Are all dk now enemies/traitors to the horde?

[Deleted]

Death Knights have been traitors since day one. I can't understand why Tirion didn't just kill those mongrels on the spot at the Light's Hope Chapel. Well, okay. Tirion was a follower of the Light which means that he has to do good deeds but Grommash shouldn't have allowed DKs to join the Horde. Same goes with Varian.

Death Knights touch dead bodies. They steal humans. They resurrected Nazgrim even though Vol'jin didn't allow it.

Hopefully Khadgar will shoot down Acherus in 7.2 or something.

By the way, death knights attacked an innocent holy priest Revil Kost and almost kill him just to get some information during the artifact questline. Why hasn't Anduin condemned that?

[Mehrunes]

Um...everywhere?

Literally no part that you underlined says anything about the weapon growing stronger over time.

By the way, death knights attacked an innocent holy priest Revil Kost and almost kill him just to get some information during the artifact questline. Why hasn't Anduin condemned that?

Pretty sure you can argue your way out of that. At least you can on a Warlock. Can't be too sure about a DK because I specifically went for combat option to play it differently that time.

Now, does that make the Horde death knights traitors? That depends. In MoP, one of the advance scouts you quest with in Jade Forest identifies an Alliance adventurer you have to kill for a quest as "like you--marginally-affiliated and highly dangerous." Given the total lack of oversight our characters receive even at low levels, barring questlines like Stonetalon Horde that see our character explicitly sign up with the local army, it's apparent we work outside the chain of command from the word "Go."

Jade Forest in general isn't the best example of that though, given how we work under orders of Nazgrim there and are an official member of his expedition into Pandaria.

Horde players outright defied their then-Warchief through most of MoP's patch content, between swearing a pact with Vol'jin, helping Lor'themar gather up weapons and power to turn against Garrosh if push came to shove, and finally outright joining a rebellion in its infancy and purging the Kor'kron from the Barrens before pushing through Durotar to take Orgrimmar from him. Horde players were also completely complicit in Koltira's little stunt, something Sylvanas is well aware of--but she lets us off with nothing more than a warning while Koltira takes the heat, because Koltira had fully integrated into the Forsaken.

Because the rebellion was brewing for much longer than 5.3 and Blizzard pigeonholed players into joining it from the get go. It was obvious we'd be going against Garrosh the moment Blizzard said he'll be the final villain of the expansion. The factions attacked by the Ebon Blade aren't. And the player was ordered not to speak of Koltira's nonsense by him, i.e. a direct superior. We were just following orders. Koltira wasn't.

So, depending on your point of view, the Horde player character has already betrayed the Horde for the Horde's own good before. The ingame story makes it repeatedly apparent that they have no trouble putting faction loyalty aside if their faction is a danger to itself as much as to its enemies (like when Garrosh began to run the Horde into the ground and saw loss after loss in the Pandaria campaign as the Horde splintered underneath him). Saving the Horde from itself is pretty much their hobby at this point. This goes double for death knights, as your allegiance is ultimately proven to be with the Ebon Blade first and foremost. It's like Thassarian says in the starting quests: "In death, we are all brothers."

While the Horde characters did indeed betray the Horde, I'm not sure how that matters for the Ebon Blade. Horde players were on the winning side while Garrosh was the bad guy, so obviously they faced no repercussions (even before Garrosh actually became a villain in-lore which makes little sense but is typical for Blizzard). The Ebon Blade didn't attack the villain though, it attacked the other forces on the right side of things, which makes the lack of repercussions for them low even by Blizzard standards.

[Thage]

Jade Forest in general isn't the best example of that though, given how we work under orders of Nazgrim there and are an official member of his expedition into Pandaria.

First, thanks for the reply! I wanna preface all this by emphasizing that I do agree with your points, except where noted below. That being said, even in Pandaria when Garrosh goes full HitStalin we're given a surprising level of operational freedom. We're pretty much given carte blanche to secure alliances with the pandaren as we see fit, something no other characters in the Horde enjoyed before or after his reign.

Because the rebellion was brewing for much longer than 5.3 and Blizzard pigeonholed players into joining it from the get go. It was obvious we'd be going against Garrosh the moment Blizzard said he'll be the final villain of the expansion. The factions attacked by the Ebon Blade aren't. And the player was ordered not to speak of Koltira's nonsense by him, i.e. a direct superior. We were just following orders. Koltira wasn't.

To be fair, players have always been pidgeonholed into a fairly set personality by quest chatter and gossip options. It's part of the double-edged sword of having an established storyline in an RPG, and part of the reason why there's a general, unspoken moratorium on RP servers about trying to claim your accomplishments in major questlines as your own (if everyone's the hero who killed Onyxia, nobody is, basically).

While the Horde characters did indeed betray the Horde, I'm not sure how that matters for the Ebon Blade. Horde players were on the winning side while Garrosh was the bad guy, so obviously they faced no repercussions (even before Garrosh actually became a villain in-lore which makes little sense but is typical for Blizzard). The Ebon Blade didn't attack the villain though, it attacked the other forces on the right side of things, which makes the lack of repercussions for them low even by Blizzard standards.

I don't think they'll be getting out of it scot-free, mind you. I'm pretty certain that as the patches progress, the Silver Hand is going to have more than a few choice words for the Deathlord given he/she is operating on the Lich King's "advice," which could set up a new Scourge expansion down the road where the Ebon Blade have to decide once and for all, after spending years as the 'dirty deeds' guys straddling the line, whether their interests lay with Azeroth or not. With Leigon's focus on class orders over the Alliance and Horde outside Stormheim (even in 7.1, it looks like Tyrande, Vereesa, and Liadrin have struck up a wary truce to back the Nightfallen rebels), I don't buy that they're just going to leave things as they lay now when they've got two years' worth of patch storylines to pick up some of the jucier bits like ramifications for how the Ebon Blade went about raising their Four Horsemen.

On a slight, but related, tangent, I also see their story progressing as a foil to Sylvanas's: she's becoming more and more like the Lich King, while the Ebon Blade are visibly reverting to bad habits under the current Lich King's advice. Where Sylvanas seeks to find new ways to control and subjugate, as seen in the Stormheim Alliance/Horde finale, the Ebon Blade is going to have to figure out just how tight and cuddly they want their "alliance" with Bolvar to be and whether or not he's playing them. And they're both gonna have to make a choice before Legion's over, believe you me.

[Deleted]

Sooo...
The guy who forged the Maw of the Damned was all Yaoi-Yandere towards Kil'jaeden?

[Aucald]

Sooo...
The guy who forged the Maw of the Damned was all Yaoi-Yandere towards Kil'jaeden?

I'm not overly familiar with anime terms, but I think the intention was more to devour his soul and supplant his position in the Legion. Before becoming a demon you might consider him "yandere," though.

[UnluckyAmateur]

Sooo...
The guy who forged the Maw of the Damned was all Yaoi-Yandere towards Kil'jaeden?

Essentially yes, having an OD on fel tends to take simple admiration and turns it into obsession.

[Deleted]

Essentially yes, having an OD on fel tends to take simple admiration and turns it into obsession.

Because Sempai should only belong to him?

[UnluckyAmateur]

Because Sempai should only belong to him?

Kil'Jaeden, why won't you notice me?

[Aucald]

Kil'Jaeden, why won't you notice me?

He definitely noticed him in the end, though. Not in the manner I think Netrezaar wanted, but notice all the same.

[Deleted]

Do you guys think that Blizzards knows how utterly Yaoi this Artifact-Story sounds?

[Friendlyimmolation]

Do you guys think that Blizzards knows how utterly Yaoi this Artifact-Story sounds?

is yaoi mean forbidden love or something.

[Deleted]

is yaoi mean forbidden love or something.

It's japanese for gay.

[Deleted]

is yaoi mean forbidden love or something.

Yaoi is the sound ghouls make when the DK summons it.

[Deleted]

Literally no part that you underlined says anything about the weapon growing stronger over time.

Yes, because the Legion fears a weapon that can simply steal souls. Not like they craft them on regular basis.
I guess you believe that after the Maw consumed the essence of a living being, it will fart it away or something like that.

It's written there that the legion fears the maw because the soul of natreezar consumed entire civilizations. I don't think tthere are many ways you can interpret this information.

[Zulkhan]

is yaoi mean forbidden love or something.

Nah, it's the equivalent of Yuri (femaleXfemale) for the maleXmale affair.

[Friendlyimmolation]

It's japanese for gay.

So that tweek and craig episode of southpark

- - - Updated - - -

Nah, it's the equivalent of Yuri (femaleXfemale) for the maleXmale affair.

So was some demon actually gay for Kil'jaeden and wanted him dead? Guess I gotta finish playing my dk.

[Barael]

Too spoopy to live, too creppy to die we do what the living cannot.

[Zulkhan]

So was some demon actually gay for Kil'jaeden and wanted him dead? Guess I gotta finish playing my dk.

Me too. Even though I suspect is just M-Ra making it gay because she loves make everything gay.

[Mehrunes]

First, thanks for the reply! I wanna preface all this by emphasizing that I do agree with your points, except where noted below. That being said, even in Pandaria when Garrosh goes full HitStalin we're given a surprising level of operational freedom. We're pretty much given carte blanche to secure alliances with the pandaren as we see fit, something no other characters in the Horde enjoyed before or after his reign.

Yeah, I didn't mean the entire Pandaria. Just Jade Forest specifically. After the battle you're separated from the team and pretty much left on your own with no way to contact any Horde leadership. And then a bit in Kun-Lai after we meet again and Nazgrim uses us to recruit some Pandaren survivors.

To be fair, players have always been pidgeonholed into a fairly set personality by quest chatter and gossip options. It's part of the double-edged sword of having an established storyline in an RPG, and part of the reason why there's a general, unspoken moratorium on RP servers about trying to claim your accomplishments in major questlines as your own (if everyone's the hero who killed Onyxia, nobody is, basically).

Yeah, that much is a given. I meant it in less than a platitude way and wanted to put emphasis on specific circumstances of that particular situation and why us betraying the Horde back then may not be as relevant to Ebon Blade's shenanigans. Blizzard obviously let the Horde fracture and have Horde players play on different sides. And after all, Garrosh didn't take kindly to our betrayal. And once Garrosh was down, Vol'jin wasn't going to punish us, his bruddamons that helped him depose Garrosh. Then there's the part where Garrosh kicked all non-Orcs (and loyalist ones at that) from his Horde on top of all of that. As such us not facing any repercussions doesn't have to reflect in any particular way on the Ebon Blade. In fact, Blizzard pidgeonholing us in specific directions may come in play once again, for the Death Knights players, by forcing them to help reign their organization in somehow.

I don't think they'll be getting out of it scot-free, mind you. I'm pretty certain that as the patches progress, the Silver Hand is going to have more than a few choice words for the Deathlord given he/she is operating on the Lich King's "advice," which could set up a new Scourge expansion down the road where the Ebon Blade have to decide once and for all, after spending years as the 'dirty deeds' guys straddling the line, whether their interests lay with Azeroth or not. With Leigon's focus on class orders over the Alliance and Horde outside Stormheim (even in 7.1, it looks like Tyrande, Vereesa, and Liadrin have struck up a wary truce to back the Nightfallen rebels), I don't buy that they're just going to leave things as they lay now when they've got two years' worth of patch storylines to pick up some of the jucier bits like ramifications for how the Ebon Blade went about raising their Four Horsemen.

Well, given how Liadrin doesn't have any unusual text for DK players (then again who knows, maybe it was added later in the PTR) despite her being the one that almost died during the assault I wouldn't be so certain. Then again they did say they are going to continue Class Halls' storylines at some point. But in light of Liadrin it would kinda smell of different teams working on different patches and them not communicating enough with each other.

On a slight, but related, tangent, I also see their story progressing as a foil to Sylvanas's: she's becoming more and more like the Lich King, while the Ebon Blade are visibly reverting to bad habits under the current Lich King's advice. Where Sylvanas seeks to find new ways to control and subjugate, as seen in the Stormheim Alliance/Horde finale, the Ebon Blade is going to have to figure out just how tight and cuddly they want their "alliance" with Bolvar to be and whether or not he's playing them. And they're both gonna have to make a choice before Legion's over, believe you me.

Well, first of all, I'm leaning towards Sylvanas aiming to steal the power of the Val'kyr instead of subjugating Eyir, as Azsuna questing indicated, since it's more in-line with Sylvanas' character and ideals of the Forsaken, as well as being the more rational choice given her track record even with people who thought were her loyal subordinates. But that aside, I'm not seeing how Ebon Blade is supposed to serve as a foil to Sylvanas. If they are busy with Bolvar and his potential shenanigans (and then there's the Legion and the Class campaign), they'd have much less time to check up on Sylvanas.

Yes, because the Legion fears a weapon that can simply steal souls. Not like they craft them on regular basis.
I guess you believe that after the Maw consumed the essence of a living being, it will fart it away or something like that.

It's written there that the legion fears the maw because the soul of natreezar consumed entire civilizations. I don't think tthere are many ways you can interpret this information.

And that still says nothing about it growing in power. Could have very well be this powerful from the start given the materials used to craft it. If some extremely powerful demon used a butter knife to destroy entire civilizations would there be anything to assume the butter knife became more powerful in the process? And the only things the story says about the weapon consuming more and more life essence is that it only made the hunger of Natrezaar stronger. You're conjuring parts that aren't there to fill (potential) gaps. I.e. headcanon. I guess I, on the other hand, believe what is actually written. Which is that Natrezaar indeed consume some essence (with no effects of that consumption other than only increasing his hunger instead of actually satiating it being mentioned) and that the part that he did not consume would instead fuel the wielder. So most of that essence ended in Gorelix, not in the Maw.

Me too. Even though I suspect is just M-Ra making it gay because she loves make everything gay.

The story says only that he was obsessed about him. Nothing about romantic feelings in particular.

[Zulkhan]

The story says only that he was obsessed about him. Nothing about romantic feelings in particular.

Heh, I suspected as much.