civil war between Shia militias backed by Iran and Sunni militias backed by the US and Saudi Arabia. Of course, maybe under your scenario the US backed 'moderate rebels' win, which will result in the likely genocide of 2.6 million Alawites.

But yeah, we gotta show Russia who's da boss, and Syria is totes not just an inverted version of what we are doing in Yemen where rebels there overthrew the Saudi Backed puppet government, and now we are helping Saudi Arabia commit war crimes against the civilian population there.

Syria doesn't matter except as a black hole to consume Russian and Iranian resources and political capital.

The US's principle strategic interests lie in containing China and keeping Russia down. Syria is a means to an end.

[Lenonis]

They're both issues. One is of policy, the other is an issue of character.

*shrug* I can't personally find fault in someone maximizing their personal benefit from the tax code. I'd do the same thing if I were Trump.

Problem is the tax code -- and the fact that Trump's "solutions" are only going to make this issue even worse.