BrM monk stat disparity

[porubezhnik]

You are rolling out of miasma often on mythic Ursoc no? Hard to use BoC outside of melee range.

Blackout Combo Usage 85/86 1 wasted
Tiger Palm 68/78 casts
Keg Smash 17/46 casts

Really miasma?

[keqe]

Blackout Combo Usage 85/86 1 wasted
Tiger Palm 68/78 casts
Keg Smash 17/46 casts

Really miasma?

Seems like he went for max DPS, which on Ursoc mythic is a good idea because of the tight enrage.

[Llarold]

You are rolling out of miasma often on mythic Ursoc no? Hard to use BoC outside of melee range.

Not at all. I cast roll twice in 5 minutes. The fight features a lot of boss movement, and remaining efficient is a bit more challenging than most fights in EN, but BoC still outperforms HT on Ursoc.

This is your Ursoc log: http://www.checkmywow.com/reports/3a...?tab=resources
Keg Smash 17/46 casts was affected by BoC combo proc.

Inefficient globals, you say?

Nope! I did not need the defenses of BlC-ing KS as much as the raid needed the damage of BlC-ed TP's. My only wasted BlC in the entire 5-minute fight came when I died to a missed tank swap. I can't cast while dead.

The bigger mark of inefficiency is the 46/52 KS casts and 86/103 BS casts. All I can say to that is "the boss moves."

Seems like he went for max DPS, which on Ursoc mythic is a good idea because of the tight enrage.

Precisely. The fight died 7 seconds past the enrage timer. Bosses do not care whether the damage came from a tank, a healer, or a Fire Mage.

[stross01]

This is your Ursoc log: http://www.checkmywow.com/reports/3a...?tab=resources
Keg Smash 17/46 casts was affected by BoC combo proc.

Inefficient globals, you say?

I've never used, or even knew about this site, but it is pretty basic, irrelevant, and inaccurate for anything other than an absolute Patchwerk fight.

Do people actually use things like this as a metric to their, or others', value?

Llarold's priority was fine to get results. His life is way too spiky for what you get out of it imo, but I'm not him nor his healers.

[porubezhnik]

I've never used, or even knew about this site, but it is pretty basic, irrelevant, and inaccurate for anything other than an absolute Patchwerk fight.

Do people actually use things like this as a metric to their, or others', value?

I used it just to show that "magic 6s KS" makes no sense at least at that fight - so magic "34% haste" do nothing special in reality - it's just 34% haste, and nothing more.

[Llarold]

I've never used, or even knew about this site, but it is pretty basic, irrelevant, and inaccurate for anything other than an absolute Patchwerk fight.

Do people actually use things like this as a metric to their, or others', value?

Llarold's priority was fine to get results. His life is way too spiky for what you get out of it imo, but I'm not him nor his healers.

I don't think it's useless, but it definitely doesn't give a full picture

I used it just to show that "magic 6s KS" makes no sense at least at that fight - so magic "34% haste" do nothing special in reality - it's just 34% haste, and nothing more.

I acquired Sal'Salabim's Lost Tunic during that raid, so you are basing your criticism of my 34% Haste on pulls in which I wasn't wearing it.
In this week's kill - for which I did have 34% Haste, my dps rose by 37k (despite another early death due to a missed taunt) and my KS efficiency rose by several percentage points. I also picked up the #1 Dragons parse along the way.

33.32% Haste isn't unusable while 33.34% Haste is perfect, but stat values aren't that customizable or granular. The community has roundly recommended 30% Haste as a "breakpoint," but the proper Haste value for maximizing ability usage without KS waste is actually 33.4%.

Fights with movement-based downtime do make the effects of your gear less efficient, but they do that regardless of what stats you're stacking - unless it's Speed.

[Saiyoran]

@Llarold
Why the fuck does your Special Delivery do 50-100% more damage than mine (when I shrink your fights down to the same length as mine) despite brew uses within 10-20% either way? Is there some trick I'm missing about making it proc more often?

[Llarold]

@Llarold
Why the fuck does your Special Delivery do 50-100% more damage than mine (when I shrink your fights down to the same length as mine) despite brew uses within 10-20% either way? Is there some trick I'm missing about making it proc more often?

Not that I know of, but in comparing some of our logs I appear to be using quite a lot more Brews.
Just looking at our last two Nythendra pulls (which were only ~15s apart in length), you had 23 Brew uses to my 58. On Elerethe, I had 71 and you had 17. Your SD damage on Elerethe was about 2/3 of mine, so I should ask you the same thing!

Special Delivery is great and definitely a better option than RJW once you have gear, but it can be frustratingly random.
I've cast six Brews in a row with zero SD's while adds are up, then as adds are dying gotten two SD's that hit absolutely nothing. It's obviously pretty bad during mobility phases, for the obvious reason, but once you get to stand still and chug away, it's excellent.

[Saiyoran]

Not that I know of, but in comparing some of our logs I appear to be using quite a lot more Brews.
Just looking at our last two Nythendra pulls (which were only ~15s apart in length), you had 23 Brew uses to my 58. On Elerethe, I had 71 and you had 17. Your SD damage on Elerethe was about 2/3 of mine, so I should ask you the same thing!

For Ursoc, I cast 45 and you cast 58, but i did 3M SD damage and you did 6M damage, that was the log I was looking at. RNG op i guess

[Llarold]

Well, that is a disparity of about 29% more Brews. Factor that into good/bad RNG and there you go, I suppose.

[porubezhnik]

I acquired Sal'Salabim's Lost Tunic during that raid, so you are basing your criticism of my 34% Haste on pulls in which I wasn't wearing it.
In this week's kill - for which I did have 34% Haste, my dps rose by 37k (despite another early death due to a missed taunt) and my KS efficiency rose by several percentage points. I also picked up the #1 Dragons parse along the way.

33.32% Haste isn't unusable while 33.34% Haste is perfect, but stat values aren't that customizable or granular. The community has roundly recommended 30% Haste as a "breakpoint," but the proper Haste value for maximizing ability usage without KS waste is actually 33.4%.

Fights with movement-based downtime do make the effects of your gear less efficient, but they do that regardless of what stats you're stacking - unless it's Speed.

OK. http://www.checkmywow.com/reports/Dk...?tab=resources
Or, if this resourse is "bad", you can check your raw log (just count KS before BC fade): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...00780%7C115181

Again,
Blackout Combo Usage
Tiger Palm 79/82 casts
Keg Smash 22/69 casts
Breath of Fire 1/63 casts

You said that goal to obtain 34% haste is to adjust KS with BC proc. But why you are using this proc for TP instead of KS?

[Hobbs]

OK. http://www.checkmywow.com/reports/Dk...?tab=resources
Or, if this resourse is "bad", you can check your raw log (just count KS before BC fade): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...00780%7C115181

Again,
Blackout Combo Usage
Tiger Palm 79/82 casts
Keg Smash 22/69 casts
Breath of Fire 1/63 casts

You said that goal to obtain 34% haste is to adjust KS with BC proc. But why you are using this proc for TP instead of KS?

I'm not sure what you're not understanding. They clearly needed the dps in his group so he used a ton of BoS empowered TP's. He's not denying that it makes him squishier. That doesn't change his point about KS. It's like you're trying to throw out his argument because he adapted on one fight.

[porubezhnik]

That doesn't change his point about KS. It's like you're trying to throw out his argument because he adapted on one fight.

His point - maybe. But I'm definitely don't understand why 34% haste become game-changer while his logs show that this change nothing: KS are wasted, and energy is cupped (Time not Energy-Capped: 347s / 452s). Maybe putting that extra haste in i.e. master or crit can get even better results?

At least, this guy also have 100% logs but only 23% mastery (from armory). Does he do something wrong?

[Powell]

BoC is better on paper, but you'll need to have a lot of practice and skill in order to pull it off.

How much better is it on paper exactly? If its like 2-5% better then i don't see the point with no room for error and over what duration of an encounter?

Even the most skilled players are still human and make mistakes. If there is no room for error with BoC, then i don't ever see it being better as there is no static rotation for tanking.

[Saverem]

How much better is it on paper exactly? If its like 2-5% better then i don't see the point with no room for error and over what duration of an encounter?

Even the most skilled players are still human and make mistakes. If there is no room for error with BoC, then i don't ever see it being better as there is no static rotation for tanking.

Well, it's hard to calculate because it not only brings defense (faster charges by using it w/KS, Mastery charge when using it w/purify, and less incoming damage by using it w/artifacted BoF) but it also increases your DPS with again, more uses of BoF as well as increasing your TP by 200% (My TP crits for over 500k damage when I use this and Face palm triggers, makes it great for questing DPS). Using it with IBF delays the damage for a few seconds which is helpful as well on those intense burst moments.

[Llarold]

OK.

Like I said on the previous page, one of the biggest gains from Sal'Salabim's Lost Tunic is that it opens up two distinct rotations, one for maximizing damage and the other for maximizing Brew Charges.

Max defense:
Keg Smash -> Breath of Fire -> Blackout Strike -> Tiger Palm -> Tiger Palm -> Blackout Strike -> Keg Smash, repeat
Max damage:
Keg Smash -> Blackout Strike -> Tiger Palm -> Breath of Fire -> Blackout Strike -> Tiger Palm -> Keg Smash, repeat

Other than when EK gets in the way (or during Bloodlust), this setup creates an incredibly smooth rotation in which you BlC-empower at least one TP every six seconds, two if you don't need the extra defenses from empowering your KS. This is a massive damage boost, and as you can see from logs on Ursoc (a mostly single target fight), TP is far and away my top damage skill.

He's not denying that it makes him squishier. That doesn't change his point about KS. It's like you're trying to throw out his argument because he adapted on one fight.

Exactly, and for what it's worth, I believe we only had one or two total wipes during Ursoc and Dragons prog that I felt was a direct result of me focusing on damage. Most deaths came from mechanical mistakes and couldn't have been salvaged had I put every BC into KS.

His point - maybe. But I'm definitely don't understand why 34% haste become game-changer while his logs show that this change nothing: KS are wasted, and energy is cupped (Time not Energy-Capped: 347s / 452s). Maybe putting that extra haste in i.e. master or crit can get even better results?

At least, this guy also have 100% logs but only 23% mastery (from armory). Does he do something wrong?

The only way that a 34% Haste build is 100% efficient is if the boss never moves, and that's true of any build. Boss movements are the same whether you have 34% Haste or 0% Haste.
Once the boss stops moving, however, the 34% Haste build completely overtakes a Mastery or Crit build in terms of rotational efficiency.

Simple case in point:
On your last Elerethe kill, you used 79.7% of your potential KS and 45.5% of your potential BS.
I used 85.5% of my potential KS and 71.3% of my potential BS.
Those disparities are glaring.
By comparison, I was resource-capped for 0.4% more of the fight than you.

As for Antifu, he's completely built for damage on the log you linked, wearing Cinidaria the Symbiote, Devilsaur's Bite, and Mark of the Hidden Satyr. Every bit of damage counts, so more power to him for it, but 11.8% of his damage in that log came from those gearing choices. Switching to a 34% Haste setup would improve his overall dps, but not as much as it would with a Sal'salabim's Lost Tunic.
Also, note that he is gemming and enchanting Haste. Sometimes you just can't get the gear you want.

Well, it's hard to calculate because it not only brings defense (faster charges by using it w/KS, Mastery charge when using it w/purify, and less incoming damage by using it w/artifacted BoF) but it also increases your DPS with again, more uses of BoF as well as increasing your TP by 200% (My TP crits for over 500k damage when I use this and Face palm triggers, makes it great for questing DPS). Using it with IBF delays the damage for a few seconds which is helpful as well on those intense burst moments.

This is true. Also, using Blackout Combo on Keg Smash reduces Black Ox Brew's cooldown by around another 30%. Between that and reducing Breath of Fire's cooldown by 40%, it's much more than 2-5% better than High Tolerance.

Edit: Long post.

[Hemanse]

Well, that is a disparity of about 29% more Brews. Factor that into good/bad RNG and there you go, I suppose.

Could you by any chance share your weakauras?

[Llarold]

Could you by any chance share your weakauras?

Absolutely! I've added them to my signature.

[Hemanse]

Absolutely! I've added them to my signature.

Cheers, currently using a blend of other peoples compilations and im not really liking it.

[Llarold]

Hopefully my setup works out better for you.