Americans work 25% more than Europeans

[Docturphil]

"Bitch please" is pretty much what I'd say to someone who is 28 and thinks he has worked hard in his life. Especially when he went to a college and didn't even work for a whole year(?) because he was bed-ridden?
As I said, not every life is the same, not every situation is the same, just because you managed to do it, doesn't mean the person next to you who put in more effort can do it too. That's just not how the world works, sadly.
You got a job that pays good money, good for you bruh. Tell that to the dude who is working 50h/week, you know really hard work that will cripple you in 20-30 years, tell him he's lazy. Wtf.

People like to delude themselves that *they* have "done" it, "*I* made it myself" - most of these things aren't in your hands though, the very fact that you even got a chance at something to show your mad hard working skillz is one thing for example.

It's not 100% luck, it's not 100% work. It's a mix of both and there *are* cases out there that have simply no chance to get out of their mess, believe it or not.

I'm glad that I don't have to face any of these hardships, because as I mentioned, it can work without all that trouble.

No, not every life is the same. Different people will get different results from doing nearly the same thing. But I think it's pretty rare that those results are so vastly different like you're suggesting.

And I'm certainly not claiming to be the hardest worker in America. I believe I'm at about the success level I should be at for how hard I've worked, which is probably only a few steps above the average American.

Also, I've had the back breaking job before. I used to work in a stone quarry and fucking stack stones. It sucked. I had a certain pride from doing it because it was hard work, but it still sucked. And no, people who do that are not lazy. What they are is unmotivated. They are unmotivated to find themselves a better career. There is no reason anyone should have to stay in a job like that if they don't want to.

You say there are people who are stuck in situations that are inescapable. If you're talking about a third world country, sure. In America I think those cases are extremely rare. With a population of over 300 million, sure you'll have some cases even in a 1st world country, but they're extremely rare.

If you're mentally stable, have all 4 limbs, and aren't bound to a bed most of the time due to an illness, you should do just fine in America. And even in a lot of those cases you'll probably get some pretty good assistance from the government.

[Sentynel]

We also have better cigarettes.

I could argue on that one.

[zenkai]

No, not every life is the same. Different people will get different results from doing nearly the same thing. But I think it's pretty rare that those results are so vastly different like you're suggesting.

And I'm certainly not claiming to be the hardest worker in America. I believe I'm at about the success level I should be at for how hard I've worked, which is probably only a few steps above the average American.

Also, I've had the back breaking job before. I used to work in a stone quarry and fucking stack stones. It sucked. I had a certain pride from doing it because it was hard work, but it still sucked. And no, people who do that are not lazy. What they are is unmotivated. They are unmotivated to find themselves a better career. There is no reason anyone should have to stay in a job like that if they don't want to.

Also some people enjoy manual labor, I work with guys who can't understand how I can sit at a desk all day.

[AeneasBK]

I could argue on that one.

My preferred brand is Lucky Strikes which I think are as about as American as they come, so I'm gonna side with Hubcap on this...

[Docturphil]

Also some people enjoy manual labor, I work with guys who can't understand how I can sit at a desk all day.

Absolutely. I get it. But if you want to do manual labor and still have a decent career you totally can. Get into a trade. Union electricians, carpenters, iron workers, operators, plumbers, sprinkler fitters, etc... do very well for themselves.

[AeneasBK]

In the US, a single person pays a pretty high tax rate on overtime pay. I think it's done based on a per-check estimation where each check is taxed based on the annual income at that check's rate or something like that. So if you make, for example, $10/hr @ 40 hrs = $400 * 52 weeks, that's $20,800 (minus deductions, etc, to figure taxable income), but if you work 10 hours overtime, the taxable income portion is based on $550 * 52 weeks, or $28,600.

One of the things that confused me about taxes but that I thought I had cleared up is that you are taxed from the bracket as you earn through it, so the first 5k you earn pays no tax (ballpark figure) then you pay 20% on the 7k from 5k to 12k, then you pay 25% on the 8k from 12k t o20k etc. etc. So while your earnings at the end of the year might be over 500k, (which for arguments sake is where you're paying 60% tax), you only pay 60% on the earnings above 500k.

Im' very confused as to how working extra hours could actually shrink the "net take home" amount; I could see how overtime hours might actually end up paying less take home than non overtime hours; and as such people would refuse to work more than a certian number; but to work more hours in a week will always lead to more money to take home; even if it isn't proportional, right? Even if you're only making $2 per hour on the 58th and 59th hour of work you will still take home those $4...?

Or does it work on a rebate system where they tax all of your pay at the highest possible bracket and then give you back what you are overtaxed?

Don't get me wrong the topic isn't particularly fascinating so if you wanna just reply "ugh cba" I'd totally understand

[Mihalik]

I live in Europe...and I work in average 60 hours a week. Haven't had time to play WoW in ages. I try to keep an active social life... especially on weekends. So I surrender most of sleep hours ;(. Haven't sleept more than 5 hours in ages either. Except on Saturdays and Sundays when I sleep in until the GF drags me out of bed.

Of course there are always outliers everywhere. The thing is...if you run your own business or work in a multinational corporate environment... You end up working insane hours no matter what, even when you aren't at the office, you are half working.

[Azadina]

Join my company. 32 hours a week (6 each day and 7 H/F). 25 days of PTO per year, and 1 additional day per year of work up to 35 days per year. Industry competitive salaries.

Plus we're near the beach, super cool xD

Sounds nice! It's abiiiit too far tho

[Mistame]

One of the things that confused me about taxes but that I thought I had cleared up is that you are taxed from the bracket as you earn through it, so the first 5k you earn pays no tax (ballpark figure) then you pay 20% on the 7k from 5k to 12k, then you pay 25% on the 8k from 12k t o20k etc. etc. So while your earnings at the end of the year might be over 500k, (which for arguments sake is where you're paying 60% tax), you only pay 60% on the earnings above 500k.

Im' very confused as to how working extra hours could actually shrink the "net take home" amount; I could see how overtime hours might actually end up paying less take home than non overtime hours; and as such people would refuse to work more than a certian number; but to work more hours in a week will always lead to more money to take home; even if it isn't proportional, right? Even if you're only making $2 per hour on the 58th and 59th hour of work you will still take home those $4...?

Or does it work on a rebate system where they tax all of your pay at the highest possible bracket and then give you back what you are overtaxed?

Don't get me wrong the topic isn't particularly fascinating so if you wanna just reply "ugh cba" I'd totally understand

Basically, it works like this (I think):

Gross * 52 - Standard Deduction ($6300, 2015 single) = Taxable Income * Tax Rate (Varies depending on taxable income. we'll use 15%) / 52

So, using my previous example,

$400 * 52 - $6300 = $14,500 * 0.15 / 52 = $41.83
$400 + $150 (10 * 1.5 * 10) * 52 - $6300 = $22,300 * 0.15 / 52 = $64.33

Note that this is federal only (state, ssi, etc change it more) and that such an increase would also yield a higher tax bracket, which is what most people have a problem with. Now, at the end of the year, their actual annual earnings are calculated and taxes applied appropriately. Any excess is returned to them. So at paycheck-level, it seems like you're getting hit hard but it evens out once the actual earnings are calculated.

Personally, I just avoid overtime because it cuts into my midget porn time.

[Actarius]

Sounds nice! It's abiiiit too far tho

We have a second office in Philadelpia? :P

[Suporex]

Does this mean Americans suck at their jobs? Since they work more than Europeans but have a smaller economy. Seems to me like they're less efficient.

Maybe because the US is a country and not a continent.

Some people work more hours because they don't get paid a lot. Some people work more hours to get more money. Americans are much more materialistic than Europeans so to us money is much more important than free time.

[vastx]

I do 43 hours a week and get 7 weeks a year paid holiday leave.

American work culture is strange.

But see, it's different for a lot of people here in the United States. My scheduled work week is 40 hours. But to do what I need to do, I need to work at least 6 hours OT on average. But I usually end up working 50-55 hours per week. I don't mind it. I see people posting memes on facebook about being upset that it's Monday or extremely happy that it's Friday and they're about to be off for the weekend. I like work. And what I do is a mix of manual labor and critical thinking. It's nothing glorious, nothing that's going to better mankind. But I get satisfaction out of it and decent pay.

Some places in America don't permit overtime. Some places, you must agree to work whenever needed. It's agreed upon upfront. Some places offer 1 week paid vacation after certain amount of time, with more weeks added as time progresses. While some employers are stingy with labor costs, some offer more incentives, creating competition. I think it's healthy, but I understand some people work just for a paycheck and don't really care about their job. It's a means to an end. So I can understand that they'd want more benefits, just trying to get as much as they can get from that job. I'm the same way, but I extract what I want from my employer by hard work and no bullshitting. It works. Doesn't work that way for everyone.

[Sorrior]

I'm not sure you do, because same pay for less working hours is actually a thing they accomplish. Unless you are talking on an individual basis.
They work differently in America for sure, because it seems like workers have nearly no rights there. Why they are still unorganized like this is really questionable.
Why is this not a thing there?

Because unions basically git torn down worker rights destroyed and then alot of Americans were told unions are bad because union dues steal from your paycheck.

It is a bunch if political bs my dad and mom remember when unions were good and strong qnd both were in one. But these days they are borderline taboo and trying to firm one could probably get you fired sooo keep your head low and be a good little wage save became normal

[Rasulis]

Basically, it works like this (I think):

Gross * 52 - Standard Deduction ($6300, 2015 single) = Taxable Income * Tax Rate (Varies depending on taxable income. we'll use 15%) / 52

So, using my previous example,

$400 * 52 - $6300 = $14,500 * 0.15 / 52 = $41.83
$400 + $150 (10 * 1.5 * 10) * 52 - $6300 = $22,300 * 0.15 / 52 = $64.33

Note that this is federal only (state, ssi, etc change it more) and that such an increase would also yield a higher tax bracket, which is what most people have a problem with. Now, at the end of the year, their actual annual earnings are calculated and taxes applied appropriately. Any excess is returned to them. So at paycheck-level, it seems like you're getting hit hard but it evens out once the actual earnings are calculated.

Personally, I just avoid overtime because it cuts into my midget porn time.

My field personnel would kill for overtime. Normally we don’t do overtime unless we have prior written approval from the public agency that employ us. In public work, anything over 8 hr/day or 40 hr/week is 1.5x, Saturday is 1.5x and Sunday is 2x even if you have less than 40 hrs that week.

I remember a dam project that we did in 1999. The agency had never done a project that size before. They were working two 10-hour shifts, 7 days a week. Half way through the project, they realized that they were going to go over budget because of over time. I had two field inspectors that made 200k each that year. The sad part was that my partner and I as owners were not making near that much back then. Even the PMs and REs on that project were not making that much.

[Mistame]

My field personnel would kill for overtime. Normally we don’t do overtime unless we have prior written approval from the public agency that employ us. In public work, anything over 8 hr/day or 40 hr/week is 1.5x, Saturday is 1.5x and Sunday is 2x even if you have less than 40 hrs that week.

Overtime where I work requires physically working for 40 hours to get it. If you take vacation, sick time or a holiday and have to work on a day you're scheduled off, you get straight time. Needless to say, I don't answer the phone if it's during one of those weeks.

[Dundebuns]

The UK is heading this way. The current Government is keen to severely reduce workers rights, and by getting rid of the EU Human Rights act, it will be much easier for them to do so.

[Deleted]

43 hour weeks x 45 weeks = 1935

35 hour week x 48 weeks = 1680
_____
255 hours (/40 per week roughly = 6 weeks)

You're an area manager for a retail chain? Even with 7 weeks holiday, you're still working 6 weeks more hours than the "average" full timer, which effectively makes it 1 weeks holiday... I'd be bargaining for another 2 weeks holiday at least but then I know nothing of your position.

Just a 43 hour week seemed a bit harsh for someone who isn't a chef or doing it by choice.

Thankfully i'm only a logistics manager, if I were an area manager i'd be working a lot more than 43 hours.

I could probably bargain for more holiday days, but i'm pretty happy with what I have, the money is great, 43 hours is pretty easy to cover in a week (10-7 5 nights a week, with a bit of stay behind somedays usually covers me).

The only downside to my job imo is that because its related to retail, i'm expected to work over Christmas, but luckily I work back end now, so no more dealing with customers.

[Mormolyce]

Work here in Australia is generally 40 hours with 4 weeks paid leave. Additional benefits vary from employer to employer. I guess we're in between the US and Europe in that sense.

Europe spent centuries fighting for employee rights, so they got them. The US has this strange culture where people sometimes seem to be proud of the fact their employer fucks them over.

[Captain N]

Because unions basically git torn down worker rights destroyed and then alot of Americans were told unions are bad because union dues steal from your paycheck.

It is a bunch if political bs my dad and mom remember when unions were good and strong qnd both were in one. But these days they are borderline taboo and trying to firm one could probably get you fired sooo keep your head low and be a good little wage save became normal

And unfortunately you have the masses of people who would see much larger paychecks if they would stop buying into that silliness. Yeah there's Union dues -- my own are about $215/month. In exchange for it I get $200/month insurance that covers my entire family and I make $588/day if I work up to 9 hours and OT after that. There's even that seniority based ability to set my own schedule and get the days off I want.

Heck one of the other rail yards I used to frequent has started looking for Custodians...Union Custodians making $188/day. That's $23.50/hour for people to pick up garbage and clean a toilet or two. I think there's a good amount of people on these very forums that don't even make that much money with their college degrees and experience.

[Asiwassaying]

I'd work less if I was paid more.

Crazy how it works out. I'm the only person at my job who only works one job. Everyone else works full time plus, or is in their 50s and finally got to a position that pays them enough.

Hell. I was offered a supervisor slot THAT PAID ME LESS. So getting promoted doesn't even pan out all the time. The system is fucked.

- - - Updated - - -

And unfortunately you have the masses of people who would see much larger paychecks if they would stop buying into that silliness. Yeah there's Union dues -- my own are about $215/month. In exchange for it I get $200/month insurance that covers my entire family and I make $588/day if I work up to 9 hours and OT after that. There's even that seniority based ability to set my own schedule and get the days off I want.

Heck one of the other rail yards I used to frequent has started looking for Custodians...Union Custodians making $188/day. That's $23.50/hour for people to pick up garbage and clean a toilet or two. I think there's a good amount of people on these very forums that don't even make that much money with their college degrees and experience.

I'm not anti union. But I must say that unions problem is that most people have no clue how to join and they are also locked out of union only jobs. If unions want universal support, they need to make it so anyone can join easily.

Otherwise they do "me" no good. Why should I (Jon Q Public) support unions when I am not a part of one and I can't be hired for that nice paying job anyway?