Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
LastLast
  1. #41
    i was trying VB talent instead of BoW with tfoj, the numbers are good but i think you prioritize Crit stat > 27% and haste around 22% or you'll have a half second not doing anything , thanks to RNG drop my mastery is 38% ( wtf !! o0 )

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Matrlx View Post
    i was trying VB talent instead of BoW with tfoj, the numbers are good but i think you prioritize Crit stat > 27% and haste around 22% or you'll have a half second not doing anything , thanks to RNG drop my mastery is 38% ( wtf !! o0 )
    RNG appears to love mastery. Mine is around that as well, though I'm trying to build haste/crit.

  3. #43
    High Overlord Kuriyama's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Surrey, England
    Posts
    164
    Quote Originally Posted by Matrlx View Post
    i was trying VB talent instead of BoW with tfoj, the numbers are good but i think you prioritize Crit stat > 27% and haste around 22% or you'll have a half second not doing anything , thanks to RNG drop my mastery is 38% ( wtf !! o0 )
    I tried VB in HC EN on Weds night and I wanted to just Alt-F4. Although it's only an extra 2 seconds on the CD, I found the gameplay to be a lot slower and I definitely had more than half a second of not doing anything. Crit about 31% buffed and 24% haste. I prefer BoW but thought I may as well start using VB because BoW as we know it is going in 7.1...

    Don't get me wrong, the damage is fine. On single target fights I was usually top 5 and the burst is amazing. But movement fights like Ilgynoth and Cenarius.....worst raiding experience I've had so far.

  4. #44
    yea the gameplay is slow but the VB Crit was 590-650k more like i had 2 final verdicts and the numbers are higher then BoW thanks to Crit stat

  5. #45
    Pandaren Monk vep's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    1,990
    Man, you would have hung yourself had you played a ret paladin in TBC.
    And even though it's reached new heights, I rather like the restless nights. It makes me wonder, makes me think there's more to this, I'm on the brink. It's not the fear of what's beyond, it's just that I might not respond! I have an interest, almost craving, would I like to get to far in?!

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    Man, you would have hung yourself had you played a ret paladin in TBC.
    I was actually pretty okay with Ret in tBC, despite a fething awful lot of galring issues with spec back then.
    But I was a newbie back then, I didn't know nor did I care.
    So yes, current me would probably swear by Emperors Huge Most Majestic Gonads if I had to play tBC Ret now

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyons View Post
    In fairness we are probably the single most durable dps spec in PvE, as far as melee goes anyway. We can also tank for fairly long period of time if the tank dies due to a combination of Retribution buff and Eye for an Eye.

    I will quite often taunt off tanks to take pressure off. It's something most melee can't reliably do.

    Mobility still sucks balls though.
    You know I'm really enjoying Ret this expac. Reasons:

    1) I like Wake of Ashes. It's fun to use. It's animation is decent too. Could be slightly cooler IMO.
    2) I like the way BoW/BoJ/BoV looks. I know a lot of people don't think a magic sword appearing out of ground is cool, but it reminds of FFT (one of my fav games), therefore it is cool.
    3) Shield of Vengeance (I also have legendary wrists too). I thoroughly enjoy cheesing mechanics to pop this bubble for damage. I will tell my healer not to heal me in dungeons to let me proc it and my legendary all the time. Very often he won't heal me a single time in a boss fight due to both bubbles and that's me intentionally standing in shit. During high level M+ with Rot it was mandatory for me to taunt and let tank drop stacks. With these + E4E it was super easy and fun to tank bosses.
    4) Believe it or not I've come to like parts of our talent tree. I love that you can use a Zeal/BoW build, or a TFoJ/VB and both are competitive. I really like Greater Judges auto crit mechanic when world questing or in dungeons with high mastery. It's satisfying to take 70% of a targets health with your opener.
    5) I kind of really like shooting Divine Storm Tornados. I don't really know why. I do miss the old animation though.
    6) I am competitive DPS wise. Not always #1, but I'm up there.

    Now with that said there are a lot of parts I'm not keen on, but no need to go into them here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuagnon View Post
    Avenging Wrath: Cloak in light to levitate and move 30% faster. Holy Power spenders daze your enemy for 0.25 sec per holy power spent while Avenging Wrath is active.

    Justicar's Vengeance: Undodgeable and decreases the remaining cooldown of Holy Wrath by 3 sec per holy power spent.

    Retributive Justice: Temporarily bring back to life the corpses of upto 3 friendly nearby units as blessed warriors of pure light. Players brought back deal 100% additional holy damage and move 50% faster. This effect lasts 30 sec. (10 min cd, 40 yd range)

    Light's Grip: (Buff/Debuff) Become one with the light for quicker displacement. Effect duration depends on the situation. (20 sec cd, 30 yd range)

    *Increases your movement speed by 50% for 6 sec if linked with a friendly target (if buffed a friendly target). Intersection cancels the speed boost and grants both you and your friend an absorption shield equal to 5% of your health.

    *Increases your movement speed by 100% for 3 sec if linked with an enemy (if debuffed an enemy). Intersection cancels the speed boost and causes your enemy to suffer holy damage equal to 15% of your health.

    *Increases your movement speed by 75% for 6 sec if there is no target to link yourself to. (if buffed self)
    Hmmm... You bring up some ideas that I like.

    Avenging Wrath - The daze component is not ok, it really just doesn't make sense or fit. I kind of like the idea of having wings kind of making you hover. Thinking like Kayle from LoL. I could say adding 20% movespeed while active is more than fair. 30% is overkill, and while our Mobility is bad, it's also not TOO terrible.

    Justicars Vengeance - Undodgeable ok, but not necessarily as useful as you think it is, considering optimal use is during a stun, which you can't dodge during anyway. Using it outside of a stun should have some risk/reward, i.e if they dodge you don't get healed.

    I like the idea of HW cooldown reduction though. That could actually make the talent worthwhile (esp in M+). Not sure baking it into a separate talent is the way to go though (as someone stated below). Maybe have it baked into its own talent. Spending Holy Power reduces the cooldown by 2s per Holy Power Spent. 3s Could be a tad too powerful.

    Lights Grip - Brings me up to a nifty idea that I'd honestly totally support. Instead of this nonsensical GB stuff, what if we still fulfilled a "buff others" fantasy by basically picking one person in raid (another DPS, most likely melee), and linked with them (getting some kinda Tales of Xillia Vibe here) where it basically gave them might, kings and wisdom, to both of you.

    So like my brother plays a Fury Warrior. I'd pick him, we'd both deal an extra 30% holy damage on 10% of our attacks), repeatedly receive a shield that blocks x% of damage (make it block more by mastery) every 6s or so, and then it'd restore health passively.

    I don't think its any better of a solution than the shitshow we have now, but it sounds more fun to me personally to support one person than multiple, also removes some of the clunkyness of incombat buffing/blessing, having to keep track of 3 people, etc. Maybe even allow certain talents to interact with your linked partner. I.e. my DS could save my linked partner if he were to suffer a killing blow. Places DS on a significantly shorter CD than had I used it or procced it. if you pop freedom/protection/etc. grants it to them as well, etc.

  8. #48
    On the point of undodgeable JV, today I noticed that if JV is dodged twice in a row, HOPO is gone.
    Did anyone else notice similar issue?

  9. #49
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    Man, you would have hung yourself had you played a ret paladin in TBC.
    Actually, it was better during TBC. You brought actual utility to the raid.

    Granted, the DPS was average to low to make up for it and the mana issues... lol.

    Not saying it was great. But it made sense.


    You know... the thing is this would all be fine if the greater blessings weren't worthless.

  10. #50
    Epic! Ryuji's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    A place, with stuff
    Posts
    1,603
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    Actually, it was better during TBC. You brought actual utility to the raid.

    Granted, the DPS was average to low to make up for it and the mana issues... lol.

    Not saying it was great. But it made sense.


    You know... the thing is this would all be fine if the greater blessings weren't worthless.
    Yeah but on the same note, shaman totems were party buffs and you basically had your rogues, shaman and warriors in a group, maybe a Ret got to slip in sometimes, maybe. But even then playing as Ret back then was awful since you'd run out of mana mid fight and had to switch to Seal of Wisdom and RIP your DPS. It was a terrible, terrible system. :<
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakpoth View Post
    I find it unreasonable to ask for other than obvious reasons, when the reason obviously is the obvious reason.
    Armory: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch.../dalaran/ryuji

    Song that's currently stuck in my head: pretty much anything from Dance With the Dead

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Comfort Zone View Post
    The damage is there but the utility and fun factor are sorely missing.

    If you look at all the cool stuff the other classes got, and then look at our pathetic spellbook, you just feel a constant, unending pull to switch mains. My DK has undead pets and a valkyr swarming the enemy, my warrior is just a visceral whirlwind of steel and gore, my new DH is just flying all over the battlefield like a pinball, and my ret gets...a 3 second mammal to ride in battle. Not to mention, the animation for Templars Verdict is basically an auto-attack. To quote Preach, "ret always feels like you're building up to something, but that something never comes."

    The 7.1 Crusade and Blade of Wrath buffs aren't going to change shit. Why does everything have to be passive or REPLACE a button instead of ADDING to our existing rotation? FFS give us a reason to stay subbed Blizzard.
    Then reroll. It seems like you don't really like Ret, and that's OK. Every class won't be for everyone.

    I like the solid simplicity of the rotation. I don't want 20 million buttons that are required to DPS. It actually has quite a bit of depth when you get into the nitty gritty of optimizing it. Ret also has a shit ton of defensive cool-downs. Nothing feels better than popping a bubble and standing in the bad doing max DPS while everyone else is running around trying to dodge mechanics.

    I also like the martial feel of the class. I used to play a Blood DPS DK back in the day, and I liked how it was all about big strikes, not a bunch of phooey magic crap and pets. Unholy DK being the only viable DPS made me reroll to Ret. I'm glad I did.
    Last edited by Zublits; 2016-10-21 at 08:32 PM.

  12. #52
    Deleted
    Prot main here. When I play ret I do pretty decent DPS, but it doesn't feel like I am doing much damage. When I play my WW or my Outlaw Rogue there is a certain excitement to certain parts of the rotation or CDs that feel rewarding and awesome. Ret is missing that a lot I feel.
    Neither the builder nor the spender feel really great as a ret it's just a feeling of meh all the time. Even Avenging Wrath being a very strong CD doesn't feel like much if you don't spec into Crusade. Just my two cents.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by solvexx View Post
    I'm fine with how ret is, I just want long arm of the law, or emancipate back. Preferably both.
    I like where Ret is atm, but would love some more mobility.

  14. #54
    Dreadlord Vuagnon's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    multiverse
    Posts
    909
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    You know I'm really enjoying Ret this expac. Reasons:

    1) I like Wake of Ashes. It's fun to use. It's animation is decent too. Could be slightly cooler IMO.
    2) I like the way BoW/BoJ/BoV looks. I know a lot of people don't think a magic sword appearing out of ground is cool, but it reminds of FFT (one of my fav games), therefore it is cool.
    3) Shield of Vengeance (I also have legendary wrists too). I thoroughly enjoy cheesing mechanics to pop this bubble for damage. I will tell my healer not to heal me in dungeons to let me proc it and my legendary all the time. Very often he won't heal me a single time in a boss fight due to both bubbles and that's me intentionally standing in shit. During high level M+ with Rot it was mandatory for me to taunt and let tank drop stacks. With these + E4E it was super easy and fun to tank bosses.
    4) Believe it or not I've come to like parts of our talent tree. I love that you can use a Zeal/BoW build, or a TFoJ/VB and both are competitive. I really like Greater Judges auto crit mechanic when world questing or in dungeons with high mastery. It's satisfying to take 70% of a targets health with your opener.
    5) I kind of really like shooting Divine Storm Tornados. I don't really know why. I do miss the old animation though.
    6) I am competitive DPS wise. Not always #1, but I'm up there.

    Now with that said there are a lot of parts I'm not keen on, but no need to go into them here.



    Hmmm... You bring up some ideas that I like.

    Avenging Wrath - The daze component is not ok, it really just doesn't make sense or fit. I kind of like the idea of having wings kind of making you hover. Thinking like Kayle from LoL. I could say adding 20% movespeed while active is more than fair. 30% is overkill, and while our Mobility is bad, it's also not TOO terrible.

    Justicars Vengeance - Undodgeable ok, but not necessarily as useful as you think it is, considering optimal use is during a stun, which you can't dodge during anyway. Using it outside of a stun should have some risk/reward, i.e if they dodge you don't get healed.

    I like the idea of HW cooldown reduction though. That could actually make the talent worthwhile (esp in M+). Not sure baking it into a separate talent is the way to go though (as someone stated below). Maybe have it baked into its own talent. Spending Holy Power reduces the cooldown by 2s per Holy Power Spent. 3s Could be a tad too powerful.

    Lights Grip - Brings me up to a nifty idea that I'd honestly totally support. Instead of this nonsensical GB stuff, what if we still fulfilled a "buff others" fantasy by basically picking one person in raid (another DPS, most likely melee), and linked with them (getting some kinda Tales of Xillia Vibe here) where it basically gave them might, kings and wisdom, to both of you.

    So like my brother plays a Fury Warrior. I'd pick him, we'd both deal an extra 30% holy damage on 10% of our attacks), repeatedly receive a shield that blocks x% of damage (make it block more by mastery) every 6s or so, and then it'd restore health passively.

    I don't think its any better of a solution than the shitshow we have now, but it sounds more fun to me personally to support one person than multiple, also removes some of the clunkyness of incombat buffing/blessing, having to keep track of 3 people, etc. Maybe even allow certain talents to interact with your linked partner. I.e. my DS could save my linked partner if he were to suffer a killing blow. Places DS on a significantly shorter CD than had I used it or procced it. if you pop freedom/protection/etc. grants it to them as well, etc.
    Well, I think both of you have good points. I'd personally like to see the levitate effect during Avenging Wrath. At least for the visual. They don't necessarily have to buff that ability with a speed boost but having some wouldn't be bad for us. A 20% increase for 30 seconds. I don't expect them to make such a dramatic change anyway. I agree with daze not fitting at all, not only would it be op but annoying as hell in pvp.

    HW cd reduction should be baked into its own talent. 2 sec per hp spent could actually make the talent a much more valid option for pvp, rather than the ultra occassional fantasy it's right now.

    JV seriously needs to be undodgeable or at least refund hp if it's dodged. It becomes worthless in pvp against high dodge. I'd still prefer it to be flat out undodgeable. Having your 5 hp strike dodged multiple times in a row and getting killed because of that is just terrible.

    People seem not to like Divine Steed much, so I offered a different approach. A mini sprint on a moderate cd, having its effect modified depending on the situation. Not sure if it really fits the class though.

    RJ is something that would add to us. It's from the warcraft paladin's resurrection ability but with a slightly different taste. Would that make stacking Rets a must to progress? I don't know. It could be toned down or made a more situational ability if that's the case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonuts View Post
    Pretty sad when being deathgripped is my most reliable gap closer! THAT is some BS too.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by liangdar View Post
    Prot main here. When I play ret I do pretty decent DPS, but it doesn't feel like I am doing much damage. When I play my WW or my Outlaw Rogue there is a certain excitement to certain parts of the rotation or CDs that feel rewarding and awesome. Ret is missing that a lot I feel.
    Neither the builder nor the spender feel really great as a ret it's just a feeling of meh all the time. Even Avenging Wrath being a very strong CD doesn't feel like much if you don't spec into Crusade. Just my two cents.
    What do you mean crusade is one of the most powerful and exciting cds in the game
    I dont play in a hardcore no-lifer guild, but in a 2 days a week "hardcore" mythic guild.

  16. #56
    Ret feels gutted to me. It was my favorite spec back in Wrath and it seems every expansion since they've removed increasingly more from it. I don't find the playstyle particularly enjoyable anymore, it seems like all I do is spam Crusader Strike waiting for other abilities to come off of cooldown, it genuinely surprises me when people say they like it better. Maybe once you get significantly into the artifact it improves?

    So far, DK's become my new favorite.
    "We must now recognize that the greatest threat of freedom for us all is if we go back to eating ourselves out from within." - John Anderson

  17. #57
    Field Marshal borgarr's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    England
    Posts
    64
    How are you rets complaining about spell animation UH dks have the WORST spell animations in game scrouage strike is a purple fucking line on your screen Woooooo amazing... your pet you don't even notice with 10+ others on it gargoyle you don't even look at and apoc you don't see the zombies either i actually find my ret paladin animations way more interesting than my Dk

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by borgarr View Post
    How are you rets complaining about spell animation UH dks have the WORST spell animations in game scrouage strike is a purple fucking line on your screen Woooooo amazing... your pet you don't even notice with 10+ others on it gargoyle you don't even look at and apoc you don't see the zombies either i actually find my ret paladin animations way more interesting than my Dk
    What Ret animations are you talking about

  19. #59
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Ret feels gutted to me. It was my favorite spec back in Wrath and it seems every expansion since they've removed increasingly more from it. I don't find the playstyle particularly enjoyable anymore, it seems like all I do is spam Crusader Strike waiting for other abilities to come off of cooldown, it genuinely surprises me when people say they like it better. Maybe once you get significantly into the artifact it improves?

    So far, DK's become my new favorite.
    While i don't agree with the description, though i agree with the conclusion, the artifact doesn't change much of anything. You just get a 5hp generator once in a while.

  20. #60
    Deleted
    I simply don't agree with most of this thread, ret is fun and competitive. Best version of ret I've played and I've been ret since tbc.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •