Blizzard is a game developer, not a licensed medical professional.

[daenerys]

If everyone makes their own group there would be no groups. Bad argument is bad.

He didn't argue that everyone should make their own group, only that you should make your own group if you can't find one for you when you're looking. The issue is that he can't find a group in the group finder that matches his needs. If this is the case, than there are certainly others with the same issue. If 5 people can't find a group that meets their own needs, guess what, after one of them makes a group, there magically is a group in the group finder that meets the needs of the other four that they can join. Simple logic and common sense, i guess isn't so simple and common for a lot of people now days sadly.

[daenerys]

But same problems happens inside guilds as well. Why would the rare healer or tank run with a 840 guild mate, when he can choose to go with a 860 guild mate?

As an i867 tank, I have no problem running with lower geared people. I want my raid group to progress as well as do well in 5 man dungeons. In fact it helps the raid the most to bring the lowest geared and thus the most need into 5 man groups.

[SirCowdog]

But for the sake of argument, let me go ahead and give you a possible scenario for what you seem to be implying will happen:

Mythic 0 goes into the matchmaking system. Hordes of baddies fail and complain to Blizzard. Blizzard listens and nerfs Mythic 0.

Ok, so? Mythic+ would still not be in the matchmaking, and the entire point of Mythic+ is that the difficulty increases based on how well you can do. The precious rewards and higher difficulties that are supposedly the sole, sovereign realm of "skilled" players still exists, and is safe from the unholy taint of casuals.

Now, if you were arguing against putting Mythic+ in the matchmaking system, I'd actually be inclined to agree with you. The risk of losing your own, valuable, keystone to some untested, unknown scrub, is too great. Blizzard is already having trouble with creating a fair solution to people leaving mythic+ groups part-way through. That would only be exacerbated by throwing matchmaking on top of it.

[Barnabas]

Where does this belief come from? Do you have any data to support this claim? And what is stopping "skilled" players from using the vote-kick function to remove and replace players who don't match up? What is stopping "skilled" players from continuing to use LFG to make their own exclusive groups? Nothing.




You're making the flawed assumption that everyone who uses matchmaking is low-skilled. When in reality many people use matchmaking for convenience, because they have screwy schedules, or other reasons for preferring to not deal with the unnecessary time-wasting of staring at the LFG tool. Why isn't the only barrier to the content the difficulty of the content itself. Why does there even NEED to be more than that?

Then the tank or healer that joined the mythic dungeon que has to leave or just wants to troll groups. Maybe you lose both? Your timer is ticking away waiting. There is really little consequence for people doing that. They can que again and again and again ruining groups all day because lols.

[Armourboy]

But for the sake of argument, let me go ahead and give you a possible scenario for what you seem to be implying will happen:

Mythic 0 goes into the matchmaking system. Hordes of baddies fail and complain to Blizzard. Blizzard listens and nerfs Mythic 0.

Ok, so? Mythic+ would still not be in the matchmaking, and the entire point of Mythic+ is that the difficulty increases based on how well you can do. The precious rewards and higher difficulties that are supposedly the sole, sovereign realm of "skilled" players still exists, and is safe from the unholy taint of casuals.

Now, if you were arguing against putting Mythic+ in the matchmaking system, I'd actually be inclined to agree with you. The risk of losing your own, valuable, keystone to some untested, unknown scrub, is too great. Blizzard is already having trouble with creating a fair solution to people leaving mythic+ groups part-way through. That would only be exacerbated by throwing matchmaking on top of it.

At a certain point Blizzard needs to grow some balls and just tell people that X is meant to be hard and they aren't changing it. It didn't really work with heroic the last time they tried because they let the cat out of the bag already. It wouldn't really be hard, just have a message box that pops up when you queue for it that says " this is intended to be hard, be prepared to fail ".

Really over the years though that has been the problem. Blizzard doesn't give the players enough info on the front end, they assume things, and then complain when the assumption doesn't meet the reality. I'm not entirely sure the issue with Cata heroics wouldn't have been mostly alleviated had they just told people in the game that heroics had been adjusted and they were now more difficult.

[A dot Ham]

The amount of people complaining about having to use LFG for forming Mythic groups is just baffling to me. Almost every argument boils down to:

- I can't get accepted to a group and I refuse to create my own
- I don't want to have to interact with people beyond clicking "Join Random Dungeon"

Along with these two arguments these people will come up with any tiny excuse as to why they just can't do it.

They all want Blizzard to magically somehow correct their anxiety behavioral problems / disorders (whether real or conjured up) through some sort of video game programming.

Before I joined my current guild I was able to CREATE groups for regular Mythics as a friggin Ret DPS on average in under 10 minutes. I never once had a toxic group. No one left. No one freaked out over a single wipe. Not one instance of someone going rage crazy.

This game has been dumbed down enough as is, with that said I personally don't have a problem for a LFG queue for Mythics. I just hate to see this game broken down even further for a bunch of people with real or perceived social disorders shaping the development of a mMorpg based on their own bizarre quirks.

How very un-PC of you. Handicapped lives matter 2016!

[Kreeshak]

As an i867 tank, I have no problem running with lower geared people. I want my raid group to progress as well as do well in 5 man dungeons. In fact it helps the raid the most to bring the lowest geared and thus the most need into 5 man groups.

I am really glad for you. I am a worse person than you and I probably would have picked the 860 as well. The main problem is people are dicks, myself included (I haven't done it, but I would most likely)

[Rotted]

I can understand why some people get annoyed about not being accepted into a group, take today as example, o wanted to run my normal weekly thicket to get my trinket. So I entered the lfd tool, easily 3 dozen groups going in, most are three dps looking for tanks and healers.

Now there are a few who are a dps short, so I apply them and get declined, 6 in total actually. Here's the best part I'm on 853 ilvl and its to low for each of these groups. Mythic. Non timed. 853. To low.

Anyways 7th group got in, they were all 840, the place was a breeze. But generally have to agree with others, if you keep failing just make your own

[Compstance]

The game is easy to begin with, it's a casual game, even mythic raiding. All of this "I'm better than you" bullshit is really old. You can type full sentences during gcd's and still rank. It's not difficult, so stop acting like doing what you're SUPPOSED to be doing is in anyway difficult. This pro and casual bullshit is so old in a game that literally makes you wait to do your next ability. The hardest part about this game has nothing to do with the game itself, but the people playing it. Being a good play doesn't make you an awesome person, it simply shows that you know the basics of a game.

I have no respect for anyone that plays their class well and acts like they're special. It's what you're SUPPOSED to be doing. Just because a lot of people are terrible doesn't mean you're doing anything special. Shit, you want a cookie for showing up to work on time? It's what you're supposed to do.

A good player isn't special, they're simply doing what the game requires. Get the fuck over yourselves.

[Queen of Hamsters]

It's funny because in a recent thread that talked about this very topic, all the posts leaned toward, "omg ur not entitled to a guild tank helping you! Do it urself! Don't be lazy! You don't deserve a carry from anyone!"

Now everyone is all, "Just join a guild, the super geared people will just come out and gear you no problem!"

Different experiences and values from different people. Shocker?

- - - Updated - - -

As an i867 tank, I have no problem running with lower geared people. I want my raid group to progress as well as do well in 5 man dungeons. In fact it helps the raid the most to bring the lowest geared and thus the most need into 5 man groups.

My experience as well with guild groups. But then I make a point out of joining guilds with mature members that understand that WoW isn't a personal vendor of instant gratification tailored towards them and them alone.

[Dilbon]

Maybe regular mythic should not exist at all. Make mythics exclusively timed runs and make all quests completable in heroics.

[Darkeon]

I have no interest in making groups as I lack the experience required to lead these.
I won't sit for hours, looking at a LFG tool interface, scouting and waiting to find a group willing to take me.

If there are no tools to help me out, in-game, I won't be "rising to the challenge", I'll simply unsubscribe. And that's cool with me too.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Is there some kind of SurveyMonkey thing that you have them all fill out to gauge that, or is this just something you like to say to sound special?

I lol'd, I really did. The fact that you think it's something that COULD be said to "sound special" is hilarious.

[Belloc]

Where does this belief come from? Do you have any data to support this claim? And what is stopping "skilled" players from using the vote-kick function to remove and replace players who don't match up? What is stopping "skilled" players from continuing to use LFG to make their own exclusive groups? Nothing.

This belief comes from past events. Cata 5-man heroics, for example. They were difficult and the community heavily complained. They were queuable content, and the playerbase expected to be able to complete it and a vocal enough group of them ended up getting things changed.
Personal experience? The content wasn't hard. It just required coordination -- CC, mainly. But so many people couldn't handle this... and they raged!

So, yeah, that's where that belief comes from.

You're making the flawed assumption that everyone who uses matchmaking is low-skilled. When in reality many people use matchmaking for convenience, because they have screwy schedules, or other reasons for preferring to not deal with the unnecessary time-wasting of staring at the LFG tool. Why isn't the only barrier to the content the difficulty of the content itself. Why does there even NEED to be more than that?

No, I'm not. Check the first line in that quote. "... not all people who use matchmaking have enough skill for...". I'm not saying that it's everyone. One would expect that heroic and mythic raiders use matchmaking as much as solo players or the lower-middle range players.

But there is a large amount of low-end players that rely on matchmaking for content that they can complete. The dynamic exists for a reason. Harder content requires a very slightly larger amount of effort to access. It's a natural barrier, and it works perfectly.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I live to please!

But really, saying that you don't take people on runs based on some strange "no entitlement plz" idea just sounds like you're kinda patting yourself on the back and making sure everyone else sees it, not something that you can actually gauge reasonably.

Unless, of course, you mean that the 865 Fire Mage that says "Can I join?" is really thankful and appreciative, but the 831 Rogue that says "Can I join?" is thinking that WoW is a personal gratification engine just for them.

Um... Ok? At this point I think you're making shit up and arguing with yourself, because I never put anything about "no entitlement plz" into my posts, nor did I say anything about different ilvl players and their intentions.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Maybe regular mythic should not exist at all. Make mythics exclusively timed runs and make all quests completable in heroics.

Might just be a good idea. MythicN as they are right now are not many pegs above HC in difficulty anyway.

[Snackwiches]

I tell this story every time but there were 2-3 people who wrote essays on how it was impacting their life, their health, etc, when Blizzard changed the Paladin mounts back in Wrath or Cata, I think it was Wrath.

A lot and I mean a lot of people who play this game are severely fucking warped. Especially the types who linger on the official WoW general board. There's a reason even Blizzard barely acknowledges that place.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Oh, sorry. You said "personal vendor of instant gratification tailored towards them and them alone".

Ok. Ya got me, very different. I'll write up an apology.

Yeah, and I said nothing which implies that I meant what you added about people of different ilvls... Seriously, what are you even trying at?

[Queen of Hamsters]

That part might have gone over your head, sorry. I won't ruin it for you, though.

If it "went over my head" (very few things do), it's probably because it was a thinly built strawman blowing in the wind. ^^

[Queen of Hamsters]

I tell this story every time but there were 2-3 people who wrote essays on how it was impacting their life, their health, etc, when Blizzard changed the Paladin mounts back in Wrath or Cata, I think it was Wrath.

A lot and I mean a lot of people who play this game are severely fucking warped. Especially the types who linger on the official WoW general board. There's a reason even Blizzard barely acknowledges that place.

Hehe, on one hand a guy hailed WoW for "seeing him through cancer". Later that same guy wished for all Blizzard employees to burn in hell for ruining the model of his character which had "looked the same for as long as he could remember!!!!"... <.<