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  1. #1

    Kickass torrents defense: Torrents are not copyrighted content, US has no case.

    Their lawyers are making an interesting approach to this case.

    The legal defense team of alleged KickassTorrents owner Artem Vaulin has asked the Illinois District Court to dismiss the entire case. The fundamental flaw of the case, according to the defense, is that torrent files themselves are not copyrighted content. In addition, any secondary copyright infringement claims would fail as these are non-existent under criminal law.

    In July, Polish law enforcement officers arrested Artem Vaulin, the alleged owner of KickassTorrents, who’s been held in a local prison ever since.

    While awaiting the start of extradition hearings, Vaulin’s U.S. defense team has asked the Illinois federal court to dismiss the entire case.

    In a detailed memorandum, lead counsel Ira Rothken argues that the U.S. Government’s allegations of criminal conduct are flawed. Assuming that Vaulin is indeed the site’s founder, he didn’t commit any crimes.

    KickassTorrents (KAT) was merely a torrent search index, the defense explains. It provided a search function for torrent files which in and by themselves do not contain any copyrighted content.

    “Websites like KAT are devoid of content files. Instead, KAT is nothing more than a search engine, no different in any material way from Google and other popular website search engines, except that KAT indexes BitTorrent files,” Rothken writes.

    “Thus, at its core, the indictment merely alleges that visitors to KAT may take advantage of KAT’s automated search processes to search for and locate ‘dot torrent’ files. Such files contain textual information assembled by automated processes and do not contain copyrighted content.”

    If KAT’s users downloaded any infringing content, this would occur away from the site on their local computers, beyond KAT’s control. Merely downloading a torrent file by itself is not an infringing act.

    The fact that torrents themselves are not illegal means that operating a torrent index can’t be classified as a direct copyright infringement, according to the defense. As such, torrent search indexes don’t commit any criminal acts.

    “The fundamental flaw in the government’s untenable theory of prosecution is that there is no copyright protection for such torrent file instructions and addresses. Therefore, given the lack of direct willful copyright infringement, torrent sites do not violate criminal copyright laws,” the memorandums reads.

    It is possible to hold torrent site operators liable for “secondary” infringements committed by their users, as we have seen in the past. However, this is only possible under civil law, Vaulin’s defense team argues.

    Congress has declined to include “secondary copyright liability” in criminal legislation. As such, the indictment accuses Vaulin of a crime that doesn’t exist.

    “The indictment would make defendant responsible for infringements committed by former visitors to KAT who are acting in an entirely different online context. In the global connected culture, such elastic expansions of criminal exposure cannot be permitted to stand absent overt action by Congress updating the Copyright Act,” the defense notes.
    https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorr...o-case-161018/
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  2. #2
    The Insane Kujako's Avatar
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    Problem is that this is akin to the "I don't sell the drugs, I just tell people where to buy them" defense. Which has failed in the past. But we'll see.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  3. #3
    "I shouldn't have to pay for shit!"

    Two... years ... later.... Makes a youtube video and gets picked up as a producer of a music video, then is given a script to produce...

    "People need to pay for this shit because I don't work for free!"

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    "I shouldn't have to pay for shit!"

    Two... years ... later.... Makes a youtube video and gets picked up as a producer of a music video, then is given a script to produce...

    "People need to pay for this shit because I don't work for free!"
    I still remember that there was quite a ruckus among those same people when adblock first came.

  5. #5
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    There are so many legal problems with trying to ban/restrict torrents that it is better to just give up on it. Torrents are P2P networks, and torrent sites are simply a user interface to access the networks. P2P network is nearly impossible to control in any comprehensible way, it is almost as hard as trying to control roommates not letting each other use the software they own and their roommates don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  6. #6
    He's got a solid argument. Giving someone information isn't a crime, how they use it might be.
    Dragonflight Summary, "Because friendship is magic"

  7. #7
    Deleted
    I've never understood why the market just doesn't adapt to the current technology fully. I still have problems finding the shows I want to watch, if they all just consolidated everything in one service that's easily accessible for a good price then I'd be more inclined to pay for watching instead of downloading it.

    As it stands they're making it close to impossible to watch some things unless you want to wait about a year before it comes to your country.

    They should get with the times.

  8. #8
    Dreadlord Axphism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty Kits View Post
    I've never understood why the market just doesn't adapt to the current technology fully. I still have problems finding the shows I want to watch, if they all just consolidated everything in one service that's easily accessible for a good price then I'd be more inclined to pay for watching instead of downloading it.

    As it stands they're making it close to impossible to watch some things unless you want to wait about a year before it comes to your country.

    They should get with the times.
    It wouldn't stop piracy though, which is the point.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axphism View Post
    It wouldn't stop piracy though, which is the point.
    Many do that because it's too hard to get the shows in a legitimate way in many countries. I happily pay for services like HBO Nordic, because I get to watch the episodes when I want to when they're released, not having to wait a full year for them to appear on TV here.
    Last edited by mmoc1afe70b5e4; 2016-10-20 at 05:21 PM.

  10. #10
    Dreadlord Axphism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty Kits View Post
    Many do that because it's so hard to get the shows in a legitimate way in many countries.
    Even if it is many, there are still a whole lot that simply don't want to pay anything and would just continue using torrent sites.

    Either way I should state that I do agree with you. Even if it won't fix the problem, it doesn't make it a bad idea. Guaranteed a lot of people would use the service you described.

  11. #11
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axphism View Post
    It wouldn't stop piracy though, which is the point.
    It would reduce it significantly. I buy games and software, because they are easily accessible and (for the most part) reasonably priced. Plus, very convenient: in case of games, with services like Steam or Origin you, pretty much, have almost all the games in the world one click away. If services like Netflix offered a decent selection, I would willingly use them; as it stands though, their selection is terrible. And buying movies, say, on Amazon at outrageous prices, just to spend 2 hours watching it and likely never ever watch again - no way.

    Make a Steam-like service with decent movie selection at fair prices (say, $5 per typical older movie, $10 per new one), sales, bundles, subscriptions, etc. - and I will be the first user there.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  12. #12
    Pirates simply look at the wealthy and follow suit. Enjoying the fruits of other people's labor while not actually contributing back to the system. One can hardly blame them.

  13. #13
    Digital products have no value because they are not created by humans and consume no natural resources. Besides the initial investment of time, effort, and creativity they are absolutely worthless.

    If a thief steals an Ipod with 1 million songs in it(at 1$ a song) then is he guilty of grand larceny?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Pirates simply look at the wealthy and follow suit. Enjoying the fruits of other people's labor while not actually contributing back to the system. One can hardly blame them.
    When the rich use every loophole and shady, or even illegal methods to retain their money, certain posters applaud them. When poor people do the same, where's the applauds? Never to be seen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaexion Ramza Beoulve View Post
    Digital products have no value because they are not created by humans and consume no natural resources. Besides the initial investment of time, effort, and creativity they are absolutely worthless.
    You just rebutted your own statement.

  16. #16
    Not all Torrents are illegal stuff.

  17. #17
    Dreadlord Axphism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    It would reduce it significantly. I buy games and software, because they are easily accessible and (for the most part) reasonably priced. Plus, very convenient: in case of games, with services like Steam or Origin you, pretty much, have almost all the games in the world one click away. If services like Netflix offered a decent selection, I would willingly use them; as it stands though, their selection is terrible. And buying movies, say, on Amazon at outrageous prices, just to spend 2 hours watching it and likely never ever watch again - no way.

    Make a Steam-like service with decent movie selection at fair prices (say, $5 per typical older movie, $10 per new one), sales, bundles, subscriptions, etc. - and I will be the first user there.
    I don't agree with you, but I won't say you're wrong, if that makes sense. My gut tells me most people that pirate games/songs/software/movies/tv shows do it because it's convenient and free. While I know there are people like you out there, I don't believe you're in the majority.

    That entire paragraph said, I could be 100% wrong. I just have no way of actually knowing.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    "I shouldn't have to pay for shit!"

    Two... years ... later.... Makes a youtube video and gets picked up as a producer of a music video, then is given a script to produce...

    "People need to pay for this shit because I don't work for free!"
    I do enjoy all the people online I have seen admit to stealing things inline then in the same conversatuon bitch about people not paying for their stuff.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Axphism View Post
    I don't agree with you, but I won't say you're wrong, if that makes sense. My gut tells me most people that pirate games/songs/software/movies/tv shows do it because it's convenient and free. While I know there are people like you out there, I don't believe you're in the majority.

    That entire paragraph said, I could be 100% wrong. I just have no way of actually knowing.
    It may be convenient, but what is alot more convenient, is being able to stream movies right away from a service, rather than download them all. The services just have to step up to provide something worth the price.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  20. #20
    Dreadlord Axphism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    It may be convenient, but what is alot more convenient, is being able to stream movies right away from a service, rather than download them all. The services just have to step up to provide something worth the price.
    True. Like I said, I love the idea of the service. I just don't think it would put a significant dent in the piracy issue.

    Also, getting all of the different networks and movie dev companies to sign on? Highly unlikely. I imagine it would have been done already if it were easy.

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