Blizzard is a game developer, not a licensed medical professional.

[Deleted]

If everyone makes their own group there would be no groups. Bad argument is bad.

That's actually insanely bad logic. Just think about what you're saying, like really think about it and get back to me.


To the OP:
You're 100% right. Players just wanted to be lazy af and gate themselves out of content for no real good reason. I mean you can create a Mythic group with ANY item level as ANY Class/Spec with no issues. Players just can't be bothered to put the time and effort into making a group. I for sure don't want to be queued into a group with randoms for a Mythic+10...

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I don't want to make friends in this game. The community is terrible. I want to play in a world with my friends.

You're a reason this community is garbage. Like you wonder why people want to play with their friends when people like you are so common.

You assuming everybody is a toxic piece of shit is actually what's wrong with the community. You go into a group assuming everybody is an asshole as the community is terrible? Ya, GREAT way to make friends. I'm sure you're just a peach to play with? How about you get off of your throne and try speaking to people in the game? This is the EXACT reason the community is toxic now.

[Deleted]

But with raising difficulty the 'random stranger' thing just stops working.

Yeah, and the fact is, mythic dungeons aren't too difficult not to be in the dungeon finder. Heroics have a minimum ilvl requirement on the dungeon finder, so slap some shit like that on the mythics as well, and there you go. All problems solved.

[Bumbac]

Welcome to Earth. Population: animals and people. Behaviour: what OP described. It s not just in WoW or videogames in general. People are acting like this in all aspects of life: family, friends, work.
Is it a problem? Yes.
Should it be addressed to make a difference? Yes.
What happens when people start talking about it?
It becomes internet meme, people will think it is a joke and nothing will really change.
Then no wonder some people prefer to play solo.

[tikcol]

People are lazy. I've always created my own groups if I can't find a suitable group that accepts me in a short amount of time. I go from searching to creating my group in less than 5 minutes. Sometimes I don't even search.

I get my own groups going easily and without any hassle whatsoever most of the time. When problems arise, I solve them or do something different.

Most of the time the only problem I have is forcing myself to be polite when 5+ people start to /w me about how they're entitled to my group for some reason or another.

[owbu]

I remember cata so I know, why blizzard should never open up content of any difficulty to the queing system.
But I feel like it should be easy to emphasize with people, who dont like non queable content and are upset that they dont get to see the new kara. The anwser to that isnt "just play the game in a way that isnt fun to you and everything is okay!"

[Team]

A lot of people use the "I'm socially awkward IRL, I play video games so I can be myself and NOT get myself into social interactions."

Like others have said, you're playing an MMO. Just as in real life, you will meet some nutjobs, you will meet nice people, etc. You can't always be in your happy bubble, in life and in-game. Sometimes you will face things you don't want to, but you need to suck it up and face them head on. The world doesn't cater to one person, and neither should the game. There are plenty of things I may hate but guess what, you have to learn to coexist with things you hate. It's okay, it's not the end of the world.

[Deleted]

Yeah, and the fact is, mythic dungeons aren't too difficult not to be in the dungeon finder. Heroics have a minimum ilvl requirement on the dungeon finder, so slap some shit like that on the mythics as well, and there you go. All problems solved.

Never said anything against that - right now it would work fine in Mythics, but then, the problems still would be the same. As DD, you would spend much more time waiting than actually running the dungeon. There would simply be no difference between listing your group in the premade groups or clicking the join party - button in LFD.

[Deleted]

Never said anything against that - right now it would work fine in Mythics, but then, the problems still would be the same. As DD, you would spend much more time waiting than actually running the dungeon. There would simply be no difference between listing your group in the premade groups or clicking the join party - button in LFD.

Nothing would stop you from creating your mythic group just like you do it right now, with people from your friendlist, guild or chats, or by using the group finder tool, even if mythics were in the dungeon finder. You could still, as a damage dealer, create your own group if you think that would be faster than queueing in the dungeon finder. People could still make their own, completely asinine ilvl requirements for mythic groups. The only difference would be that for the rest of the people, that bullshit gating would be gone, and they would be free to use the dungeon finder.

Nothing would be taken away from people who like the way mythics are run now. Absolutely nothing. Not even the ilvl elitism.

[Deleted]

Nothing would stop you from creating your mythic group just like you do it right now, with people from your friendlist, guild or chats, or by using the group finder tool, even if mythics were in the dungeon finder. You could still, as a damage dealer, create your own group if you think that would be faster than queueing in the dungeon finder. People could still make their own, completely asinine ilvl requirements for mythic groups. The only difference would be that for the rest of the people, that bullshit gating would be gone, and they would be free to use the dungeon finder.

Nothing would be taken away from people who like the way mythics are run now. Absolutely nothing. Not even the ilvl elitism.

Yet the problem is not ilvl elitism, but low-ilvl people trying to find better equipped ones to be carried.

[Mizix]

While there are certainly a lot of irrational arguments going on, there is a valid one being made: Where is the benefit of restricting content to ONLY being accessible through pre-made groups/LFG? What is the downside of letting people use the matchmaking tool to experience content, if that's how they want to do it?

Well, Blizzard has said many times over that randomly queue-able content is tuned easier than organized/premade groups because they assume there will be less communication and coordination in LFG. The downside for mythic would be an even easier mythic because it needs tuning down to match the skill-expectations of LFG. The other possible downside would be that people won't have enough of mythic 0 and will want random matchmaking for mythic+ too, which will again result in easier runs because of Blizzard's LFG philosophy.

Another thing, people have been wanting for ages some sort of community feeling back. They have even asked Blizzard to do something to boost their community... well, this is it. Back in the days, we made friends mostly by pugging 5-man content and yes, there was here and there a bad experience but overall it was okay. The only reason Blizzard caved to LFG is that on low population servers it took ages to find a tank or an healer. If this is the case again, Blizzard should focus on encouraging people to roll a tank/healer character rather than solving the problem by bypassing the community. Those who wants to play WoW as a single-player game should really consider to quit instead of wanting to turn an MMO into a community-less experience... we have had enough of that crap, let people at least *try* to rebuild something nice before taking it away for your convenience.

[Scottyjscizzle]

If the content was difficult i might agree, but it's not feel like it's harder finding a team as a dps than it is just running the thing. It feels no different than group finder outside having to sift through the 100 groups looking for 860 ilvl "big dick dps!!" laws bro teams.

[Ishayu]

Funny thing is that creating group on finder require less effort (and even less time sometimes) that making a bitch post on forum.

INFRACTION

Imagine a world where you create a whine thread and someone creates a whine thread about your whine thread on another forum and in turn someone create a whine thread about that whine thread on yet another forum.

Would there eventually be a whine thread ultimately linked to the original whine thread on the original forum?

INFRACTION

These infractions are ****ing ridiculous.

This is a perfectly legitimate point - people are complaining about people complaining, and it's going round in circles.

What happens is what usually happens in politics - there's a group that wants a welfare system where they can be given things anonymously and take things at their own pace - no stress, and then there are people who wish to find a social group of their own and play with each other non-anonymously, and rise to greater challenges. And then these two groups start bickering in circles until both of them have lost focus on the actual issue, which is whether or not World of Warcraft is better when played socially or when you have automatic group finders.

People are NEVER EVER going to agree on this. There has never been such a huge divide in this community, and it will never, ever heal until one of the groups is pushed out.

To me, the solution is to simply segregate the two groups. They want fundamentally different experiences. That's fine, let them have that. What we need is two different servers types catering to each of these wishes. And there are so many reasons why a server type is needed here. If you want me to go through them, I will, but to most people they're quite obvious. It's about meeting people around you with similar interests, it's about the gear scaling, it's about character appearance and your prestige, it's about telling each other stories. The list of issues that rise as part of this dichotomy is as big as the list of reasons why people want vanilla servers, literally.

[Ashelorh]

If everyone makes their own group there would be no groups. Bad argument is bad.

If literally everyone made groups, then yes. But that will never happen and no one's saying that's what would fix the solution. The answer to "oh it's ridiculous they require 850 iLVL for their groups" IS making your own, only with a lower iLvl requirement. You will pick up all the people who have low iLvls too. But this is going to make it harder to succeed, and casuals don't want to put effort into the game, they just want to queue into a dungeon or raid and have geared people carry them.

[Deleted]

The list of issues that rise as part of this dichotomy is as big as the list of reasons why people want vanilla servers, literally.

Issues with creating groups would be just as bad on Vanilla servers though. I mean people would be asking for specific ilvl / gear scores for UBRS groups etc..

[Deleted]

Your argument would make sense if the game didn't already have half of its content able to be auto queued at the push of a button

Skirms, BGs, LFR, HCs, Normals, Seasonal bosses that is.

There are good arguments for why mythic+ shouldn't be queueable , but I think normal raid and mythic 0 should be queueable. They're trivially easy and are filled with people wanting boosted in 820 gear asking for 860 players to clear content that drops 850 loot.

That said, i'm not one of these people that really has a problem with joining pugs or making groups, even if I do have social anxiety.

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this isn't really relevant at all

most of the people 'moaning' about not being able to queue to everything are the casuals that log on for a 'cheeky game of warcraft' in the space between when they need to pick up the kids and when the wife comes home. Its not the guy who plays 80 hours a week.

Having to manually form teh group is good. It means you have a choice in who you bring. If people don't wanna bring you, starting your own group isn't scary or daunting.

[Deleted]

Agreed on 'make your own' mythic0 requires basically zero tactics and extremely low ilvl (800 for dps, 810-20 for tank and healer) its basically heroic with 30% more hp and damage.

No, just no. You can ignore most Mechanics if you're Group is somewhere north of 850, with the right Itemization/Secondary Stats. With low Item Levels you have to use interrupts/CC and mind the mechanics. And also be able to perform your class priority while moving around, not just turreting and tunneling on the boss with subpar DPS.

If the current iteration of mythic without keystones would be in the LFD System, at least 50% of the groups would FAIL and not down a single boss. It will be cata hc dung's all over again.

[Sliske]

No, just no. You can ignore most Mechanics if you're Group is somewhere north of 850, with the right Itemization/Secondary Stats. With low Item Levels you have to use interrupts/CC and mind the mechanics. And also be able to perform your class priority while moving around, not just turreting and tunneling on the boss with subpar DPS.

If the current iteration of mythic without keystones would be in the LFD System, at least 50% of the groups would FAIL and not down a single boss. It will be cata hc dung's all over again.

Queued to cata hcs as a tank and as a dps hunter just fine didn't have any problems. retards died sure but we just 3-4 manned bosses with ease

definitely over estimating these dungeons, you are.

[Wild]

These infractions are ****ing ridiculous.

This is a perfectly legitimate point - people are complaining about people complaining, and it's going round in circles.

What happens is what usually happens in politics - there's a group that wants a welfare system where they can be given things anonymously and take things at their own pace - no stress, and then there are people who wish to find a social group of their own and play with each other non-anonymously, and rise to greater challenges. And then these two groups start bickering in circles until both of them have lost focus on the actual issue, which is whether or not World of Warcraft is better when played socially or when you have automatic group finders.

People are NEVER EVER going to agree on this. There has never been such a huge divide in this community, and it will never, ever heal until one of the groups is pushed out.

To me, the solution is to simply segregate the two groups. They want fundamentally different experiences. That's fine, let them have that. What we need is two different servers types catering to each of these wishes. And there are so many reasons why a server type is needed here. If you want me to go through them, I will, but to most people they're quite obvious. It's about meeting people around you with similar interests, it's about the gear scaling, it's about character appearance and your prestige, it's about telling each other stories. The list of issues that rise as part of this dichotomy is as big as the list of reasons why people want vanilla servers, literally.

Yeah beardy titan walking arround infracting everyone who doesn't agree on his whine

[kary]

Queued to cata hcs as a tank and as a dps hunter just fine didn't have any problems. retards died sure but we just 3-4 manned bosses with ease

definitely over estimating these dungeons, you are.

Nah it's not that. You gotta understand that in that case you were the exception. I slogged through cata heroics as a blood dk with no cc and practically soloing a lot of encounters, too. But not everyone would be capable of doing that. Remember there are people who would die to the chains/slam combo in that blackrock caverns or w/e instance, there were people that didn't go in the prism in vortex pinnacle. People were awful back then, most didn't gear right; blizz forced you to commit to one spec then because people were generally clueless and often found themselves without core abilities at max level. I very vividly remember joining a WoTLK pug where the tank prot paladin didn't have hammer of the righteous or holy shield. I didn't understand it, but those folk existed, and they used the dungeon finder.

[Otimus]

Base mythics need to be in LFD. Not for the sake of convenience, not for the sake of poor DPS's needing groups, because if they're not, in about a year, the content is going to die, and die hard, and anyone new to the expansion is going to be stuck, or outright skipping all of them.

That, and they're just not difficult enough to warrant not being there OR being on a weekly lockout. Should just bring back needing an achievement a la WoD Heroics, and it should be fine.

But really, the more important thing is giving content legs.

I'm already seeing signs of non-Mythic+ Mythics fading into obscurity. You just overgear their base usefulness too quick, and it's only going to get worse with time. Finding any group will become pure hell because no one is even going to want to run them anymore.