Americans work 25% more than Europeans

[Deleted]

I work 50-60 hours/week easily. Then again, I work for an American multinational and the culture trickles down to the European offices as well.

And I have a daily 3h commute in total.

My most efficient days are my short days when I need to head home early for whatever. I don't believe that working 50+ hours makes me more productive than working 35-40 hours. If the company I worked for would cut 20% of all useless meetings we have, then I'd be working closer to that European average without skipping a beat.

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I applied for a job recently that has a 9-6 schedule. That's nine hours a day for a 40 hour work week. "What the hell is the extra hour for," I asked my mother, who works for the same company.

"You get an hour for lunch," she said as though she were speaking to an idiot.

"...what the hell am I going to do with an hour lunch?" Seriously, I don't know. I was lucky to squeeze in 15-20 minutes to shove microwave ramen in my mouth at my last big job. I was technically supposed to get 30 minutes, and given it was a government job it damned well should have been, but school schedules wait for no man's stomach. To the kitchen and back to the lab I went. I can't imagine sitting around doing nothing but eating for an hour.

Lunch with colleagues, talk to each other, bond, network, do brown bag meetings, anything really.

[mercutiouk]

That wasn't necessary.

They work longer for their capitalist masters. I think it was.

[Slant]

If the company I worked for would cut 20% of all useless meetings we have, then I'd be working closer to that European average without skipping a beat.

And this is why I don't take those numbers from Bloomberg seriously. I see the people working their 40 hour weeks. When they work 40h, they actually sit at the desk and do proper shit 40 hours a week. And everytime someone wants to be modern (= copy US company stuff) and have meetings and feel important, I see a guy who's not working 40h properly. I've solved more problems on 5 minute cigarette breaks with a colleague than any of those "let's have a meeting for 1.5h about this tomorrow" guys. And faster, too.

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They work longer for their capitalist masters. I think it was.

Different cultures != lack or proof of intelligence. They seem to get their shit done.

[mercutiouk]

They seem to get their shit done.

But take longer to do it. You aren't disproving my point here...

[Slant]

But take longer to do it. You aren't disproving my point here...

You don't have a point when they spit out companies like Amazon, Netflix, Google and Apple that are about to divide the internet up between them. US companies are under a lot of pressure to perform well from the stock market. European companies are usually a lot older (hundreds of years some of them) and originated in family run businesses. You can feel that. They are more relaxed and know the social responsibility to have to take care of the welfare of their workers.

Doesn't mean both sides aren't the top of the world. We're talking #1 vs #2 of the world here. This is very high class whinging.

[Deleted]

"...what the hell am I going to do with an hour lunch?" Seriously, I don't know. I was lucky to squeeze in 15-20 minutes to shove microwave ramen in my mouth at my last big job. I was technically supposed to get 30 minutes, and given it was a government job it damned well should have been, but school schedules wait for no man's stomach. To the kitchen and back to the lab I went. I can't imagine sitting around doing nothing but eating for an hour.

Yes, well... I'd say you're not supposed to spend your lunch time at work. I've even seen a few studies showing that it's better to reset your brain completely from all work related shit during the lunch break, and concentrate on something completely different. So, an hour is easily spent leaving your workstation, putting clothes on, walking/driving to wherever you want to eat lunch at (home is nice if you live close enough), then making said lunch, which might be more than just eating some shitty micro meal, then eating it, having a small break after eating, then putting your clothes back on, making your way back to work, and so on.

Of course, it's a completely foreign idea to many to actually leave the workplace instead of even just eating at your workdesk. But that all is very detrimental to your productivity. Have a 60 minute break, leave the workplace, don't think about work for an hour, have a fun, free hour of your own time, eat well, and return refreshed. That's the way I see it being supposed to be done.

Wait what?
8 hours, out of which 30 minutes can be used for breaks overhere.

Here in Finland it's typically 7.5 hours for work, which includes two 15 minute breaks during which you can do whatever you want, one in the morning before lunch, one in the afternoon. On top of that the lunch break, which is completely free time often, and the time varies typically from 30 to 60 minutes, with 60 minutes actually being the default in many collective agreements. Some places do include a fixed 30 minute lunch break and it's often like in a factory, which has it's own eatery where people go. But, as far as I know, even in those jobs, you can do whatever you want during that time.

Of course, those are based on the collective agreements we have for pretty much each field, and not all jobs follow those to the letter, so it all depends on what you sign your name on.

Here's the collective agreement for the IT field in Finland, although it's only valid until the 31st of this month, after which there'll be a new one: http://www.finlex.fi/data/tes/stes46...etopal1311.pdf

It's in Finnish though. Not sure if you can translate it somehow. Still, should give you some idea of what I mean by a collective agreement.

EDIT: Never mind, found the English version: http://teknologiateollisuus.fi/sites...-version_0.pdf

[Docturphil]

Debunked a thousand times over. Prices do not rise that much with increases in wages. If say Walmart's minimum wage was $13 an hour, the price of a box of Mac n Cheese goes up about one cent. So purchasing power goes up a lot faster than prices.

Obviously, there's a point where wage hikes are too high, but we're nowhere even close to that point.

You can't expect everyone to better themselves. Because many of them won't, and many of them can't. There aren't enough "good" jobs to do and we need the "shitty" jobs done. Sure, that burger flipper at McDonalds could go to college and get a better job, but what happens if they all do that? It's a ludicrous idea because they aren't going to, and if they did, we'd have no one to flip our burgers. So the people flipping burgers should get a wage that they can live off of without requiring government assistance.

Conservatives are always railing about government assistance, most people on welfare have full time jobs. So I find it annoying that they also argue against raising the minimum wage, which would reduce the number of people on welfare.

Now obviously skilled wages should be higher than non-skilled, and it's a historical fact that when the minimum wage rises, skilled wages raise soon after.

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It would because those people with those 32-35 hour jobs wouldn't need to get a second 32-35 hour job.

I mean if everyone makes more money, money is less valuable. It's just common sense. You don't need a degree in economics to figure that out.

Now if you raise the minimum wage not everyone is going to make more money. Like I said, raising the minimum wage is fine but only to a certain point. If you raise it too high then "better" jobs and "lesser" jobs will be to equal to the point where people will have trouble being motivated to work towards the "better" jobs which will overall create a shittier country.

I guess my point is there needs to be a balance between what you make at a McJob and what you make at a "real" job. I feel like raising the minimum wage may not be a bad idea, but $12/hour or more is probably too high. I mean I worked at McDonald's when I was 14 until I was 18. I absolutely did not deserve $12/hour for that job. It's a shit job that any monkey can do and if you're stuck doing that later in life then that is entirely your fault. You can't honestly expect me to believe that someone with at least a high school diploma can't get a job that pays $12/hour or more. People need to stop complaining about the minimum wage and instead just get out there and find a higher paying job. Literally anyone can do it.

IMO, the minimum raise should probably be raised to $9/hour at most. I guess it really depends on where you live tho.

And yeah, you're right. There aren't enough good jobs out there for everyone. That's how it's supposed to be. It's competitive. The most motivated people typically get the better jobs. That's exactly how it should be. That doesn't mean any individual can't get a good job. They just need to get dedicated and motivated.

Also, saying many people won't better themselves is correct. Saying that many of them can't tho, yeah I'm not buying that. There is plenty of opportunity in America for anyone to better themselves. It takes some extreme bad luck for that to actually be the case where they are just plain stuck. I don't think it's "many" who literally cannot better themselves. It's more like an extremely small number of people if any. Sure some people have it harder than others, but I don't believe for a second that any sort of majority of those people are incapable of significantly bettering their situation.

[Deleted]

I for one am enjoying my 7 weeks paid vacation a year.

[Mistame]

When I express my opinion on the matter, rather than educate me and win another union supporter , union members act like they are a part of an exclusive clique and choose to belittle me like I'm the enemy.

That's because a most large-shop union members are pretentious cunts. When I managed a rail yard a decade or so ago, all it took was a single flash of lighting or rumble of thunder for them to cry "mah safety" and sit on their asses for the rest of their shift. And when they did work, most of the time they were dicking around making everyone else's job harder. I had one guy in particular that would key his mic to block people on the radio. He thought it was funny right up until the night he almost got crushed by a train. But there wasn't anything anyone could do about it because "mah worker rights". About a month after I quit, they shut down, re-branded and hired a bunch of immigrants. >.<

It's because we do the same amount of work in less time than Americans.

False.

And they're still fat

Better fat than stupid.

But take longer to do it.

That you think you get the same amount done in those shorter hours indicates that you've no clue how the real world works.

Kinda is though, when you as a collective let yourself be abused and never bother to pursue better worker rights... then, well, if the shoe fits.

You're not exactly the poster child for brilliance there, kiddo.

[EternalBany]

good good..

[Rasulis]

Thank you for that. I really didn't know. That's awesome then. If I have a talk with anyone about union jobs I'll be sure to spread the word.

Most companies that employ craftsmen, and are involved in public work and public work contracts are union shops or union signatories. Most craftsmen (brick layer, plumber, welder) belong to some type of union.

The majority of public work employees also belong to union. There are exceptions, as in smaller water agencies and cities.

[Slant]

Kinda is though, when you as a collective let yourself be abused and never bother to pursue better worker rights... then, well, if the shoe fits.

Not having a choice doesn't mean you're stupid. For a child living at his parents and not having to worry about mundane things like rent and food it's easy to make these grand statements, but once you're out there, you'll learn that if you grow up in a society where it's easier to get fired than to get hired, sometimes it's not that bad to have a job working 50-60h a week.

[BreakerOfWills]

americans keep calling everyone that wants them to be paid for their time or have a real life outside of work a socialist, destroyed all the unions and let billionaires convince them that anyone who wants a payrise is a parasite.

No wonder you work more for less money.

[Faroth]

Amurican here, i work about 96-120 hours a week. i do get sleep and meal breaks though.

What the crap are you doing for a living? O_O

That's 17 hour work days 7 days a week to hit 120 hours a week.

[Karon]

What the crap are you doing for a living? O_O

That's 17 hour work days 7 days a week to hit 120 hours a week.

it's called shitposting

[Sorrior]

I mean if everyone makes more money, money is less valuable. It's just common sense. You don't need a degree in economics to figure that out.

Now if you raise the minimum wage not everyone is going to make more money. Like I said, raising the minimum wage is fine but only to a certain point. If you raise it too high then "better" jobs and "lesser" jobs will be to equal to the point where people will have trouble being motivated to work towards the "better" jobs which will overall create a shittier country.

I guess my point is there needs to be a balance between what you make at a McJob and what you make at a "real" job. I feel like raising the minimum wage may not be a bad idea, but $12/hour or more is probably too high. I mean I worked at McDonald's when I was 14 until I was 18. I absolutely did not deserve $12/hour for that job. It's a shit job that any monkey can do and if you're stuck doing that later in life then that is entirely your fault. You can't honestly expect me to believe that someone with at least a high school diploma can't get a job that pays $12/hour or more. People need to stop complaining about the minimum wage and instead just get out there and find a higher paying job. Literally anyone can do it.

IMO, the minimum raise should probably be raised to $9/hour at most. I guess it really depends on where you live tho.

And yeah, you're right. There aren't enough good jobs out there for everyone. That's how it's supposed to be. It's competitive. The most motivated people typically get the better jobs. That's exactly how it should be. That doesn't mean any individual can't get a good job. They just need to get dedicated and motivated.

Also, saying many people won't better themselves is correct. Saying that many of them can't tho, yeah I'm not buying that. There is plenty of opportunity in America for anyone to better themselves. It takes some extreme bad luck for that to actually be the case where they are just plain stuck. I don't think it's "many" who literally cannot better themselves. It's more like an extremely small number of people if any. Sure some people have it harder than others, but I don't believe for a second that any sort of majority of those people are incapable of significantly bettering their situation.

The minimum wage to afford a decent quality of life in my state is over 20 dollars... 9 just does not cut it anymore

[Masark]

I guess my point is there needs to be a balance between what you make at a McJob and what you make at a "real" job. I feel like raising the minimum wage may not be a bad idea, but $12/hour or more is probably too high. I mean I worked at McDonald's when I was 14 until I was 18. I absolutely did not deserve $12/hour for that job. It's a shit job that any monkey can do and if you're stuck doing that later in life then that is entirely your fault. You can't honestly expect me to believe that someone with at least a high school diploma can't get a job that pays $12/hour or more. People need to stop complaining about the minimum wage and instead just get out there and find a higher paying job. Literally anyone can do it.

IMO, the minimum raise should probably be raised to $9/hour at most. I guess it really depends on where you live tho.

$9 may be barely adequate in a particularly poor area of Mississippi, but not anywhere else in the USA. And in even Mississippi as a whole, the minimum living wage is about $9.80 according to MIT's model.

And this is what is meant by "minimum living wage".

The living wage model is a ‘step up’ from poverty as measured by the poverty thresholds but it is a small ‘step up’, one that accounts for only the basic needs of a family. The living wage model does not allow for what many consider the basic necessities enjoyed by many Americans. It does not budget funds for pre-prepared meals or those eaten in restaurants. It does not include money for entertainment nor does it does not allocate leisure time for unpaid vacations or holidays. Lastly, it does not provide a financial means for planning for the future through savings and investment or for the purchase of capital assets (e.g. provisions for retirement or home purchases). The living wage is the minimum income standard that, if met, draws a very fine line between the financial independence of the working poor and the need to seek out public assistance or suffer consistent and severe housing and food insecurity. In light of this fact, the living wage is perhaps better defined as a minimum subsistence wage for persons living in the United States

No entertainment, no savings, nothing put away for retirement, living entirely paycheque-to-paycheque.

[Sorrior]

$9 may be barely adequate in a particularly poor area of Mississippi, but not anywhere else in the USA. And in even Mississippi as a whole, the minimum living wage is about $9.80 according to MIT's model.

And this is what is meant by "minimum living wage".



No entertainment, no savings, nothing put away for retirement, living entirely paycheque-to-paycheque.

Yeah I still prefer the original concept of living wage which is to have one that allows savings and to better oneself and family. Ya know one that allows a middle class to flourish

[starlord]

What the crap are you doing for a living? O_O

That's 17 hour work days 7 days a week to hit 120 hours a week.

i have a 48hrs at work 48 hrs off work, with occassional 72 hr weeknds thrown in.
about half the time i am just making sure the place doesnt burn down.

[stomination]

It's un-American to have $15 minimum wage. So say the Republican Gods. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get some food stamps.

Neither party cared about it till they saw the opportunity to get votes from the 15 dollar thing.