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[TITAN308]

Give them an inch, they'll take a mile. So, we can't give them that inch. They have all the queuable content that they need -- if they want harder content, they have to put in the work... because it's going to require it at some point. A barrier to entry is the game's way of saying, "this content might not be for you."

Or at the very least a barrier that says, "You have to come out of your safe zone, just a little bit."

[SirCowdog]

The problem is that when you make the content queuable, you have to make it easy enough that people who rely on queuing will be able to complete it. Eventually, we're going to hit normal mode content that these people are going to have a problem with.

Take Siege of Orgrimmar as an example. Most of the fights were very easy on flex mode, right? But once you got to Garrosh (or perhaps another boss or two), you hit an organization/skill check that started to require actual communication and ability from the people in the raid. If you make it queuable, these "baddies" will start complaining just as hard as they complain about everything else and Blizzard will be forced to make changes.

Give them an inch, they'll take a mile. So, we can't give them that inch. They have all the queuable content that they need -- if they want harder content, they have to put in the work... because it's going to require it at some point. A barrier to entry is the game's way of saying, "this content might not be for you."

Well that's the point, isn't it? Regular mythic is NOT difficult. It's somewhere between cata heroics and current heroics. Again, I also have to point out that these levels of difficulty are not mutually exclusive. And even if Mythic 20+ or whatever was in the matchmaker for "t3h casualz!!!", what is wrong with letting them go in and get absolutely annihilated? And when they complain and call for nerfs just say "Too bad, it's supposed to be hard!"

This idea that matchmaking automatically makes people worse is a misconception. Vote-kicking is there for a reason to remove bad players. LFG is there if you get sick of matchmaking with scrubs. Both of these things can be in the game at the same time. It's not a war. You don't lose the ability to use LFG because OTHER PEOPLE are using matchmaking.

[Brocksley]

The problem for me is that it takes time to find a group. 20+ minutes of spamming request to join a group. In that time I can't do other things, just keep trying to join every group I see that pops up. With queueable content I can queue up and then go do quests or farm mats while I wait. I like playing the game, not waiting to play the game. That was the original draw to the system when it was first implemented.

[Snuffleupagus]

Realistically they should merge parts of LFG and LFD/R. You should be able to queue up, but instead of automatchmaking, it presents you as an option for a listed group.

But I agree that it is baffling why "make your own group" is somehow considered rude or trolling.

Most of the people who fearmonger about people being kicked mid run etc. are people that probably ahould be kicked. Body pulling, poor AoE placement, and standing in fire is rampant in LFD/R because they are never held accountable.

Starting your own group means you have the right to:
- Set minimum ilvl
- Be picky about what class you want
- Kick bad players

A lot of the bad players on forums dislike this and feel entitled to crash someone else's party because we tell kids that they can do aanything (they can't), and we award people for participating.

As far as excuses go:
- Most of the anxiety issues are made up/self diagnosed
- Most of the stories of terrible Nazi pug leaders are made up or severely exaggerated

There are people on this very forum who claim to have the ability to do high level Mythic+, play 12 hours a day, and yet normal raiding is a challenge.

Now, that's not to say Blizzard can't mitigate some of the terrible things you find.
- Remove kick ability during boss fights.
- Above quasi-automisation of queueing up

But realistically, the majority of complaints come from entitled brats who are so hopelessly addicted to WoW that there is no point catering to them.

[SirCowdog]

The problem for me is that it takes time to find a group. 20+ minutes of spamming request to join a group. In that time I can't do other things, just keep trying to join every group I see that pops up. With queueable content I can queue up and then go do quests or farm mats while I wait. I like playing the game, not waiting to play the game. That was the original draw to the system when it was first implemented.

EXACTLY this! Staring at the LFG tool instead of actually playing the game is the worst!

[Belloc]

Well that's the point, isn't it? Regular mythic is NOT difficult. It's somewhere between cata heroics and current heroics. Again, I also have to point out that these levels of difficulty are not mutually exclusive. And even if Mythic 20+ or whatever was in the matchmaker for "t3h casualz!!!", what is wrong with letting them go in and get absolutely annihilated? And when they complain and call for nerfs just say "Too bad, it's supposed to be hard!"

This idea that matchmaking automatically makes people worse is a misconception. Vote-kicking is there for a reason to remove bad players. LFG is there if you get sick of matchmaking with scrubs. Both of these things can be in the game at the same time. It's not a war. You don't lose the ability to use LFG because OTHER PEOPLE are using matchmaking.

The problem is that, when people use matchmaking, they expect the content to be tuned for their skill level. Unfortunately, not all people who use matchmaking have enough skill for mythic 5-mans or normal raiding, no matter how easy that might be.

Nothing is stopping them from going in and getting annihilated except for the fact that they aren't willing to do content that doesn't involve matchmaking. It is, honestly, the perfect barrier. People who want the content and can handle it, won't be stopped by that barrier. People who can't handle the content will be discouraged by the barrier. That's exactly the way I think it should be.

[Sencha]

Just one of many: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...9867248?page=1

You can add this one: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749757725

and see how the second poster get downvoted, yet his answer is just common sense...

[Alfador]

The problem for me is that it takes time to find a group. 20+ minutes of spamming request to join a group. In that time I can't do other things, just keep trying to join every group I see that pops up. With queueable content I can queue up and then go do quests or farm mats while I wait. I like playing the game, not waiting to play the game. That was the original draw to the system when it was first implemented.

When I'm looking for mythics I just run the LFG tool, refresh every so often, and put out invites to the ones I want into. It's not hard and it really doesnot take much time away from playing. At the risk of sounding elitist, if you can't manage the multitasking of that with playing you probably don't belong in the content that requires it in the first place.

[Deleted]

Queue is the future. Queue is life.

[Deadite]

So.... make your own then?

If you question them why they don't create and form their own group then the excuses start rolling in. (or they never answer)

Why would a tank or healer join your 830 group when they can get 3 860+ dps within 5 seconds? That is the real hurdle people face. Mythics are a buyers market.

[Clozer]

Because making my own group solves the problems of not having a tank/healer.

I just did that 2 days ago, after reading everywhere "CREATE YOUR OWN GROUP, I SEE NO PROBLEM HERE", i invited 2 dps with the same ilvl as me in about 5 minutes and then i waited 2 1/2 hours for tank/healer to apply until i gave up. That was fun. If i have to wait this time ie in a queue, at least i'm sure i can get something after waiting.

There is a problem and qq/discussions are needed, but you just qq about qq and i guess that's just useless.

[Tharkkun]

Your argument would make sense if the game didn't already have half of its content able to be auto queued at the push of a button

Skirms, BGs, LFR, HCs, Normals, Seasonal bosses that is.

There are good arguments for why mythic+ shouldn't be queueable , but I think normal raid and mythic 0 should be queueable. They're trivially easy and are filled with people wanting boosted in 820 gear asking for 860 players to clear content that drops 850 loot.

That said, i'm not one of these people that really has a problem with joining pugs or making groups, even if I do have social anxiety.

- - - Updated - - -



this isn't really relevant at all

most of the people 'moaning' about not being able to queue to everything are the casuals that log on for a 'cheeky game of warcraft' in the space between when they need to pick up the kids and when the wife comes home. Its not the guy who plays 80 hours a week.

So you mean to say that Blizzard's content in WoW is diverse and caters to many different play styles? Good to know.

[Berengil]

Or at the very least a barrier that says, "You have to come out of your safe zone, just a little bit."

No I don't. I only do things I can solo or queue for. Been that way since lfd at the end of wotlk.

Before lfr, I only did previous xpac raids that I could solo because I over-leveled them. There is literally nothing Blizz can do to change this habit of mine.

Except for one thing.

If they fail to make enough solo/queueable content to keep me occupied, then I'll unsub until they put out some more.

[Auralan]

I dunno, every time I've made a Mythic group as a DPS, I sit there staring at the window for an hour or more. Because lets face it, if people don't want to accept an 840 DPS into a group, why would they join a group started by an 840 DPS?

Not to mention that tanks seem reluctant to join a group without a healer and healers seem reluctant to join a group without a tank. No one wants to risk waiting, I guess.

That said, when I start a group as a tank, the entire group just appears instantly it seems. Which is nice, but I understand that not every class in the game is a hybrid, and that maybe Rogues would like to play the game as well sometimes.

Maybe instead of posting about it on the forums, those dps could look for a guild to group with.
It's really not that hard to get into a decent guild, especially as a social, and run mythic + with guild mates.
Especially when, for example, some raiders make groups with alts and such.

This is the perfect time to do so, since there's a TON of guild with heroic EN on farm, and no desire / people to do mythic EN.
They all go level and gear alts, so make use of that. I main tank for my guild, but nobody minds going with my (extremely shitty) dps alts either.

No I don't. I only do things I can solo or queue for. Been that way since lfd at the end of wotlk.

Before lfr, I only did previous xpac raids that I could solo because I over-leveled them. There is literally nothing Blizz can do to change this habit of mine.

Except for one thing.

If they fail to make enough solo/queueable content to keep me occupied, then I'll unsub until they put out some more.

If you don't like the main endgame content in the way it's intended, Blizzard can do nothing to keep you around for a long time anyway.
But hey, if you can enjoy the game by only sporadically subbing, then that's awesome. I'm glad to see players with all sorts of preferences are finding ways to keep enjoying wow.

[Snuffleupagus]

"QQ too hurd to find tanks and healers"
- someone who likely plays a hybrid class or has 60 alts

"QQ I don't want to play anything but DPS"
- someone who should probably play an FPS

"QQ I don't want to join a guild or make any effort to be social in a multiplayer game"
- someone who is hopelessly addicted to.WoW and will never quit

"QQ I want the same rewards as everyone else while doing queued content only"
- unemployed/underage/emotionally stunted person who was lied to by his parents when they said he could do anything he put his mind to

"OMG how could you suggest that people leave this game of they aren't enjoying it"
- hopelessly addicted player

"OMG I'm not going to leave because I still enjoy parts of this game"
- addicted player in denial about their addiction

"QQ Blizz should listen to me because otherwise they will lose my money"
- someone who has spent hundreds of dollars outside of sub money on a game they don't enjoy

[Armourboy]

"QQ I don't want to play anything but DPS"
- someone who should probably play an FPS

This one really doesn't fit tbh. Some people just don't like the role of tanking or healing. I've done both a ton in years past, don't really do it anymore because in general I don't find it that enjoyable. Some people like playing a Rogue, they really shouldn't be looked down on just because they don't like playing a Priest, or a Druid, or a Paladin, or a Warrior. When you consider the amount of time people spend playing a class, I really don't blame anyone for playing something they don't enjoy just so they can find a group faster. I've seen way too many good people come and go over the years for basically that reason.

[Queen of Hamsters]

While I do agree with a lot in the OP, I just can't help but cringe whenever someone claims that the game has been "dumbed down"... You didn't exactly need to be a rocket scientist to play and create groups in WoW before the matchmaking tools came along. And what was so incredibly complex with the game that it required more brain power at any point before? Spoiler: It never was.

I think normal raid and mythic 0 should be queueable. They're trivially easy and are filled with people wanting boosted in 820 gear asking for 860 players to clear content that drops 850 loot.

Then there'd be no need for LFR.

I agree that 4 difficulties of raiding is a bad thing, but it wouldn't be remedied by taking ANOTHER raid difficulty and tuning it around pugs. Either they could remove Normal and have just LFR, HC and Mythic, or they could remove LFR and have Normal, HC and Mythic with no automated matchmaking.

[Kreeshak]

Maybe instead of posting about it on the forums, those dps could look for a guild to group with.
It's really not that hard to get into a decent guild, especially as a social, and run mythic + with guild mates.
Especially when, for example, some raiders make groups with alts and such.

This is the perfect time to do so, since there's a TON of guild with heroic EN on farm, and no desire / people to do mythic EN.
They all go level and gear alts, so make use of that. I main tank for my guild, but nobody minds going with my (extremely shitty) dps alts either.




If you don't like the main endgame content in the way it's intended, Blizzard can do nothing to keep you around for a long time anyway.
But hey, if you can enjoy the game by only sporadically subbing, then that's awesome. I'm glad to see players with all sorts of preferences are finding ways to keep enjoying wow.

But same problems happens inside guilds as well. Why would the rare healer or tank run with a 840 guild mate, when he can choose to go with a 860 guild mate?

[Queen of Hamsters]

But same problems happens inside guilds as well. Why would the rare healer or tank run with a 840 guild mate, when he can choose to go with a 860 guild mate?

Well, it'd be pretty obvious why if one bothered to join a guild with decent people... Even the top of the top players will bring people on their lower geared characters to help them towards a common goal. "Social" guilds are cancer most of the time so I wouldn't be surprised if everyone's out to serve him/herself in those cases.

[SirCowdog]

The problem is that, when people use matchmaking, they expect the content to be tuned for their skill level.

Where does this belief come from? Do you have any data to support this claim? And what is stopping "skilled" players from using the vote-kick function to remove and replace players who don't match up? What is stopping "skilled" players from continuing to use LFG to make their own exclusive groups? Nothing.

Unfortunately, not all people who use matchmaking have enough skill for mythic 5-mans or normal raiding, no matter how easy that might be.

Nothing is stopping them from going in and getting annihilated except for the fact that they aren't willing to do content that doesn't involve matchmaking. It is, honestly, the perfect barrier. People who want the content and can handle it, won't be stopped by that barrier. People who can't handle the content will be discouraged by the barrier. That's exactly the way I think it should be.

You're making the flawed assumption that everyone who uses matchmaking is low-skilled. When in reality many people use matchmaking for convenience, because they have screwy schedules, or other reasons for preferring to not deal with the unnecessary time-wasting of staring at the LFG tool. Why isn't the only barrier to the content the difficulty of the content itself. Why does there even NEED to be more than that?