[Megathread] Nintendo Switch

[Immitis]

So in the worst case, the whole portability/multi-play of the Switch will result in very low hardware AND software sales, because one of your friends already has one with the multiplayer games.

its always been that way.

[SavoirFaire]

Here is a quick summary of a Famitsu article fromm NeoGAF.

- NS is not the successor of Wii U
- NS is not backward compatible with Wii U and 3DS
- At this moment, no information on compatibility of smartphone apps can be provided

That doesn't make a lot of sense as there is literally nothing even mentioned for the Wii U after Zelda. If Nintendo can't develop for 2 systems, I can't imagine it can do so for 3. Holding out hope they are just playing things close to the vest to avoid hurting Christmas sales.

[Usagi Senshi]

Nvidia has been working on bringing desktop level graphics to laptop and mobile platform for a while, the Shield was an attempt at this.

The Switch us running a customised Tegra X2. Depending on how the processor is set up, it can theoretically disable for mobile and activate in dock, which could push the Switch to PS4 levels.

Going by the neogaf thread with the tweets of the people that have been on point leaking, the dock does indeed provide additional processing power in some form or another. I'm betting on a medium OC (or as you said, runs in normal mode in the dock and extra cooling is used and switches to little mode while on the go) while in dock mode but a double chipset would be extremely surprising (and not likely to keep costs down).

You don't make a beefy looking dock like that just for charging and TV video out. A cable could easily do those tasks.

[Deleted]

I hope you can play the handheld games on the Switch. Maybe not the 3DS games but their new handhels games.

They would maximize profit if they release a new handheld + you can play those games on the switch. People that never buy handhelds might buy their games and people like me that have a handheld but never play on it because my hands start to hurt after a while would buy so many more "3DS" games. So that should be a win / win for them.

Parents will still buy their "next handheld" because it will probably be easier to keep in pockets and so on and collectors will still buy all their crazy different color versions.

I just wanna know the specs for it when its in console mode & handheld mode. Sucks though that you cant play your old Wii U games on it but oh well. Neither can you do that with PS4 or Xbox 1.

Seems like they will release a new MK8 version as there were new stuff in that, and I hope its not for 60 dollar. Will probably do that with a lot of Wii U games. I would love to pick up Mario Maker but havent. Maybe they will release a better version.

[Unholyground]

Here is a quick summary of a Famitsu article fromm NeoGAF.

- NS is not the successor of Wii U
- NS is not backward compatible with Wii U and 3DS
- NS will be packaged with Joy-Con(L) and Joy-Con(R)
- The packaging of other accessories (like the dock) will be announced separately for different regions before launch
- Cartridge is called "Game Card" internally
- Specifications of cartridge will be announced before launch
- Battery life will be announced later. The development team aims at allowing players to play NS conveniently at places without electricity connection.
- At this moment, no information on compatibility of smartphone apps can be provided

Except that is BS and we all know it, 3DS and Wii U now have about a 2 year lifespan left if this thing takes off.

[Immitis]

The “Switch has a multitouch screen” Tweets

I am VERY confident in saying that the Nintendo Switch screen is a touch screen, but that is not core to most gameplay.

— Laura Kate Dale (@LaurakBuzz) October 20, 2016

I’ll be there for menus, for drawing, for certain games like Mario Maker port etc.

— Laura Kate Dale (@LaurakBuzz) October 20, 2016

I’m confident in saying that the Nintendo Switch’s screen is a multi-touch screen.

— Laura Kate Dale (@LaurakBuzz) October 20, 2016

As all Nintendo Switch games need to be playable with the handheld in the console dock, all Switch games will be playable without touch.

— Laura Kate Dale (@LaurakBuzz) October 20, 2016

These tweets were based on information from Source A (Nintendo). As shown above, they knew enough to know when the reveal trailer was coming before the official announcement. They know their stuff.

Additional dock power:

The “Switch dock has some additional processing power” Tweets

RE: dock, what I’ve heard is additional processing (lacking specifics atm) for when docked. However, would expect a few secs to switch.

— Laura Kate Dale (@LaurakBuzz) October 20, 2016

If there is additional processing in the dock, I would expect at least a few seconds to swap handheld to console etc.

— Laura Kate Dale (@LaurakBuzz) October 20, 2016

This information again came from sources A (Nintendo), B (Ubisoft) and D (Manufacturing). None could confirm whether the dock is a PlayStation VR-style processing box which helps power higher resolution play when docked, or if docking the console simply allows the handheld to overclock and provides better performance that way. All sources claim the hardware has an easier time running docked compared to when out and about as a portable.

Many on Twitter have drawn my attention to this interview with IGN where Nintendo state that “The dock is not the main console unit of Nintendo Switch… The main function of the Nintendo Switch Dock is to provide an output to the TV, as well as charging and providing power to the system.”

To that, I reply that they repeatedly use the words “main function” and “Main Console” here which still leaves a lot of room for clarity. I believe these statements were aimed at clarifying the Switch was not another Wii U style console rather than saying the dock won’t in any way alter game performance. You can’t play the dock without the handheld, but that doesn’t mean the dock won’t improve game performance.

Battery life:

The “Battery Life” Tweet

To those asking about battery life on Nintendo Switch, I’m hearing “mediocre” battery life.

— Laura Kate Dale (@LaurakBuzz) October 20, 2016

Source A (Nintendo) described the Switch as having a “mediocre” battery life. Source B (Ubisoft) has said a maximum battery life of three hours.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1297753

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Except that is BS and we all know it, 3DS and Wii U now have about a 2 year lifespan left if this thing takes off.

from what emily rogers said nintendo only plans limited 3ds support until 2018

[Remilia]

Nvidia has been working on bringing desktop level graphics to laptop and mobile platform for a while, the Shield was an attempt at this.

The Switch us running a customised Tegra X2. Depending on how the processor is set up, it can theoretically disable for mobile and activate in dock, which could push the Switch to PS4 levels.

Yeah no that's not happening for X2. Tegra X2 is rated up to 20W... with 2x Denver cores + 4x A57 cores, two "big" cores, or as Nvidia calls is Super.big, not big.LITTLE.
It needs WAY more than 256 Pascal cuda core to achieve PS4 levels, talking about 768-1024 cores (depending on clock speed) at the very least, and that's going to eat the power consumption like crazy. Then comes memory bandwidth where no mobile LPDDR4 is going to allow anywhere near it.

I'm not sure I buy the idea that that a 1080p panel would actually represent significantly higher power draw than a 720p panel when handling downsampled content (as a percentage of the overall battery life). Sure, there's more pixels, but wouldn't each pixel on the 720p panel be larger?

I'm no expert on how they'd fare against eachother under those specific circumstances, of course. If you have something I could read up on, I'd appreciate it.

Higher pixel count strains the GPU more even on idle. Unless the panel has a scalar to fit the rendered output, it will need to be scaled to the panel's resolution, and a scalar will add onto the power consumption, so either way it's more work somewhere. Straight up rendering at native would incur higher power usage provided the GPU usage wasn't truly maxed out to begin with at lower consumption.

I think at best it will be weaker than c box one but strong enough to get ports

If it's using a modded Tegra X1 it won't be remotely on par due to CPU and CC count.

The Tegra is meant to be energy-efficient mobile GPU, right? I can't imagine that it'll be a terribly different situation to how a lot of tablets already manage power, and they're designed to be off the power source during most of their usage.

Besides, I don't think they're really under a lot of pressure to get battery life far above, say, between 2 or 3 hours of continuous play. Especially if they're smart enough to let it charge via USB, for the sake of public areas that provide them.

NOPE. It has traditionally been the most inefficient mobile SoC of all SoCs. The only redeeming part of it is the graphical power but that's not helpful when it eats away battery.

The rumour mill going round on twitter currently is 1080p @ 60 and 30 @ 4k when docked.

Hard to get any tangible sources as Ninty won't release tech specs.

Edit: http://pastebin.com/UD1Vx9rf

This is what everyone is going off. First criticism I'd have is the 32gb hard drive. Best have micro SD support.

Yeah that ain't happening.
That spec is literally a copy paste of Tegra X1 minus the 4xA53, which is a bad thing. Monster of a power consumption for a mobile SoC that you may as well have a 15W Carrizo APU (cause they take about the same power consumption, those two). Maxwell 256CC@1000MHz isn't going to power anything at 1920x1080@60FPS let alone 3840x2160@30FPS unless it's literally potato graphics.
The Tegra X1 is 1/3rd of a GTX 950, with way less memory bandwidth and a meh CPU tacked on.

[Jester Joe]

Touch screen? So.....hearthstone.

[Poppincaps]

MAX battery life of 3 hours? That's pretty pathetic.

[Caaethil]

So they knew it would be in the video and if it doesn't hit the system all the blame needs to be on Bethesda not Nintendo.

You talk about it like Bethesda slipped it in without Nintendo noticing.

Note that they also didn't deny it. Secondly Bethesda doesn't have the right to release any sort of game line up without nintendo approval.

No, they didn't deny it. That's why I said it's not confirmed. I didn't say it isn't happening. What I'm saying is that it's rather disingenuous to show a game being played in a trailer and then say it's not confirmed. If it can't be confirmed at this time, it shouldn't have been in the reveal trailer, right?

[Jtbrig7390]

You talk about it like Bethesda slipped it in without Nintendo noticing.

No what I am saying is both knew it would be in the video and now if the game isn't on the system, that is Bethesda's fault not Nintendo.

If Bethesda has no intent to have the game on the system, then they should not have allowed Nintendo to show it.

[Unholyground]

No what I am saying is both knew it would be in the video and now if the game isn't on the system, that is Bethesda's fault not Nintendo.

If Bethesda has no intent to have the game on the system, then they should not have allowed Nintendo to show it.

The system has enough power to run it no problem.

[Remilia]

So going by zlatan (well known Anandtech developer/leaker with a flawless record).
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads...#post-38530671

Nope, sorry. It's three times slower than an Xbox One. The memory bandwidth is extremely weak compared to the standard desktop consoles. Most titles will render 504p which is the minimum requirement from Nintendo.

Still curious of the dock has extra processing power.

Nope. It has a processing unit, but only for upscaling. Otherwise 504p would be really ugly on a 4K tv.

And to be honest - i'd prefer that they shoot for Xbox One / PS4 level effects and per-pixel quality and reduce resolution rather than reduce effects and engine design.

That's impossible with a mobile product. You may achive 1.3 TFLOPS with a mobile GPU in a mobile SoC, but you can't implement the same kind of data share, bitwise and program control features what GCN have. Some very important algorithm is just one instruction on GCN, and this is super good for a console, where we can directly access the ISA. TFLOPS is a very misleading comparison for the consoles.

I don't familiar with NV planed product line. I can say that this is an SoC with a Pascal GPU. It's fast compared to other mobile products, but nowhere near as good as the Xbox One SoC. But hey, it consumes a lot less power. It is a very good product for the mobile market.

He doesn't discount possible overclocking with the dock though if they implement it.
In the end it's a let's see whatever the hell happens.

[Edge-]

''It can't be a home console because it isn't as powerful as the PS4/XBone''... best reasoning 10/10. Is it a gaming console? Check. Can you hook it up to your TV out of the box? Check. It is a home gaming console. The end.

I didn't say that at all. I said that positioning it as a home console puts it in a weaker position to the Xbox and PlayStation, especially with their hardware refreshes coming that will broaden the power divide even further.

If Nintendo wants to market what is obviously a handheld console as a home console simply because it connects to a docking station, that's fine. That's their decision. But it doesn't free them from criticism about it.

Not to mention... why the hell does it matter if it isn't as powerful?

Because it means that the likelyhood of receiving ports from games releasing on all other major platforms drops considerably, which in turn reduces its chances of moving more hardware, which makes major publishers even less inclined to support the title with exclusives/ports. Kinda like exactly what happened on the Wii/Wii U.

Nintendo hasn't directly competed with other major consoles since the Gamecube era, their audiences are widly different, ''hardcore'' players will never buy a Nintendo console, no matter how much of a beast it might be because of the ''kiddy'' image.

It worked fine for them with the Wii because they managed to successfully turn it into a "broad appeal" console that hit a ton of non-gamers who purchased the console and some first party software (Wii Fit/Sports etc.)

They didn't do that for the Splatoon, which really only ended up with the Nintendo "faithful", and we all know how that turned out. If they can't crack the "broad appeal" market again, the likelyhood of this turning into another Wii U is pretty high.

People buy Nintendo stuff because of their exclusive titles and their gimmicks.

Sometimes, but again, look at the Wii U.

PS4/Xbone are basically far inferior PC's so I don't see why that matters.

So is the Switch, though it may be more accurate to call it a "high powered" tablet depending on what the specs end up netting out as.

[Caaethil]

No what I am saying is both knew it would be in the video and now if the game isn't on the system, that is Bethesda's fault not Nintendo.

If Bethesda has no intent to have the game on the system, then they should not have allowed Nintendo to show it.

Nintendo should not have put Skyrim in the trailer if they were not 110% sure Skyrim was coming.

[Jtbrig7390]

Nintendo should not have put Skyrim in the trailer if they were not 110% sure Skyrim was coming.

And guess who allowed them to put it in the trailer. Nintendo should have said to Bethesda if its not coming to the system its not going to be in the trailer.

As it stands we don't know if it is or isn't coming to the system. We do know that Bethesda worked with Nintendo on the trailer, so they are just as much to blame if not more.

[Caaethil]

And guess who allowed them to put it in the trailer. Nintendo should have said to Bethesda if its not coming to the system its not going to be in the trailer.

As it stands we don't know if it is or isn't coming to the system. We do know that Bethesda worked with Nintendo on the trailer, so they are just as much to blame if not more.

Yes, Bethesda allowed them to put it into the trailer. But Nintendo is a big boy now and we should expect it to take responsibility for it's own trailers. If the game might not be coming, don't put the game in the video. At the end of the day it's Nintendo's trailer and it's Nintendo's responsibility if something in that trailer is misleading. They knew what they were doing.

I agree they're both to blame.

[Jtbrig7390]

Seems the Switch will support Unreal Engine 4



- - - Updated - - -

Yes, Bethesda allowed them to put it into the trailer. But Nintendo is a big boy now and we should expect it to take responsibility for it's own trailers. If the game might not be coming, don't put the game in the video. At the end of the day it's Nintendo's trailer and it's Nintendo's responsibility if something in that trailer is misleading. They knew what they were doing.

I agree they're both to blame.

Not saying its the case but if Nintendo gets told X and Bethesda does Y then that's not the fault of Nintendo.

As it stands ya both is to blame.

[Champagne Supernova]

[Caaethil]

Not saying its the case but if Nintendo gets told X and Bethesda does Y then that's not the fault of Nintendo.

As it stands ya both is to blame.

We're in agreement then. I just personally think it's pretty scummy overall. The first thing you just said is certainly not the case. Nintendo had to give Bethesda the okay in the first place and then would have reviewed it afterwards. It's not like Nintendo was powerless to stop it or just wasn't careful - they know full well what they did.

I'm certain they're 99% sure Skyrim is coming to the Switch and Bethesda just said it's not confirmed for legal reasons, but taking that risk works out pretty bad for the consumer overall. Make no mistake, I'm not saying that Skyrim isn't coming. I'm hyped as hell for Skyrim and the Switch.